After his Hawks lost the Eastern Conference Finals to the Bucks in six games, power forward John Collins addressed his impending restricted free agency with reporters, tweets Michael Scotto of HoopsHype.
“It’s something that I feel like I’ve voiced my opinion about a lot, saying that I want to be here,” Collins said. “We’re going to have to come to a decision very soon, but hopefully, the best one for me is the one that keeps me here.” The Hawks have the right to match any offer tendered to Collins by a rival team in restricted free agency.
Collins was the No. 19 selection out of Wake Forest in the 2017 draft, and should be in line for a significant pay raise after four solid seasons for the Hawks. During the 2020/21 regular season, Collins averaged 17.6 PPG and 7.4 RPG, with a shooting line of .556/.399/.833. In 18 playoff games with Atlanta this season, the 23-year-old averaged 13.9 PPG and 8.7 RPG, while connecting on 54.9% of his shots from the field and 35.7% of his 3.1 three-point attempts a night.
There’s more out of the East:
- Clubs with depth have been rewarded with extended success in this year’s playoffs, writes Chase Hughes of NBC Sports Washington. Hughes posits that the Wizards will need to shore up their roster around stars Bradley Beal and Russell Westbrook to move past the first round in future postseasons. Hughes notes just how much the Wizards depended on Beal for wins this season, as the club went 2-10 when the All-Star guard sat. Washington should look to add depth specifically on the wing, Hughes opines.
- Pacers assistant coach Calbert Cheaney appears likely to return as an assistant under the regime of new Indiana head coach Rick Carlisle, writes J. Michael of the Indy Star. Cheaney was first hired as part of former coach Nate Bjorkgren‘s staff ahead of the 2020/21 season.
- It became clear that the Knicks lacked a starting point guard in their first-round playoff series against the Hawks. Steve Popper of Newsday explores how New York could upgrade the position in the offseason. Free agent veterans like Kyle Lowry, Spencer Dinwiddie, and Mike Conley could all be viable options.
John is definitely 1 of the best young forwards in the league. I love that he finally got to play on national TV so more people could get to see his talent. Obv the majority are still slow to realize how good he is but real 1s have known for years that John is a big time player. He’ll most likely be an Atlanta Hawk for yrs to come but Sacramento (Bagley, Delon plus #9 overall) & Denver (Gordon plus Bol/Nnaji/Howard & multiple 1sts) could make a strong s&t offer for him
I’d take either one of those offers. Hunter can easily slide to the 4 and Reddish should be starting at the 3 next year. Put a package together for a better backcourt player (Brogdon or McCollum) and the Hawks could be even better. JC is great but he struggled in the playoffs. Especially without Trae to feed him lobs.
Id much rather Dre stay at the 3 & Cam playing more as a 2guard. Those 2 guys were our starting wings this yr until injuries cut them down. They should be our starting wings next season & for the foreseeable future. Bogdan is the perfect guy to run the 2nd unit & he should be a strong 6MOY candidate next season. Kev is another guy who should give us double digits & deadly shooting off the bench. Our backcourt is very deep & talented already I def don’t see a need to give up assets to add someone as expensive as CJ. Brandon Goodwin played great when Trae was hurt during the season & we also have Kris Dunn & Skylar Mays. Lou probably won’t be back unless he’s willing to take a pay cut but former top5 picks like Exum & DSJ will also be available for much cheaper than Brogdon or CJ
“In 18 playoff games with Atlanta this season, the 23-year-old averaged 13.9 PPG and 8.7 RPG, while connecting on 54.9% of his shots from the field and 35.7% of his 3.1 three-point attempts a night.”
Those are solid numbers. But not star numbers. He’s still young and can still get better. He’s not really a big PF. Gallinari is bigger than him. Personally I believe he’s a great piece to trade now. While his value is high. Okongwu is a real PF who may have a better future. And he can step right in and start. Hawks are in a good position to upgrade. After a very good yr. I’d be looking at Zach or Beal. Zach for his age is probably the best fit.
