With Jonathan Kuminga‘s negotiations in restricted free agency seemingly set to drag on into August, the Warriors forward will likely have his international commitments affected by the stalemate.
As Marc Stein of The Stein Line details (via Twitter), the ongoing talks between Kuminga’s representatives and Golden State are expected to prevent him from suiting up for the Democratic Republic of Congo in this year’s AfroBasket competition, which tips off on August 12 in Angola. Kuminga had initially been listed on the team’s roster ahead of the tournament.
The primary reported suitors for Kuminga at this juncture are a pair of the Warriors’ Pacific Division rivals, the Suns and the Kings.
While Phoenix has legitimate interest in Kuminga, it’s unclear whether the club has the sort of young talent or draft assets to get a deal done. John Gambadoro of Arizona Sports 98.7 FM Phoenix (Twitter link) reports that second-year Suns forward Ryan Dunn has never been discussed in trade talks and insists that he will not be included.
Andscape’s Marc J. Spears, meanwhile, hears that Kuminga is intrigued by the possibility of playing for the Kings.
“He wants to go (to Sacramento),” Spears said during an NBA Today appearance on Wednesday (Twitter video link). “The Kings are offering a starting spot, power forward, next to Keegan Murray, next to [Domantas] Sabonis. He’s talked on a zoom call with Scott Perry, the GM; B.J. Armstrong, the assistant GM; and also with their head coach [Doug Christie]. So he’s in, he wants to go there.”
Spears also shared some details on what a Suns offer for Kuminga might look like. “I heard they’re offering Royce O’Neale and four seconds and Nick Richards,” he said.
For what it’s worth, Phoenix only currently controls three second-round picks.
ESPN’s Shams Charania also appeared on NBA Today on Wednesday (Twitter video link) and suggested that Sacramento has been open to including a protected first-round pick in its sign-and-trade offer for Kuminga. Charania added that both the Kings and Suns have been willing to go up to about $90MM over four years for the 22-year-old. For now, Golden State has rejected sign-and-trade proposals from both teams.
“(The Warriors) want a good player, they also want an unprotected first-round pick, a good first-round pick,” Charania said. “The Sacramento Kings, I’m told, have actually offered a first-round pick in those conversations – it’s been a conditional first-round pick – as well as a potential rotation player. But the Warriors have wanted to the Sacramento Kings to give them an unprotected – fully – first-round pick.”
Phoenix doesn’t presently have the ability to trade a first-round pick.
Luke Adams contributed to this story.
First one here.
Ha! We need to start a “Kuminga prediction pool”. Possible outcomes:
1. Signs 2-3 year extension with GSW for $24M-$27M/yr
2. Signs $8M qualifying offer for 2025-26.
3. Sign-and-trade with SAC, PHO, etc
My prediction:
1. 60%.
2. 30%
3. 10%
No QO. He just cant take that kind of financial risk.
@Michol, That’s one point of view, but Kuminga definitely sees it differently. His goal is to get to a team that values him ASAP. And he believes that playing for Kerr any longer will destroy his career.
Even after Kuminga’s strong showing in the playoffs, Kerr made a point of saying publicly that Kuminga will never be a key contributor for the Warriors. The financial cost of that overwhelms any consideration of being underpaid for 1 season.
Signing the QO guarantees that Kuminga can choose his next team. He can veto a trade to any team he doesn’t want to join. Worse case, he’s away from Kerr by at the end of the season. More likely, the Warriors have let him choose a team much earlier than that.
Where did Kerr say that? “ Kerr made a point of saying publicly that Kuminga will never be a key contributor for the Warriors”
That doesn’t even make sense, much less for a guy with JK’s skills, athleticism and youth. Kerr is usually super pro about guys on the team.
@Smitter-. These are excerpts from a Kerr interview with Tim Kawakami in late May, which Kerr apparently asked for. You cannot fault Kerr for speaking the truth, but, as the national media noted, this isn’t what you say when you’re recruiting a free agent. It immediately prompted a public statement by Dunleavey that Kerr had been misunderstood, a podcast by Draymond Green trying to explain it away, etc.
