Quentin Grimes is a name to watch as a potential candidate to be moved ahead of the trade deadline, according to Fred Katz of The Athletic, who hears from rival executives that the Knicks are “actively fielding offers” for the third-year wing.
As Katz notes, the Knicks have made an effort to keep Grimes out of trades talks in the past, but the 23-year-old has taken a step back this year following a strong sophomore season in 2022/23 and has moved down the depth chart due to the offseason acquisition of Donte DiVincenzo. He’s playing just 19.8 minutes per night this season after averaging 29.9 MPG a year ago.
If they move Grimes in the next few weeks, the Knicks’ preference would be to attach him to Evan Fournier‘s expiring contract to bring back a player whose salary is in the neighborhood of $20MM, give or take a few million, Katz explains. The idea would be to acquire a quality player who could help immediately and whose contract could also be used – if necessary – in a deal for a star down the road. New York’s preference would be not to part with Grimes in a trade for a player who could walk in free agency this summer, league sources tell The Athletic.
No deal involving Grimes is imminent at this point, and the Knicks could also make a move with him this summer if he’s not traded at next month’s deadline, Katz writes.
Here’s more on the Knicks:
- New York’s front office has been more interested in acquiring another ball-handler and facilitator rather than another center, according to Katz, who says the team is “increasingly optimistic” about Mitchell Robinson‘s chances of returning before the season ends — that optimism will influence how the club operates on the trade market.
- With the Knicks not necessarily hopeful that a star-caliber player who fits into their plans will be available at the deadline, their ideal target would meet the following criteria, per Katz: He’d be someone on a tradable salary who is under contract beyond this season; he’d be able to run the offense when Jalen Brunson isn’t on the floor; and he’d be someone Tom Thibodeau can trust.
- The Knicks haven’t been willing to put any unprotected first-round picks on the table in their trade talks so far, Katz reports, though they’re open to parting with protected first-rounders. New York controls four such picks from other teams, including Dallas’ top-10 protected 2024 first-rounder, which is the only one of the four likely to convey this year.
Grimes, Fournier, two unprotected picks. Or take any two picks you want. Plus a 2nd rd pick. Let’s get this over !!!!
Murray to Knicks ……
Dallas pick better than Knicks pick
Trae-Murray has not worked very well so far, why should Brunson-Murray be any different?
Hopefully we’ll get to see it. So you can see it for yourself.
Imo Brunson shares the ball more. Trae is a playmaker and shares it trying to score. Brunson has always been more a team player. It’s why he’s here. His college days prove that too. Thibs system is built off isolated plays. Works best when they share the ball. Something RJ didn’t always get. Murray can also run the team. When Brunson sits. Trae needs to score to be effective. Brunson can be more team oriented. Murray has the talent that gives him that respect from Brunson.
Really Randle is the guy that has to adjust more imo. And defensively it’s just a plug in. Knicks have highest rated team D since OG trade trade. This will only strengthen that. Murray is a Thibs kind of player (2way). And this is a 2way sport. That’s why there are rumors about Murray to Knicks.
Would Murray even start, given Katz’s comment about “able to run the offense when Jalen Brunson isn’t on the floor”?
Regardless, I think the Hawks can do better considering the interest from other teams.
The supporting cast is not the same.
Not enough for Dejounte. It would have to be closer to the Donovan Mitchell package that Utah got than Grimes & a couple of picks
That package was an overpay, and Mitchell is a better player than Dejounte. I don’t disagree that Grimes+picks is not enough, but Dejounte is not getting two starters, a recent first rounder, three picks, and two swaps in return. No shot.
So if you re-read my comment you’ll see that I said we would need something closer to the Mitchell package than Grimes and picks. But if teams don’t wanna give up a significant package for Dejounte that’s fine we can just keep him
That’s nice. Dejounte’s value isn’t worth anywhere near that either, so my point stands. It’s going to be a couple okay players and a couple picks max. Nobody is giving up a star package for him.
It was not an overpay at the time because the old cba and teams interested were willing to pay for spida.
Totally agree that it would be an over pay today because the new cba is way different.
The demand is also different.
The Knicks really bid spida and then lost the deal to the cavs when they went cheap.
No rumor has offered more than two picks. Search it……. Grimes is worth a #1 pick. Hawks only got two picks and a pick swap. So my trade is actually better than anything out there that I’ve read. And again, my first choice is DeM. And would have to come with Drummond.
Original trade ————
Hawks receive:
• Dejounte Murray
• Jock Landale
Spurs receive:
• Danilo Gallinari
• 2023 first-round pick (via Charlotte from New York, protected)
• 2025 first-round pick
• 2026 pick swap
• 2027 first-round pick
I’d be more than happy to see that deal happen, however, I don’t see Atlanta doing it unless there’s more draft picks involved.