For a guy in his 1st playoffs he played really well overall. He’s very efficient offensively & if he was the #1 option like earlier in his career he would be putting up all-star type #s. But the Hawks have numerous scorers now & John isn’t gonna avg big #s like he would elsewhere. He’s still extremely important for us tho & he was a huge factor in us slowing down Julius Randle & Ben Simmons so much. Plus he fits our team extremely well. Only maybe Aaron Gordon fits us better as far as an available big forward but even that’s debatable. Okongwu is 1 of the guys I’m most excited about on the team but he’s never a power forward. He’s very much a 5 & only a 5. There’s a reason he played only at 5 all yr long (& all last yr at USC). He’s not only a 5, he’s very much a prototypical 5 in today’s game. Soon we’ll have a decision to make about what to do about O & Clint playing the same position but I don’t see that being an issue until Clint is up for an extension. O def can’t play 4 for us tho, if we don’t resign John then we’d need someone to take his place. Us getting Gordon from Denver, Bagley from Sac or something like that would be the only way the Hawks would let John go… As far as Zach & Brad Beal, both those guys are incredible scorers no doubt. The Hawks don’t need more scorers tho. Giving up young talented guys to a division rival just to put more scoring next to Trae Young doesn’t make sense fr. Keeping all our guys & giving a big ($80M/4yrs) offer sheet to Duncan Robinson makes way more sense. That way we’re weakening a division rival not strengthening 1
Born: December 11, 2000 (age 20 years), Los Angeles, CA
NBA draft: 2020 / Round: 1 / Pick: 6th overall
Current team: Atlanta Hawks (#17 / Power forward, Center)
Playing career: 2020–present
Listed height: 6 ft 8 in (2.03 m)
Listed weight: 235 lb (107 kg)
At 6’ 8” he’s a PF in NBA. He’s got reach which helps him be a shot blocker. He won’t last as a center with 7’ 270 LBs real centers. I believe he’s got a great future as a PF. He’s a good tandem with Capela. No need to keep Collins and pay him when you have this guy. Timing is everything in life. Hawks in great position to get an allstar.
Lol there’s no need to copy & paste when you actually watch the games. You’ve never in your life seen Onyeka Okongwu play 4 bc he’s always at the 5. He’s same size as Bam Adebayo was as a rookie & has even compared himself to Bam numerous times. You’ve never seen Bam play the 4 & you’ll never see O play 4 either. They’re both prototypical 5s. If you think O has a future as a 4 that tells me you haven’t seen O play much & don’t know his game very well or you don’t fully understand the basic differences in the 4 position & the 5. O is VERY good at the things 5s do & below average at what 4s do. His future is obv at 5, just like James Wiseman. You say “real” 7′ bigs will make O unplayable smh i gotta wonder if you saw any of the Atl/Phi or Atl/Mil series. He stood tall vs Embiid & Giannis & he played Brook Lopez as well or better than Clint did. O is just CLEARLY a much different type of player than John is to the point that I shouldn’t even have to explain it lol I mean we can start with the fact that John has knocked down over 140 treys on a better than 40% clip over the past 2yrs while O hasn’t taken a 3 in his career
He’s decent, but not max worthy like some reports are stating he’s looking for. He still has much to prove.
Hes a legit 20/10 guy, 40% from trey, can score from all 3 levels, 1 of the best young forwards in the league. If you don’t have a top5 power forward then he’s worth whatever it takes to get him on your team.
Collins is one of toughest guys to value in the league, IMO.
If you just look at his stats and age, hovering around 20/10 and 40% from 3 while only 23 yrs old, I don’t think it’s crazy to say he’s a max guy.
But then if you watch him play—he’s a little undersized, which hurts him defensively, and he scores almost exclusively off put-backs, rolls, and spot-up 3’s. ie. He doesn’t create anything offensively.
So I think that’s where I would hesitate giving him the max—if I’m Atlanta, ideally I want my other max slot to go to a guy who can create a shot consistently to take some pressure off Trae.
And like others have said, Atlanta has Bogdan, Reddish, Hunter, Huerter, Gallo all playing the wing positions between Trae and Clint. I might be inclined to let Collins leave now to ensure that I can afford to keep those pieces moving forward.