“And right now, he’s not a guy who I can say I’m going to play 38 minutes with the roster that we have — Steph and Jimmy and Draymond — and put the puzzle together that way and expect to win,” Kerr bluntly disclosed.”
“I can understand why JK would not want to be here– with our system and our guys…But I’m not going to change how I do things, even if players or management doesn’t like it.”
Kerr is the coach and has final cut lols.
I mean he is like, no we arent going to start playing our whole offense through Kuminga in the post like he wants. I dont think that should shock anyone.
I dont think its the offensive fit thats holding Kuminga back. GPII plays all the time in super janky no offense lineups. If he could be a mildly positive defender he would start, and get way more opportunity to find his offensive groove. If he was lock down defensively they would give him 5 iso post ups a game.
Kerr’s ego is on full display in those quotes. No wonder Dunleavey tried to spin it – obviously really unhelpful as far as getting him traded.
Uh…Duh…You really can’t see why Kerr said that? It should make perfect sense to anyone.
Prior to acquiring Butler, the Warriors were heading for their worst offensive output in a decade. They were a lottery team. With Butler, they went 28-7. Why would Kerr stop that chemistry to give Kuminga 38 minutes a game? Why would you change things on a playoff bound team? Kuminga wasn’t adding thing.
Kerr said that 10 days after JK led the warriors in scoring in the Wolves series loss (so after the playoffs were over for GSW).
Kerr wants him gone, so he should have kept his mouth shut after JK’s efficient scoring in that series showed potential trade partners his potential.
Instead, that quote hurt the chance of a S&T. Stupid, IMO.
@NbaIsOk, that’s exactly how the basketball world at large perceives it, and why the national media continues to follow it.
The narrative is that it’s Kerr’s ego. Kerr asking Kawakami for the interview and saying “I’m not going to play him 38 minutes per game” was a direct response to Tim Legler blaming Kerr for losing a Minnesota playoff game by underplaying Kuminga. Legler said something like, “Why play Kuminga only 30 minutes when you’re losing and he’s the only offense you have. Kerr should be playing him 38 minutes.”
Interesting video of Draymond trying to clean up the mess:
link to youtube.com
@aristotle
I agree, and it’s hard to imagine that the narrative isn’t accurate.
Kerr being that defensive about a reasonable criticism (so he apparently felt he had to rebut it) is pathetic, given that both home games were close enough to potentially have gone the other way if Kuminga had started/played more.
But in the bigger picture wrt helping JK’s trade value, more time and maybe 26 ppg should have happened since they weren’t going to beat the Wolves regardless with their multiple injured players.
I didnt agree with how Warriors developed him the last 4 yrs. It was so obvious that there were issues and I still do not understand why Warriors didnt trade the last 2 yrs when there were great offers for him. Kuminga cant burn any bridge. It’s best he still makes Kerr, Lacob, everybody in Warriors organization look good. It’s how the real world works.
Michol, what were these great offers for JK?
He was included in many offers the Warriors made but the other teams wanted more because JK is not a player.
He does nothing well. What’s his skill set?
Don’t get me started. I’ve written ad nauseam paragraph after paragraph on this.
They’ve been trying to trade the dude for two years, but saw a glimmer of hope he would turn into something instead of giving him away.
You saw the headlines you saw the guys the Warriors were going after but JK was not part of the equation in the other team‘s hearts.
“You can keep him we’ll take someone else.”
How about Moses Moody?
“Keep him too. he’s horrible.”
OK and here we sit today. Bob Myers was good at player negotiation but crappy at drafting and player evaluation.
And so we sit trying to fix a wasted number seven pick and a wasted number 14 pick (and number two pick for that matter.)
Hehe. We could have had Edwards!
Edwards who?
Anthony Edwards?
