The Knicks don’t view their newly announced signing of Jalen Brunson as an impediment to a potential pursuit of Jazz guard Donovan Mitchell, writes Jake Fischer of Bleacher Report. As Fischer explains, the team believes that the addition of Brunson is a “key ingredient” in its plan of adding a legitimate All-Star to the roster, since the former Maverick is the sort of table-setter and secondary scorer whom a star would want to play alongside.
While the Knicks have stockpiled a number of extra future draft picks, it remains to be seen whether or not they’ll be able to put together the sort of trade package the Jazz can’t refuse for Mitchell. As Mike Vaccaro of The New York Post writes, Utah would almost certainly push for New York to include former No. 3 overall pick RJ Barrett, who has All-Star upside.
Vaccaro argues that the Knicks should be willing to give up Barrett for a player like Mitchell, who is already an All-Star, but it’s unclear how significantly the Jazz value the former Duke standout, how inclined New York is to include him an offer, and how many more assets Utah would want in addition to Barrett.
Here’s more on the Knicks:
- Brunson’s four-year, $104MM deal with the Knicks has a descending structure, beginning at $27.7MM in year one and eventually dipping to $24.9MM in years three and four, per Fred Katz of The Athletic (Twitter link). Brunson also got a 10% trade kicker to go along with his fourth-player option, a source tells Katz.
- Isaiah Hartenstein has $16MM in guaranteed money on his two-year contract with the Knicks, along with a 5% trade kicker and $1.05MM in annual unlikely incentives, according to Katz (Twitter links). Hartenstein has three separate bonuses worth $350K apiece for playing at least 1,350 regular season minutes, the Knicks winning at least 40 games, and the Knicks making the playoffs, Katz adds.
- Like Brunson’s new contract, Mitchell Robinson‘s four-year, $60MM pact has a descending structure, according to Katz (Twitter link). The deal, which doesn’t feature any options or a trade kicker, begins at $17MM in 2022/23 and decreases to $13MM in ’25/26.
On me they trying to trade randle for him
I feel like I’m going to say a lot of stuff right now, kind of just thinking out loud about the Knicks current situation, so maybe I’ll end up rambling a bit. My eyes kind of stopped working this morning a while ago, so hopefully I dont jamble too many things together. I also know I’ve said a lot of this stuff before, but now that more is being said in the media, which I don’t give too much credence to, about Donovqn Mitchell and trading pieces like Barrett, it only adds more to my thought process and trying to work out what they have going
They should have given their young guards a chance. Trading for Mitchell at this point makes very little sense.
I do wonder what they may have looked like if they drafted Haliburton a couple of years ago, and now I wonder how they would be set up going forward if they either stayed at 11 in the draft, or traded down for assets, similarly to what they did, but also grabbed a player in the late teens, like a Christian Braun, and simply used their resources on other spots. That young team would be taking significant steps forward over this next year or 2
That being said, I have said I think Brinson does fit with Barrett and Randle, and I really like the Hartenstein move. I do think they need to find a way to move off Fournier for the Brunson deal to work the best way it can for them though, and I might have put more into pursuing that than what they paid to move Burks, who I think would have made a better option if they held onto him, or could have still been moved easier
I think now, 1 of their young guards might be in jeopardy of being moved themselves, or not seeing time they probably should, especially while Fournier is still there, and it calls into question what might happen to Derrick Rose as well b/c I see McBride as a PG that can defend, make the right plays, and catch and shoot. Grimes I see as a combo guard that can shoot and attack, and would be suited well for a 6 man role potentially, or as a shooter at the 2 next to Barrett. Quickley is a really good catch and shoot guy that can be a secondary or 3rd playmaker, and defends adequately at the guard spots
Do they start Brunson and Quickley next to Barrett, Randle, and 1 of their bigs? Regardless, I think they have a lot of rotation questions going forward, if this is the roster they go with, but I would think it would be a poor decision to make a move for Mitchell at this point, and give up assets to do so
Ultimately, I’m waiting for the final product to really have a real opinion on what they did b/c I feel like there are a lot of moving parts and questionable decisions in there that could have gone differently, but really all that matters is what that final roster looks like, and how it sets them up, not only for this upcoming season, but moving forward
It’s hard to complain about trading for a player that’s better than any9one else you have and who wants to be here, unless you overpay.
The Knicks also need to consolidate anyway. If you can do that, and just happen to consolidate into a star, you really have to do it and worry about fit later.