Watching him play is actually the easiest way to see how valuable he is to the Hawks. Tbh for Hawks fans it’s pretty ridiculous to even consider letting John walk. He was suspended for 25gms early last season & the Hawks won 2 of those games. We literally play better without Trae than we do without John. We have zero guys on our roster that play like him. He complements Trae’s game perfectly as far as being extremely effective in the picknroll/picknpop game. He definitely can create offense & often does as the only real post up scorer on our team. If you haven’t seen John creating offense as a great 2nd option to Trae idk what u been seeing from him the past 3yrs. You can isolate him on the post, feed him & the Hawks OFTEN do. He’s very efficient down there as well as being a willing passer. He’s also a great teammate & leader. The boy oozes positivity & has shown a willingness to sacrifice for the squad. If any team in the league is willing to pay him the max then so is ATL. And I strongly suspect that there are multiple teams willing to do so
Sure, he’s a decent post player. So how many of those guys are getting max contracts these days?
The problem for Collins is he’s a below average distributor and doesn’t have much of a game off the dribble. So even IF he’s killing you in the post—it’s a pretty easy fix. Put a bigger guy on him, because A) Collins isn’t that big, and B) he won’t be nearly efficient taking you off the dribble.
But I still think he’s a very valuable player, I just don’t think he’s a max guy.
And if you think Atlanta can pay him and Trae max deals, well, hold on, let’s do some quick math.
Clint-18M in 2022-23
Bogdan-18M in 2022-23
+ max contract for Trae which will be 30M+
+ max contract for Collins which will be 30M+
So, conservatively, 60m for Trae and John, then 36m for Bogdan and Clint, that’s 96m of a 112m cap for 4 guys. You don’t even have a starting five and you have 16m left pre-tax to fill out the 5-12 spots. So those 7 guys are going to have to settle for about 2.2M per season? Rookie salaries are already 3x more than that, so you’re going to be looking at the hard cap just to get to a 12 man roster.
Finally, this team—as good as it was this postseason—probably isn’t a true contender as is? I mean, maybe it is, but we said the same thing about Miami last year … last two seasons have been weird man, you sure you’re locking in this roster right now?
Or do you want to have maximum flexibility around Trae moving forward, who, I don’t know, just basically proved he’s one of the top 10-12 players in the league this playoffs?
Scoring in the post is just 1 of many ways that John can score. He is murder in transition. He’s 1 of the very best in the league as a roll man in picknroll. He’s also a great spot up shooter from trey. He’s also a very good offensive rebounder. John is extremely versatile, extremely efficient & extremely productive offensively. And he’s just 24. How many guys you know like that? He’s actually pretty good off the dribble too lol but we don’t even need that bc we have an extremely ball dominant pg plus numerous other guys who can create off the dribble.. as far as the $, when Trae & Kevin Huerters contracts kick in we will definitely be an over the cap team. We may or may not be a luxury tax paying team but we’ll definitely be able to pay all our guys with zero problem lol. Clint, Bogdan, Trae & John will be around $96M like you said. However the cap will be at $118M at that time, not $112M like it is now. Say we pay Kev $15M per, that puts our team salary at $109M. Dre, Cam & Okongwu will all be on their rookie contracts making somewhere be $20-25M combined. That’s around $130M for our core, highest paid 8 guys. The luxury tax this yr was $133M & will be higher 2yrs from now when Trae’s $ kicks in. We’ll be near the luxury tax but nowhere near the hard cap meaning we would still have plenty of flexibility. And I’d definitely rather have maximum talent than maximum flexibility anyway. This team is much more than just a contender, they are set up to be a dynasty
You are higher on John Collins than anyone I’ve read or met by a large margin, and I’m someone who is actually a fan of John Collins. But OK—I’ll live in your world where John Collins is a top 20 player for the moment.
Yet you’re still just flat out wrong about the salary though. First of all, the assumption of 118m is optimistic at best. TV ratings for the NBA have been rocky of late. Also 96m is again CONSERVATIVE for those 4 guys. Could easily crack 100m depending on how far you want to go for John and Trae.
Sounds like you want to go all the way, after all your description of Collins makes him out to basically be Karl Malone, right? Ok then. Well, Donovan Mitchell for example will be making 37m at his peak. Let’s give your boys Trae and John 35m each—since they’re dynastic. That puts you at 106m NOT 96m for those 4 now.