He went number one and the Warriors picked the number two. We could’ve had Ball, the often injured, yet dynamic guard for the Hornets.
Wolves were willing to trade #1 pick for our #2 and future assets. There were so many offers at the time for our 3 first round picks.
So this is what you mean by all the great offers for Jonathan Kuminga? OK I wasn’t going that far back and I was not privy to those offers at that draft.
> He was included in many offers the Warriors made but the
> other teams wanted more because JK is not a player.
Gary, which offers were those? He wasn’t offered for either Paul George or Markkanen or Butler. He was asked for by the Clippers and Miami. The only offer that I believe he was included in was for KD.
Anyway, stating that Kuminga doesn’t have significant market feels silly. Reasonable minds will vary on whether he’s under- or over-rated, but there are currently multiple teams willing to pay him >$20M/yr in a bone-dry market.
@Michol Kuminga was a high pick. If he takes the QO, his earnings will be above 32M in 5 years. Not the worst. And then he can sign somewhere at age 23. As a Wiz fan, I’d like it if he were there in free agency next year. The team will have space.
I still don’t think he’ll take a QO, though.
Right Michol, and also the Warriors would lose him for nothing next summer.
Taking the QO of $8 million and playing next season percentage chances? 0.0%.
Dubs will take DeRo + a ’27 unprotected 1st and like it!
1. 20%
2. 40%
3. 40%
Sign and Trade 3 steps
Step 1
Centerpiece: a good player
Step 2
Send 3 unneeded assets to third team: Carter, Saric and O’Neale
Step 3
a good first round pick
SNT is not working, IMO
Kuminga is not a PF. NEVER will be. His game has nothing PF about it. And Sabonis is not a Center …
This is why Kings are so bad. They still don’t understand what positional basketball is all about.
Not that there aren’t already a ton of issues with RFA, but the problem GS is having is that they are acting like they are in a more powerful position to ask for whatever they want, when in reality, they don’t have as much power as they think. The longer this goes, the less they can ask for. The obvious issue is there’s no money left. But also there is the issue that teams can make saying “if you valued him more, why didn’t you play him more?” Unlike Cam Thomas, other teams know GS wants to rid themselves of Kuminga and can play the long game. Why give GS a kings ransom and then have to pay Kuminga all this money when you can force GS to bring him back on the tender and any team can trade for him at that price and take him for a test drive themselves for a lot less than they are asking now? I can see a team like the Sixers kick the bucket around the trade deadline and offer Grimes for Kuminga. One less guard in Philly and they can play a real forward at the 4. Don’t see the Warriors accepting it though without some sweetener or another team.
Grimes also RFA
The Sixers don’t have the money to offer kuminga what he wants. They also don’t have the shots available that kuminga feels he deserves. He would be the 4th option on offense and doesn’t bring much on the defensive end. He is a terrible 3 point shooter as well, which is what the Sixers need around maxey and Embiid
@BradC, good point: nothing much will happen until it has to. In the meantime, we don’t know who has been kicking the tires.
Warriors are in the driver seat.
They can wait around as long as they want until they get an offer they like. Whoever steps forward out of 29 other teams gets JK.
The Warriors hold all the cards.
All of them.
JK waits and we’ll see which team blinks first out of the 29.
So what if there’s only two teams that really value JK enough to make a deal. OK which team blinks first but you never know.., one of the other 27 could step up at any time.
@gary, you’re missing the plot line here.
You have this part right: Kuminga wants out if he doesn’t get paid. What you have wrong is that he’s not signing with any team where he won’t play.
if you look at all the media outlets right now you’ll see that they all believe the opposite of you. The Warriors have no cards to play. The Warriors either pay, or they’re screwed.
Anthony Slater, who is probably the sharpest and best informed of the Warriors’ beat writers said yesterday that the most likely path is Kuminga signs the QO.
If so then Anthony Slater is wrong and he’s been wrong before.