What about the idea of giving up a young, playmaking wing like Barrett to have a backcourt that you’re paying most of your cap to, and is also very small? Then when you include the other issue of having so many guys on the roster that need the ball in their hands, and how those 2 guys might fit with Randle, and where the spacing is…I just dont get it. If they hadnt signed Brunson, maybe, but I still wouldnt want to trade Barrett in that scenario either, really…
Obviously, if you can get a “star,” that’s something you always consider at least exploring, but if I have enough assets, I’m targeting someone that effects my current roster, but specifically, someone with more value at a significant position…like at that point, if I’m giving up that much, I’m going for Kevin Durant myself…I just feel like this would be shortsighted, which ultimately fits a lot of what I was saying
RJ isn’t going to be cheaper and being taller doesn’t make you better. Mitchell also doesn’t need the ball any more than RJ.
I’m all for getting someone better if it’s an option but I’m not for hoping or building around a player like Brunson to the point where I start turning down players like Mitchell.
I agree with your assessment of most of the players, and the pre-Brunson situation on the point. I was a fan of the situation, even if it was uncertain. The trade sucks for IQ and McBride, both of whom have bought into and embraced the program from day one. But, bigger picture, we didn’t have a sure thing as a starting PG for this year, and its year 3 of this regime. IQ didn’t really show facilitation skills until his 3rd chance on the point, one he might not have even gotten if McBride were healthy. McBride was intended to be a redshirt last year, which he did, but, while he showed a bunch, it’s still not clear he can be the day one starter. Rose is not really in the mix to start games for a bunch of reasons, including his not wanting to.
I’m not the biggest fan of this signing, but: Brunson is a better player than people think (he wasn’t born in DAL, in fact it was about the worst fit for him imaginable). Brunson is familiar with the Knicks (understatement), and, even with that (lol), wanted to come here as a UFA. It cost us nothing (other than a few 2nd round picks to clear cap space, and trading out the 1st round on our terms). The contract is relatively team friendly terms for an UFA cap space signing. Very actually. Regardless of how this works out, I can never fault this signing.
I totally disagree about Quickley’s ability to facilitate. I saw it in his first training camp. The fact is that Thibs couldn’t coach a boulder to roll downhill and it isn’t a coincidence that every PG we bring in looks like they’ve never run an offense.
I have no issue with the Brunson signing because they can’t wait and because you can’t give Ainge even more leverage. It’s only a problem if they start building the team around him.
Well, you saw what you saw, and of course there was ability, but your characterization of it being evident is at odds with near unanimous consensus. FWIW, in the NBA world, Thibs is getting credit for both pushing for the drafting of IQ and facilitating his development. That credit starts with, and it loudest from, the player himself. Perhaps he has mischaracterized his own situation and you nailed it. Doubt it, but anything is possible I guess.
In the NBA world? :)
We speak completely different languages if you’re polling opinions & unable to see the game.
I was unclear. I meant the NBA world as distinguished from the worlds of 2k, fantasy and street ball.
I’m very able (and way to ready and willing) to watch the games. But watching games only tells you what’s happening on the court at that time. Not why, and certainly not whether a HC is doing a good job. To have an informed opinion of the latter, you need to understand what coaching is and isn’t, and the situation (and that’s not just about what happens in-game). I do, and like others who do, I’m a fan of Thibs.
Of course, there are other critical opinions on Thibs. I see and hear them if only because this board is replete with them. But I don’t poll them, largely because they seem largely held by 2k’ers, fantasy players and AAU butt boys, all groups incapable of an informed opinion because they don’t get coaching. Near as I can tell they think it’s about pixie dust, pressing buttons on a keyboard and baby sitting/butt kissing; but I couldn’t say for sure.
As for player development, the first and most important opinion is that of the player in question. Unless he suffers from delusions.
Knicks can’t offer anything as enticing as a package headlined by Jalen Suggs & Franz Wagner. Those 2 guys are very much Ainge type guys. Both very cheap for & under team control for the foreseeable future. Orlando has plenty of draft capital just like NYK. If Orlando wants Mitchell it doesn’t really matter if NYK wants him (unless Mitchell makes it clear he doesn’t wanna go there). Markelle/Spida/Paolo/JI/Bamba with Cole, GHarris, Wendell & others is a dangerous team that could be a contender sooner than later. Esp if they can pick up another vet & IF Fultz & Isaac finally get a full healthy season in
Orlando ain’t even gonna be in the conversation and no their package wouldn’t be as good.
Who could offer more than Suggs, Franz, RJ, Mo, TRoss & picks?
IMO that will be too much for Donovan and the Magic don’t need to rush things.