In addition, Reddish and Hunter aren’t on perpetual rookie contracts as you seem to think. They’re both options for 22-23—AKA Atlanta will HAVE to extend them at higher numbers next summer, or risk losing them. What do you think starting level young wings go for on the market? At MINIMUM they’ll be at 15m each. That’s another 30m. Now you’re at anywhere between 126m (conservative) and 136m (realistic) to keep: Trae John Clint Bogdan Hunter and Cam. That’s 1/2 a roster not counting IR guys you HAVE to have.
The hard cap this year, according to this site, was 138m. If you give your boys Trae and John their max contracts (35m per) keep Bogdan and Clint (18m per) at extend Cam and Hunter at REASONABLE rates of (15m per) you would need the hard cap to rise 10m by 2023 to even have a chance at filling out the dam roster.
You better hope that’s a dynastic team. Because your franchise will be paying millions and millions in luxury tax to finance it.
We definitely can pay John while also paying Trae, Dre, Cam, Kev, Bogdan, Gallo. Hawks are good as far as the cap rn, ppl should understand this lol. Gallo is currently our highest paid player. Next season is the last guaranteed yr on his contract. So Gallo won’t even be a factor by the time Trae & Kevin Huerters big contracts kick in. The 1st time we’ll have to make hard decisions about our young core will be when Dre & Cam hit free agency. That’s 2 seasons from now. For now keeping John is a no brainer unless some team like Denver or Sacramento blow us away with a trade proposal
A legit 20/10 guy who’s done it only once in his 4 years on a crap team during a pandemic shortened season in which only half the games he played (~40). He’s also injury prone – has only played more than 70 games once, and he’s young.
Those numbers (or lack thereof) in my opinion do not constitute a max contract. Your argument is based on potential that hasn’t been realized…yet. I’m not saying he can’t, but right now his juice isn’t worth that much (max) squeeze.
Smh your facts are wrong, your logic is warped & it’s obv that you lack anything beyond a surface level understanding of NBA basketball tbh. John averaged 20/10 for a complete season twice in his 4yr career. 1 of the 2 true things you said was that the team sucked. That’s true, but it’s also true that they were much better with him on the court. He’s definitely not injury prone tho. He’s had 1 semi serious injury in his 4yr career. He missed 1/8 of this season with an ankle injury but he didn’t miss any playoff games & other than an injury in his 2nd season he hasn’t missed much time for injuries at all in his career… The 2nd & final thing you said that was true was that John is young. Yea that’s a main reason he’s gonna get so much $. Whoever signs him is gonna have him on their team for his entire prime. And it’s not far from just blind faith in his potential. The kid has done huge #s in his career so far, he’s got 4000pts 2000rebs already, he’s always 1 of the highest in the league in PER for forwards, he’s made over 200treys already. He was huge in the Hawks winning 2 playoff series just now… I’ll just break it down like this tho, think if John was white how much you would love him & try to watch him thru that lense
Only once has he averaged 20/10 – it’s a fact, and nonetheless in a shortened half season. He has never played a full season – it’s a fact. Your assessment is your assessment, however your approach and tact is childish and uneducated. Bringing up race as an excuse is even more disturbing.
Carry on spinning off the planet. Best of luck to you.
Serious question: Are you John Collins? No offense if you are. Just curious.
John Collins was 32nd in PER and 45th in BPM and 29 in Win Shares and 47th in VORP this season.
These are four of the best metrics we have to measure a guy’s overall impact in the league. Collins does not crack the top 25 in ONE of them. His similarity scores thru 3 seasons are Vin Baker, Shane Battier, and Christian Laetner lmaoooo
You’re lecturing people as if you have all the answers yet if seems to me that you’re little
more than a biased Hawks fan with a rudimentary grasp on the metrics that have transformed the league over the last 15 years.
I like the Knicks man. Yet I’m not over here telling people RJ Barrett is an All NBA player. Get a grip.
I like Collins game as he plays with a but of edge and nastiness. Hes aggressive on the boards which I like and plays nice defense. I don’t think they look for him enough on offense and I don’t think he takes the rock on his own enough. With that being said I would offer him big money if i was a team looking for a guy on the cusp of greatness.