Ari, you know things that are reported are all part of the negotiation, right?
The things you put out in the press could be deliberately untrue and be all part of the charade.
You don’t remember Don Nelson very well, do you? He would put something out in the press around draft time or playoff time and do the exact opposite.
There is no way under any condition that Jonathan Kuminga signs the 8.0 qualifying offer.
Because in that case he walks for free next summer and the Warriors will not let that happen.
The Warriors are not stupid.
They will trade him for something before October 15. End of story.
If he signs the QO and doesnt get traded during the season he still needs a S&T to get to anywhere without 25M in cap space. So you should still get something back. Also you would be far enough under the aprons to then use the TPMLE/BAE/TPE or full MLE to fill out the roster. 8M for Kuminga gives them quite a bit more financial flexibility.
If he magically fits much better and has a great year where hes happy you could even offer him a big deal and go into the aprons with a better team around.
ari, ask yourself this. Would you rather have Nick Richards, Royce O’Neill, and two second round picks or.., nothing?
Would you rather have Carter and Saric and a protected first round pick or.., nothing?
Here’s a hint, don’t go to Anthony Slater for help on this quiz.
@gary, I think I see what you’re missing. The fact the Warriors would trade Kuminga and that Sacramento (or Phoenix) has interest doesn’t mean a deal can’t happen.
Those teams currently don’t have $25M-$30M of cap space per year to pay Kuminga.
The Warriors reportedly didn’t want Demar Derozan from Sac, which might have enabled a deal.
Same with Phoenix. They’d need to clear cap space.
You do the PHX deal your HC at the first apron and you get Richards/Royce and maybe 2 mins. No Horford on the TPMLE so its a hard no. Thats not worth 4 2nds you can straight buy each year.
Thanks, Chap. More than a minor detail.
Hows he getting more touches on SAC with DDR/Sabonis/Monk/Lavine/Murray? I think he is confusing being in a starting lineup with being the main engine of an offense.
Chapman, for some reason it hasn’t been covered on this site, but the story is that Derozan (who really wants to leave Sac) goes out as Kuminga comes in. 3+ teams involved, but details murky. Google and you’ll see.
Starting 5 in SAC will be:
Schroeder Lavine JK Sabonis Murray
Monk is 6th man
Who wants DDR? Are they paying a mostly unprotected 1st for UTH/BRK to take on his money, because I think it costs you at least a good 1st to get off the like 35M he still has guaranteed?
Yeah I forgot they did that terrible deal for Schroeder. He would be the PG and they would have even less shooting in the lineup. I dont care what % Sabonis shot he isnt a real shooter.
@gary, this is a “part 2” to my the “maybe what you’re missing” message I sent earlier:
If GSW makes the Phoenix trade, they lose the ability to sign Horford with the MLE.
GSW would also be hard capped at the first apron, which they absolutely, positively don’t want to do because it prevents them from making the big mid-season deal.
There aren’t 29 teams with interest in JK, though. And even among those with interest some can’t make the money work, don’t have enticing assets to offer up, or have a questionable potential fit. When a player wants out and few teams check off all of those boxes where exactly does the leverage come from?
In all likelihood, Kuminga will be traded soon or will sign the QO and be traded during the season, which looks increasingly likely. There is simply no reason for other teams to go overboard here. Some team may step up, but it’s doubtful their package will meet the original asking price. And it will be up to the Warriors to determine whether good enough is good enough or punt until the season and hope a better package comes along then.
> or will sign the QO and be traded during the season
That would be excruciatingly painful for ownership, which is why I gave it only a 10% probablility as compared to the other two possibilities. As you would say, Lacob will “cave”.
Right or wrong, Kuminga has been viewed by ownership as the sngle valuable asset other than Steph, whether as, one, a chip to flip and fill a short-term need or, two, as part of the post-Steph core.
If Kuminga is lost for nothing, then GSW is left with nothing of value to offer in a trade for help this year or help with the upcoming rebuild.