Brogdon for Fournier & MIL 1st round pick
Brogdon would be a good fit, I agree. Fournier + Grimes works, picks to be negotiated.
I’m not a fan of rushing Mitch back. Thibs history is not good here. Mitch has been rushed before here under Thibs. And he’s shown the bad effects of that. I’d be much more interested in having him back 100%. And then given another month to get in playing shape. Rather have him next yr. Knicks can add another center at TD. Or when teams cut players or buyout players. There are rim protectors riding the bench.
There are only two names that interest me. That’s DeM and Murray. Both should be available this Feb 8. I don’t see anything coming close to those two. And Moving Randle is not going to be easy, any yr. He is not for everyone. And that’s if Knicks ever go that route. You add either DeM or Murray. And this team is deep enough to contend now and for next 5 yrs.
I don’t believe this is an issue of the Knicks rushing him back, but rather the NBA not granting the Knicks the injury exception. That has caused speculation that he can return sooner than expected.
If Katz is to believed (I’m skeptical, but this came from somewhere), then the NYK’s “ideal” candidate is basically Murray. I imagine his contract will be a tradable contract next year, although its value is not certain.
On paper, Grimes, Fournier + protected FRPs for Murray is a good deal for the NYK. I still think it’s a mistake, though, for the end product. We’ll be worse next season, assuming we do nothing else.
– Grimes is set to make 4.2 mm next season which gives the NYK some cap flexibility this off season. It’s a good year for it. At a minimum, you’re giving away use of the MLE in this deal as well as Grimes and the picks.
– For this season, we’re probably better, although it’s not a lock. Grimes is their 2nd best perimeter defender (can check 1-3) and shoots 39% from 3. Murray can only defend the point at a high level, and, based upon his history, will likely shoot around 31% the rest of the year. We have little chance of getting past BOS or MIL this year in any event.
– Going forward, we’d become one of the few NBA teams without ANY of its own 1st round picks on the roster. Those RSC’s are an important component of a team’s asset base (ask DEN, and others), because the NBA cap rules won’t permit you to pay a full rotation of players full market salaries. The FRPs we would be trading were supposed to replenish those RSC’s.
Murray starting moves Donte to bench. Where he has been more effective on Knicks. Getting DeM does the same. The SG position is the position to upgrade. Right now it seems Grimes would be better somewhere else. He has not handled the demotion well. Donte is a solid defender. So I don’t see any loss here. It’s and upgraded on the starting 5. And an upgrade on the bench. McBride and center is another matter. Knicks are better and going forward better just on building familiarity and chemistry.
If SG is the position to upgrade, then let’s go out and get a real SG. Someone currently excelling as a 2-way player as a SG (in between a guy like Brunson and one like Anunoby).
On paper, Murray upgrades the starting 5. But I’m more focused on the finishing 5. I don’t like two small guards at the end of games. I do like the 3 man rotation we have at SG (DiV/ Hart/ Grimes) because we can finish with any one of the 3 as the 5th member. Lately, its been Hart, where he’s won games for us late with his defense usually on the big G’s or SF’s (when OG switches). We also have floor spacing options with Grimes and DiV.
In light Murray’s defensive struggles against bigger perimeter players, and his pedestrian distance shooting, are you SURE he’s an upgrade from what we have? Trading all these FRPs, it’s got to more than a guess.
I don’t know that I’d call 39% from 3 on six attempts per game “pedestrian” (though, yes, he hasn’t shown that in the past), but otherwise it’s a well-thought-out analysis. Murray isn’t likely to be anywhere near as bad defensively as a Donovan Mitchell or DDR/Brunson backcourt would be, but his offensive fit would also be much more questionable. If he showed the defensive performance that he had in San Antonio two seasons ago, where he was averaging over 8 rebounds and 2 steals a game on top of his contest numbers, it would be a different story. I’m also not a fan of how much he tends to turn over the ball as a SG.
The problem then becomes, who do you trade for instead? I like this Knicks team a lot, but I don’t see them beating the Bucks or Celtics as currently constructed. Not with Randle as their #2. He’s just worse in the playoffs. Most available upgrades either overlap with Randle or Brunson, or cost a ton. I guess you could go for a smaller upgrade and get someone like Kuzma to play the 3 and play Anunoby at the 2, but does that even move the needle that much?
Murray coming into the year was a 34% 3 pt shooter career-wise, which was also his % last year. There’s no upward trend line here to suggest he’ll finish the year much above 35%. A breakdown of his 3 pt makes and misses also suggests regression is likely over the second half of the year. Even if he finishes at 36%, that would mean he’ll be below 35% the balance of the year (that’s below league average, all positions, and he’s playing SHOOTING guard). So, we upgrade at SG, and get worse from 3 pt range.
Murray is very good defender, and can be better than that against similar sized players, but is worse than that against bigger wing guys. Of course, Murray-Brunson would make a much better defensive backcourt than Mitchell-Brunson. But our baseline is the defense played by Hart/Grimes/DiV – Brunson. So, we acquire a defensive ace, and get worse defensively.