It’s gonna take more than offering John a big contract to get him away from Atl. Any team that truly wants him is gonna have to offer the Hawks significant assets to convince them not to match any offer sheet that he agrees too. Denver & Sacramento (as I previously said) would be 2 main teams that could possibly meet that criteria
If he signs an offer sheet, Atlanta has to decide whether they match it or not. And that’s it. There are no assets involved whatsoever. So it basically boils down to whether they are comfortable giving him a max or not. I guess they will have to.
Ever heard of a sign and trade? I mean, that’s how Bogi was supposed to end up in Milwaukee…
Once a player signs an offer sheet, he can no longer be signed and traded. In theory, a restricted free agent can be signed and traded before signing any offer sheet, but there are several reasons that makes it very unlikely. (To start with, if teams suspect the Hawks don’t want to pay Collins, why would they offer anything?). Most probably Collins will receive a very generous offer sheet and Atlanta will have to decide whether they match or not. And that will be it.
There’s gonna be negotiations going on bw John’s agent & numerous teams. Every team should know that the Hawks aren’t just gonna let John walk. They’re gonna have to give up assets to ensure that they can actually have John on their team next yr if he agrees to their offer sheet. if a team like Denver is interested in John they would 1st have to convince him to wanna play there. He may or may not tbh, but if he does then next step would be to negotiate compensation for the Hawks so they don’t match. Aaron Gordon, some combination of Nnaji/Howard/Bol/Dozier plus a few 1sts is ballpark of what could probably satisfy the Hawks. Free agency is a good deal more nuanced than you seem to understand
Once again, “if he agrees to their offer sheet”, Atlanta can only match it or let him go. They wouldn’t have any leverage at that point.
He doesn’t get it.
They literally have ALL of the leverage at that point. It’s their decision whether to match the offer & keep him or to let him walk. The team that he signed the offer sheet with will in this case be forced to offer the Hawks assets for John or the Hawks will just match the offer & keep him. Usually these negotiations take place before the offer sheet is even signed
No. If Atlanta matches the offer sheet, they cannot trade Collins until January (and they cannot trade him to the team that extended the offer sheet for a whole year). So they don’t have any leverage at all: either they match the offer sheet and keep Collins, or they let him go. And assets cannot (as you seem to suggest) be transferred “under the table”: I give you this and that and then you don’t match. It doesn’t work like that.
Lol I’ma guess you failed reading comprehension
Before you take folks for not being able to “read,” perhaps you should learn how to write. You continue to state once an offer sheet has been signed, yet reference that negotiations take place before it’s signed.
It doesn’t work that way if those reading what you wrote take it literally – the way you wrote it. This, you failed to correctly communicate or convey what you were trying to state.
The signing team also has to have cap space. That’s why most restricted free agents leave in a sign and trade. The Hawks were convinced Sacramento would match Bogdan and would have to send compensation, but that’s why they’re the Kings. Same thing with Gordon Hayward, the Celtics overplayed their hand.
I don’t think the statement “most restricted free agents leave in a sign and trade” is accurate at all. Gordon Hayward was unrestricted after declining his player option.
“Any team that truly wants him is gonna have to offer the Hawks significant assets to convince them not to match any offer sheet that he agrees to.”
What are you talking about? Do you not understand how this all works? If Collins signs with another team Atlanta can choose to match it or let him walk. No other team can offer the Hawks “assets” to change their mind.
Smh… have you never heard of the concept of a sign & trade? Did yall just start following the NBA a couple months ago? Christian Wood used to play for the Pistons, who’s old enough to remember back that far?? He was sent to Houston in a sign & trade that sent back the draft pick that was later used to pick Isaiah Stewart. Ima just guess that yall don’t know who Malcolm Brogdon is but he’s a really good guard in the NBA. Brogdon was a restricted free agent for Milwaukee but they didn’t have room to resign him so they signed & traded him to Indiana. Pay attention guys this same stuff happens every year
Even when Lebron went to Miami, sign and trade. The Hayward signing was flukey last year and Boston was killed for not getting anything in return.
LeBron was unrestricted, just as Hayward.