Seems like it’s not worth you being able to make other moves.
Lol the majority of Warriors fans on here. Are the biggest crybabies on Hoopsrumors. For two years they have been trashing Kumingas game. And making excuses for Warriors development and handling of him. Their own coach is on record. As saying he doesn’t get it. And with Jimmy here. We don’t have mins for him. He has been jerked around for two years and running by Warriors.
And only cause Curry got hurt. Was he able to play in playoffs. And reminded everyone he is still a real talent.
Now these same crybabies in here think they should be getting the world for him in a trade. Warriors have done this to themselves. Nobody is going to bail them out now. “You reap what you sow”
So keep the Fn tears coming …..
Al- ok, some painful truths here.
But remember, love is blind.
We have some sacred cows here. We will ignore their failures, no matter what the evidence and what the rest of the world sees.
so…make him an offer, Kings. im beginning to grow weary of this sitch.
Anybody who actually WANTS to play in Sacramento shows you what kind of player he is
Lol, he just wants to be a starter, no matter where.
What slot does he start for kings? They would have to trade Murray for him to start
Sabonis 5
Kuminga 4
Murray 3
Lavine 2
Monk 1
You probably have to waive or trade DDR to make the offers they supposedly are for Kuminga.
Its a janky lineup, and a janky trade that doesnt make much sense for SAC since it makes the fit of there team even worse than GSW.
Can’t play with Kuminga long at the 4 with Sabonis at the 5.
So they want a good player AND a good unprotected first round pick. Make that make sense when they refuse to pay him or play him like the kind of player worthy of that trade package.
If the offers are true Suns offer is a lot better than what the kings have been offering. Kings better pick uptheir offer with better players if they claim to be that interested in getting Kuminga.
My view is different
Let’s say Kuminga is $1.00
Kings offer 30 cents
Suns offer 25 cents
Equal value = a good player + a good First
It doesn’t have to make sense Black Ace.
Does Rudy Gobert for 10 guys make sense? No it doesn’t. But you pay what you feel you need to for what you want to get.
Does Mikal Bridges for seven or eight guys make sense? Absolutely not but you pay what you need to pay to get the guy you want.
The Warriors are just waiting for that team and it’s not a problem to ask high. Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do.., start high?
When October 15 rolls around maybe two weeks prior you ask a little less or maybe even a lot less. But right now it’s August 1 and you shoot for the sun and maybe someone gives you the moon?
He has to sign his QO on Oct 1st. So you got till end of September for a sign n trade.
That’s a decent offer by the Suns. Why haven’t the Warriors pulled the trigger??
Because O’Neale Richards and multiple 2nd rd picks actually isn’t that decent.
If the warriors could flip O,Neale to a third for a bench player and another 2nd round pick it could work
As of right now if the Warriors were to make that trade O’Neale would be the Warriors best bench player.
I would take Buddy, Santos, or Post over him.
> If the warriors could flip O,Neale to a third for a bench player
> and another 2nd round pick it could work
@arc89, O’Neale has a negative contract. Does GSW want to be paying a broken-down reserve $12M/yr in three seasons, at 35 years old?
Everybody knows that O’Neale’s long contract was another impulsive mistake by Ishbia. Nobody wants it.
Yeah Oneale had them over a barrel because they were a second apron team that couldnt let him leave and overpaid him big time.
arc. It’s things like that the Warriors could be working on all this time.
Taking these offers and shopping them around the league to see how they can improve their team with the assets provided by the first team?
It’s a garbage offer from the Suns. They’d be dumping 2 of their bad contracts on the Warriors.
1. Richards is the Suns 4th string center, behind Mark Williams, Malauch and Ishigaro. Richards has been a bad player on bad teams his whole career . He’s basically a $5M expiring contract.
2. Royce ONeal would have been a great fit on the W’s 2 years ago, but he’s lost a lot since then. He’s now in his mid-30’s with 3 years left at $11M/yr.