Maybe the answer is not to make any deal. I agree that the NYK aren’t getting by either BOS or MIL right now, but that’s not going to change due to any trade they might make. Trades – because its inherently a give to get – are mostly about (improving) “fit” not (upgrading) overall “talent”. Of course, sometimes trades will upgrade a team’s talent (but that’s more about present talent vs projected future, than a true anticipation that one team is bargaining for a long term talent downgrade). Point is there should never be an assumption that you can truly upgrade your talent via trade.
Murray isn’t small (maybe small-ish? Lol), and his wingspan makes up for any of those “issues,” along with his hard to find disruption numbers.
I think what people are discounting is that it is probably very hard to play with Trae Young, as year in, year out, you can pencil in Harden, Trae, and Luka at any combo of 1 2 3 in the “ball hog” stats (time of possession, minutes per handling, etc.).
So you’re GONNA lose something in your play when on the floor with a guy like Trae– regardless or not it’s warranted that he controls the ball,shots, etc., or not.
I believe on a more unselfish TEAM like these Knicks, and playing for a more old school, maybe even quote hard-nosed coach like Thibs, we will sew more of the Coach Pop/Spurs version of Murray, who is also on a pretty nice contract when considering the rest of the NBA and some of their just….ludicrous contracts lol
Depending on the cost (as with any trade really), I may be inclined to put Murray at the top of the proverbial wish list
He’s 180 lbs. Length is great, but size is also about body mass. The proof is in what transpires on the court, not the weight room. Don’t believe me, believe Mathurin:
link to espn.com
It’s not Murray’s fault, it’s just that he’s not built to play a guy built like him. Small guards get attacked physically by bigger ones late in games, when teams try to exploit matchups. Guard mis-matches are the easiest to exploit.
I agree that Trae is difficult to play with regardless. But Murray has more than just the general issue his other teammates have. Trae puts Murray out of position (true position, not just the letters after his name) where his unique strength (defense) gets neutralized, and his weaknesses (shooting) get exposed. Murray had one dominant game (half really) against the Knicks last year. He destroyed them. It happened after TY went out with an injury in the first half. Brunson is a better all around player than TY, but, unless Brunson is out of the game, Murray will be in the same position on the defensive end that he is now.
Seriously you don’t think he’s an upgrade. Look I’m looking at what Knicks FO are looking at. Thibs loves these kind of players.
82% FT, 38% 3PT, 47% FG …….
He’s got a handle so can play in Thibs system. He’s easily a 20 pt scorer. He’s not a guy who forces shots. I can only believe that they want him cause of fit. He can create his own shot if need be. He can run team. We need ast guys on offense. He’s a better fit than RJ. And is a solid defender. On this team he will be elite defender. That’s what they see imo.
I agree for most part. Plus most important he’s on same timeline as our core players. I definitely do it. Cause there is no other player out there as good we can get. Or is available. Doesn’t seem they want DeM.
I can get you plenty guys his mass. He’s tough despite it. That should tell you something. Can always add some muscle. He’s bigger than Reggie Miller.
A Murray for Grimes swap is certainly a talent upgrade. I just fear it won’t be the kind of fit that allows us to leverage that upgrade. Yes, the FO seems intrigued by the fit, because they’d like a third guy who can create his own shot late in games, and that’s obviously a good thing in and of itself. But the FO is also talking about a contract they can trade next year, so maybe they’re not 100% sold on it either.
Miller was a couple of inches taller, 6’7, 185, and wasn’t a great defender. McKey got the Jordan matchup.
Free Fournier.
Free Wiseman
The NYK can trade for DeRozan. They can tarde for Murray. They can do whatever they want, but they ain’t winning nothing.
Just like those sorry teams with Starks and Anthony Mason.
Same movie, already watched it.
I’d love Murray, I think he can resemble more of his Spurs self under Thibs,and GD if he wouldn’t have prob secured us a win last night vs Orlando, with Brunson out (I like Deuce, but him “full time,” with only Flynn behind him? Huge downgrade).
That said, I think it took all of game 10 for me to be screaming about acquiring Tyus Jones from the hapless wizards. Talk about a TRUSTED/TRUSTWORTHY backup floor General, someone who can virtually play with any other 4 guys on the court at any time, and someone whom I think Thibs would absolutely fall in love with, what with his continual league leading Assist/TO ratio, 100% effort, and professionalism all the time
Murray at 6’4 or 6’3 should be playing PG not SG. He was always a PG until Atlanta and it didn’t work next to Trae. Case closed. Evan Fournier and picks for either Keldon Johnson, Heild or fan favorite Tim Hardaway is more realistic. Grimes, Fournier and picks isn’t enough but who knows Atlanta management usually makes the wrong choice. Wilkins for Manning