@j-butte… BOS got a lot for Hayward… not what they should but they got a lot for him, so BOS got killed for gettin’ the wrong package for him, not for gettin’ nothin’ for him, & BTW he was an UFA, S & T with RFA… kind of doesn’t work much, really!
I just explained how it works in detail with multiple examples of it happening recently. Also what is the point of the multiple usernames? You really make yourself look pathetic when u do that smh
WRONG times 3. Wood was a UFA not an RFA, and the 1st that went to DET had nothing to do Wood, it was part of a draft night trade whereby DET got the 1st for eating Ariza’s salary and sending a future 1st to HOU. The draft night deal and the later Wood’s FA signing (recast as a S&T), along with other transactions, were later rolled into a larger transaction. MIL (obviously) had room to sign Brogdon since they did a S&T (teams don’t get extra room to do S&Ts). At least Brogdon was an RFA, and the ONLY one I can think of that moved teams via S&T to prevent the existing team from matching. But it’s a rare exception, and, based on the facts there, it’s one that proves the rule.
I can’t believe I had to go to this level, smh. Direct quote about restricted free agency…
“However, because the original team starts out as the player’s current contract holder, the team can offer the player more money per year than any other team, and, can sign the player to a longer-lasting contract—per the league’s CBA. Therefore, it is in the player’s economic best interests to get the richest/longest deal possible by re-signing with the current team, then be traded to the new team—which, under NBA rules, will be obligated to honor the newly signed contract’s terms—rather than pursue outright free agency, alone. The player’s original team will receive players, cash, and/or (future) draft picks in return for the departing player, depending on the terms of the trade.”
WRONG. I can’t believe anyone would cut and paste a quote that’s completely inaccurate. It was either written before the 2017 CBA, or by an idiot, or both. Players can no longer get the benefits of the better contract terms that can only be offered by their existing teams if they move via S&T.
The quote is from Wikipedia. This is the level he had to go to.
Washington probably won’t even reach the first round, let alone move past it in future postseasons.
Do t get the hate on Westbrook. Harden ran him off too. Ran off CP3 too. You just hate guys Harden Ran off. What’s that about lol.
Knicks have $51.3 million cap room.
How many Knicks they want to get rid of?
Rose
Bullock
Burks
Noel
Payton
If keep Rose and Bullocks $25m, they have 26m to sign Lowry
That is downgraded
Burks, Noel and Payton are good
Salary cap $112 million, scary low.
Mavs, Knicks and Heat have no cap room
to sign Kelly Oubre
If sign Oubre, they are huge downgraded because they need to get rid of own free agents
Knicks need to be careful
If they let Burks, Noel and Payton walk for nothing, they can go down from 4th seed to 8th seed
Which means Pacers, Celtics and Heat win more games than Knicks
I think the Knicks biggest worry is Randle repeating this outlier season.
Can’t get anything by Popper. PG is Rose’s threshold issue this off season, and his biggest challenge since taking the job. It likely needs be resolved in FA. Never the best place to be. But there are enough possibilities.
Knicks are a young team. We are not winning anything next yr. Best route is to add young vet players. That make us better and deeper. And build from that. PG has been an issue before Thibs. After one yr, we can’t expect miracles. No to 35yr olds. No to trades that we give up everything. There are PGs available that help us now and for the near future. Dinwiddie is a FA (no to overpay). There are PGs that can become available. Ball, Rozier, Dragic, Nunn, Graham. All are an upgrade for us. But like I’ve been saying for yrs. Why give up assets when we can just sign Dinwiddie. Knicks got more money than any Franchise. Dolan don’t care about No Cap. With Rose as backup even Frank for D, let Payton walk. You can even rebuild Frank’s career. Dinwiddie and Rose is a solid PG rotation. A major upgrade from last yr. That’s what this is about. We exceeded expectations last yr. Now you build on that success. We also need a solid scorer to take pressure off RJ and Randle. Dinwiddie will give you 18 pts and 8 ast a gm. (Payton 10.1 pts, 3 ast). So you add a scorer/shooter on wing. You help the Offense which needs the most help. Dinwiddie is a big 2way PG. You don’t hurt your D. Can also trade up for a pick to start now. This way you get a kid with upside that can help from day one. We can use Toppin and Quickly to move up. Or we can trade for one. Bouknight is a great fit could be available 8-12. Ultimate would be trading up for Kuminga. Hearing rumors Magic like Barnes. OKC take Toppin, Quickly, #19 pick for #6 pick. Kuminga, Randle, Mitch, Dinwiddie, RJ is a serious starting 5. Who will get better with time. Dinwiddie is a solid choice to me, cost us nothing. Knicks are not going to draft 3 rookies to play. They will trade up for a player they need and can help now. Like Toppin doesn’t make sense sitting behind Randle. Kuminga, Mitchell, Bouknight, J Johnson all worth trading up for. All can start next yr.