Jazz just said they want more then Rudy so no way is it too much in their eyes (the only ones that matter)
Agree w Sank Orl has great assets to get it done if they so desire . I think Ainge would love to be able to pick that roster clean if able
*Im sitting it out tho if Orl, I like the lane they’ve been cruising in lately …Time’s on their side, they can pounce later on down the road if need be
Time is not on Orlando’s side lol they haven’t been good since Dwight hurt his back. Just bc expectations have been low doesn’t make it okay for them to be losers. At some point you gotta win. Orlando has a fanbase that they have to entertain. If you have a chance to get Spida & become a winner then you gotta do it, especially if you can keep guys like Paolo & Wendell & JI & Cole
Trading for a 25yo superstar isn’t what I’d call rushing things. Plus they’ve sucked for well over a decade now. It’s about time they field a competitive team. It would be hard to overpay for a surefire future HOF guard with 5-8yrs left of his prime, locked up for the next 3yrs. He’d be their best player since Dwight by far. He’s elite at the most important skill in the game (scoring). He’s already 1 of the best postseason performers of this era. It’s almost impossible for them to overpay for a guy like that. They could add 2 more 1sts onto my original offer & they’d still be sitting pretty
You’re presuming that the Magic are even thinking of offering that package for Mitchell.
Hartensteins contract includes “unlikely incentives”, including “knicks winning 40 or more games” and “Knicks making the playoffs “. Wow, even the contract doesn’t inspire hope the Knicks will be good.
Unlikely incentives means things that havent happened yet, so it doesnt get factored into the cap hit initially
The subtle shade is hilarious, haha.
Remains to be seen?
The Knicks could easily overwhelm the Jazz if they wanted to.
What remains to be seen is if the Jazz can find a second offer good enough to push the Knicks into making a painful offer.
Agreed. Would hate to see them move RJ – personally I wouldn’t do it if he’s involved. Anyone else, go for it. Robinson, Randle, Grimes, McBride, 5 first rounders – I’d try that first.
Also, if they did acquire Mitchell, that backcourt is going to hurt terribly on defense, enough I’d consider having EMS available on the Knicks bench at all times.
Knicks have 8 first round picks and 3 swaps to offer Jazz
Heat need third team to offer two future first round picks to compete with Knicks
Knicks have better summer than Lakers
Knicks are just one piece away from making playoffs
Do it
I don’t know why everyone makes such a big deal out of making the playoffs in this day and age. It’s hardly an accomplishment. Unless you’re a top-4 seed it’s usually not anything to get excited about.
Does Mitchell get them there with all of the pieces they would lose to acquire him and the so-so fit? I’m skeptical.
Unless you’re a bottom feeder for over a dozen years and don’t remember what the playoff excitement feels like. Big difference from the regular season. It also shows you what your team really needs.
i think hes gonna wind up in miami
Mitchell’s terrible defense on Jalen Brunson during the playoffs is what made Jalen a household name and got him this big payday.
Against Mitchell Brunson averaged
28pts/game on
48% shooting and
had an average game score of 21
In the 2nd round, 19 pts/game, 45% and 12.
In the 3rd round 18 pts/game, 46% and 13.
Regular Season 16.3 pts/game, 50% and 13.
Why share all that?
B/C I think there would be some amazing irony to have Mitchell play alongside the latest person he turned into an all-star by “guarding” them in the playoffs.
Agreed. Mitchell is a very good player, but I do think he’s overrated by the masses because stats.
We’re talking about a top-15/top-20 guy here. Certainly worth giving up a lot for, but does Mitchell/Brunson/Robinson and a few interesting guys cut it if you have to move some of your key young pieces? Meh. This doesn’t even include the fact that Randle and Fournier are still on the books, both of whom would require more assets to move. Unless the plan is to hope they rebound, particularly Randle. If he does, okay, but a starting lineup like that would be atrocious defensively and be short on shooting.
The only positive thing is his salary, which is tied-36th in the league in terms of AAV and comes with three years of control. So between he and Brunson they aren’t quite two max contracts guys.
I would have been so much happier if they had just traded for Dejounte Murray. Would have cost significantly less, he play’s d and involves other players. I have a feeling Mitchell is inevitable though. I think he wants to be here and will try to force it.
I’m far from the biggest Mitchell fan, but the guy has a career avg of 29 ppg in the playoffs and he’s 25 years old.
That alone would probably make him the best Knick since at least Carmelo.
Could getting him potentially be the first step in making the Knicks competitive enough to at least be in the conversation for a bigger star (kind of like the Ray Allen trade precipitated Garnett in Boston 15 years ago)?
It might be worth a shot, even if it costs Barrett. I like RJ a lot, but on the spectrum of his most likely outcomes, how many put him as a better player than Mitchell is right now?
Rather have RJ ……
Move on
A handful of teams in the league might be able to rationally value a handful of players in the league as being worth trading their unprotected 1st round picks in volume. The NYK aren’t one of those teams. Mitchell probably isn’t one of those players, either, but no need to get into it. Those players, generally, don’t get traded unless they demand it, and they are at end of their contract is near enough that there’s a risk of losing the player without compensation.
Saw something earlier about the Knicks trading brunsen for Mitchell. You can’t trade a free agent you just signed.