(BTW, Spears’ report on the Phoenix offer conflicts with an earlier one we got here, which was had Grayson Allen and Ishigaro. The Warriors didn’t want Allen’s huge contract, but at least those 2 players could help us this year.)
Richards could be usable in the right situations because his rebound numbers are good. ONeale is not worth his contract so Suns would need to trade him. I am guessing teh Suns gets desperate and trade Allen instead to a third team for a young player and a draft pick. I am more surprised Pistons are not in on Kuminga? They have some money to spend and could use some offense.
@arc89, trust me, if there’s one center in the league that Steve Kerr will not play, it’s Nick Richards. Yes, Richards is huge, athletic, and gets boards, but he’ll break your heart if asked to do anything the Warriors want from a center.
Defensively, Richards’ time in Phoenix proved that the problems we saw in Charlotte were not fixable. Richards can’t figure out team defense — missed rotations, out of position, and he fouls way too much.
Offensively, Richards and the basketball don’t get along and cannot handle the rock. It’s not just that he struggles to catch the ball. He makes terrible decisions when he gets it.
Think of Richards is the “anti-Looney”. Take all the things that arc89 doesn’t like about Jonathan Kuminga, and multiply by 10.
All a center needs to do for the warriors is set screens. Liek how they used looney for all those year. Looney could have been more of a factor on offense if Kerr trusted him more. Watch how Looney scores 10 points a game for Pelicans.
> All a center needs to do for the warriors is set screens.
If it were that easy, James Wiseman would still be here.
Offensively, a Warriors center has to understand the motion offense, and screening, which Richards does poorly, is an important part of that, but there is so much more. (DHO’s are an example.) Quentin Post got playing time as a rookie because he could execute.
Defensively, a Warriors center has to be able to defend the PnR and switch quickly. Richards can’t do these things.
There are teams where Richards’ deficiencies are less costly than GSW.
i never seen Richards play but his rebounding stats are real good. i took it off his stats. I am getting a feeling that the Wizrds may make an offer for Kuminga since they have young players that could be traded for. Now that the poor trade offers are getting out there some other teams will want to get involved and trade for Kuminga. Would not take much to do a better deal than what the kings and suns offered.
Taking the PHX deal hard caps them at the 1st apron. If they do that no Horford, and they would barely have what they would need to get to a legal roster. I will take Kuminga and Horford over Richards and old Royce…
@arc89 Probably not after they got Whitmore.
Who would you want from the Wiz? But be realistic, they’re not trading guys who were recently drafted in the lottery.
Ill sign Middleton to a vet min after you buy him out ;p…
No ——- The #1 thing is anchor the D rim protection. 20-24 mins. That is what Warriors need most from a center
Can Richards defend the rim?
Yes he can solid rebounder. But I would want a pick
Kings should just sign him to offer sheet then if they have the space, I’m guessing they don’t
Correct. The CBA is killing the chances for the RFAs this offseason (only the nets and Jazz have the room).
The Jazz dont have room, but they could if they wanted to. It would though require them cutting some guys so its not a free move where they can just make an offer as if they have cap space and nothing to do with it.
Actually I think they already made the choice with the Collins deal so they have a TPE that they could absorb him into with a S&T but cant make him a RFA offer.
They don’t with sabonis derozan and lavine salaries
Where’s My Bulls???
Go Get This Guy!!!
Bulls have entertained including Colby White. Seems counter productive to trade white but there may be pieces to replace whites minutes.
White is one of the few players that is a real rotation piece and fits into the BYC rules where Kuminga gets 25M and GSW takes 12M back. Of course the Bulls would have to send out more, but you could take like Ayo into the Anderson TPE for no salary.
I would probably do Kuminga straight across for Ayo/White. That puts you at 11 on the roster, and Horford/Melton/Curry makes it 14. 15 if you sign either of the draft picks to the 2nd round exception.
Who in their right mind wants to play for Sacramento?