FA scorers Powell, Fournier, DeRozan, Duncan, Obrue all scorers. We can just sign a PG and a scorer to upgrade. And still move up in draft. Knicks will upgrade one way or another. It’s a done deal.
Why trade Toppin and Quickley to move up some spots? Let the kids develop with us (unless some star becomes avaliable)
There is a star more important starter in top 12. Kuminga SF, Bouknight SG, Mitchell PG, J JOhnson SF. Toppin is not going to play while Randle is here. Quickly was a find but is not a true PG. It’s why we signed Luca. We are in great position to move those two. Not give them away. Kuminga could be best player In draft one day. Just think where we would be if we drafted Halliburton instead
Not drafting Haliburton kills me.
Haliburton would be a dream. As for our rookies, im pretty high on Quickley, he has all the tools to be a great 6° man. Toppin shown some nice flashes by the end of the season. But, i would keep him avaliable in trade talks. I still dont know if i would make something like Toppin + all our 2021 picks for pick 5 (Kuminga). As far as potential goes, maybe Toppin ceilling is as good as Kuminga, maybe, idk.
I’m not sure my main conclusion from watching the Knicks get annihilated by the Hawks was, “We just need a new point guard.”
My main conclusion was: How good are Barrett and Randle, really? Not far behind that was: Is Thibs just a master of squeezing out reg season wins?
Because the end-game for NY is clear enough. Put a Good team on the floor, then use to cache of being in NY to lure a superstar, and then become a Great team with said superstar.
But I think that idea has lost some appeal because of renewed questions about Randle. If Julius went out and put up 27-12-5 in 5 games we’d all be talking about how if NY could just get a Kawhi, a Luka, a Dame, then they’re in the convo for a ring. Julius just needs help, etc etc
Instead, I think a lot of us are wondering if Randle’s regular season numbers were perhaps fool’s gold after all? His great improvements—in playmaking and 3P shooting—seemed to vanish in the postseason.
The other side of it is RJ—he’s shown some potential, but right now he’s about 3 levels down from his colleagues Ja and Zion. If he could make a leap this season, then in many ways the Randle question becomes moot.
TL;DR Signing Kyle Lowry solves nothing.
I think you’re right about Thibs, but I hope we’re wrong. I wasn’t pleased with the hire, but can’t argue the results. I was ready for another high draft pick, and this would’ve been the year to do it.
I think RJ just needs to get more comfortable. It translates into his confidence in himself. His persona isn’t alpha male – seems to want to blend/fit in when you see him play and watch his body language. Over time I think some of that will change.
I don’t have an explanation for Randle and can only hope he continues. Sadly, the cost will be lack of floor time for Toppin. I truly believe the lack of 3s for Randle and play in general is Thibs just drained him. Playing a top team non-stop with no breaks going forward like a Houston, etc can mentally take a toll as well.
And a hard no on Lowry. Thibs would probably say yes, but don’t believe that is the strategy that needs to be implored. I kinda thought we had a semi answer there when Haliburton was waiting for his name to be called.
Sign Dinwiddie , let him run the point w Rose as a back up and Quickly to play the 1-2 w either unit as a Vern Maxwell type player off the bench … then take your 2 picks and package them anyone but Quick , M Rob , RJ , and Randle … the rest of the group are expendable
If the Knicks can continue the course and build have Robinson continue to grow game wise and physically along w RJ developing , Randle continues being a good option we are heading in the right direction until a big time FA wants to take Dolans money and make us legit in about 2 seasons …