Tyrese Haliburton
Domantis Sabonis
Wow. GS is out of their mind lmao.
same can be said for the Kings and Suns.
Asking for an unprotected 1st on top of a young talented player when the only offers you have are not even close to that is insane. Not sure why Kings and Suns offering their scraps makes them out of their minds lol. Worst that happens is their rosters look the same. Something both of those teams are fine with. Also something GS is not fine with.
At what offers been reported the best thing to do is let him be a free agent next year and just do the QO. ONeal has a 3 year deal that is not worth taking. Saric is a drop and Carter is a project pick. I can see Kings demanded it be top 5 protected pick but they would need to add 1st round pick to an offer.
PHX deal hard caps you at the 1st apron and you dont get Horford.
Stop it bro. Just cause Warriors have blown it with Kuminga. Doesn’t mean they give him away. Plus why do Kings want him. With Zacn and DeM on team. Just a terrible mix.
same can be said for kings and Suns
Not out of their minds. They and Kuminga both badly misplayed things for the last couple of years and they are now both stuck in a situation with bad options and hoping the other side will blink.
Its bad timing for Kuminga. If they didn’t resign Butler to that big extesion Kuminga would be getting that 3 year deal but now the warriors don’t have any cap space to give him that 3/90 million deal.
I also think one of the sticking points is that JK and his agent want that no trade clause LOL. No way … look at what happened with the Suns and Beal.
I think the no trade clause is to extract more money from the team trading for him. Seems like Kuminga agent only cares about his comission and making more money since he has only 2 other clients at the end of their careers.
I mean it seems like they woulda actually rather have the longer 3-4 year deal if its at a number around 18-25M without the implied NTC. I think Kuminga would jump at the Pat Williams deal.
If I am Kuminga’s parent, I would advise him to take 3-4 yr contract with Warriors. And then fire his agent. And start fresh. He’s 22. He will have plenty oppprtnities to make money. Be positive, work hard, and help Warriors get a good value back in a trade. In business, you dont want to burn any bridge. Work with Kerr, other players, fo, and have gratitude even though the last 4 yrs was a disaster. Warriors was not a good fit but Kuminga needs to take ownership and try to improve. Bitterness is the worst way to go. TAKE the money now.
The warriors are only offering 2 years though
It’s all negotiable. They offered 2 yrs because Kuminga wanted ahort term. Warriors will surely go as high as $90m if not higher. They both need to compromise and come up with win win solution.
Michol, I believe it’s too late to mend any fences with JK. He’s got 1 foot out the door and the other foot on a banana peel. I said this two years ago and so did many others.
He’s not good enough to be your $30 million player. That spot is reserved for your fourth best guy and that’s not JK.
Adios bye-bye but we’d like to get something for you. Nothing wrong with that. It’s simply business negotiation.
Warriors had many great offers for Kuminga in the past. Why didnt they pull the trigger? We could have easily had Caruso for example.
MICHOL, NAME ONE GREAT OFFER THE WARRIORS RECEIVED FOR JONATHAN KUMINGA ???
Enlighten me because I can’t think of any. But maybe I missed something in the last two years that’s possible. I pay attention, but I’ve got blind spots.
Because of Lacob … it’s a bit unfortunate that even though he’s been a great owner for the Dubs, he sometimes gets in the way of basketball decisions.
Those offers were worse at the time. Kuminga had more value then, and all the asks for him were overpays outside of Siakam.
It would be awesome if we could make all trades with multiple years of future information at the time…
@ChapmansVacuum
Would you want Siakam that much more than Kuminga? Siakam is what, an average (or slightly below average) defender, an average rebounder. Good at exploiting mismatches, good at making things happen without sets – both things GS under Kerr don’t do and don’t want. He’s great at running the floor, has a mid-range j. He’s taking 3s, but not too many, as he’s not the most accurate.
He is proven, though, and you know what to expect of him. Doesn’t turn it over too much.
There is a lot of overlap with what Kuminga does and is, other than a midi-j and reliability.
Does anyone in GS even want to see Kuminga try to develop a mid-range jumper?
I mean he is sort of Kuminga if he develops into a 1 or 2 time all star. He does most everything Kuminga does a little better right now. Like he is a little larger and longer so he is able to switch onto bigs a bit more. He is less explosive athletically, but a much higher iq defender. I think he is a legit positive defender while not being like all defense level. He is more crafty inside the arc with a few more tricks to get to some different looks. I think he is a 3pt shooter who teams respect more that will burn you if you leave him just wide open. On top of that I think he is a lot more consistent currently, and does fit somewhat better in the starting lineup.
Kuminga just wants to knock that turn around fadeaway 12 footer, and shout “Kobe” all season long.
You’re harsh :)
Siakam’s 3-pt shot did come around this season, true.
To be fair to Kuminga, before he returned from injury this year and did everything badly, he was shooting 35% from 3. That’s what he shot for his career. On low-ish volume. That’s where Siakam was in his career, mostly. For a player of that type, you can live with that kind of accuracy, probably. As long as they’re doing other things right.
The fact that Kuminga came in after the injury and only made like 5 shots from behind the arc in 15 games, plummeting his stats, didn’t help his case. Poor 3-pt% is the biggest sin in GS-land, as we know…
But what if 35% on 3-4 shots a game is Kuminga’s baseline, and he improves from that?
Siakam is a good defender in the sense that he’s not a bad one and not a target. The 2025 playoffs are still fresh in the memory. He was excellent and played the best defense of his career, probably. Generally, he’s not as engaged on that end.
In any case, Siakam is a much more complete player than Kuminga. A higher-paid one, too. I don’t know if he would be a good fit in GS and if he would give them max salary-level play they’d be happy with, though.
With where things are going, I’m really starting to wish the Wiz didn’t go for Whitmore and waited for the Kuminga situation to unfold. If he’s willing to accept 4/80-85M, that’s a great contract. 4 years from now, high lottery rookies will be making almost 20M. Kuminga under that contract for reasonable compensation seems like a smart piece of business. One needs to see the forest for the trees, and despite all the noise about “2nd apron is shocking everyone, nobody is giving big contracts anymore!”, the cap will go up by 10% every year, the stars will make their 25-35% maxes, and the pot will be distributed between 15 players. That contract will age amazingly. Or at least quite well.
Markkanen, Brunson were in very similar situations. Can Kuminga be the next in that group? I think Giddey can. With Jonathan, I’m less sure, but it’s not the worst bet at all.
Teams still dont respect Kumingas 3pt shooting though, but yeah the main reason he was out of the rotation was that he is bad at defense and wasnt shooting, with the team having zero room for error. He is a streaky rhythm shooter that takes weeks to find his shot usually each season. They guard Siakam and dont do the wide open dare shots.
I think Siakam could be really good with Draymond playing his controller on defense. Like Draymond just plays the defense for guys a lot of the time and QBs it all, and Kuminga is still this mistake prone.
The Wizards could at least give them salary relief in some scenarios, and have a lot more draft assets to find the ones that fit just right. If they were going to open up the full MLE and BAE it would have been nice if they did that before most of the FA were off the market.
They did just announce the cap rising less in the first year of the new media deal. As I understand it thats both because they back loaded the media deal money so it doesnt jump as much in year one, but also the local media money falling apart. It will really matter if the cap rise is less this first year since its compounding and will be like 15M lower in year 4 than it would have been even if it does go up 10% after that.
Since the players return money if they make a higher % than they are supposed to its probably very beneficial for teams to have more flexibility for the cap to rise as much as possible as quickly as possible.
@ChapmansVacuum
Yeah, I’ve read now that the cap will go up by 7% in the first year. It will change things in general, but shouldn’t affect GS in their decision to give Kuminga 4/80-85, if he’s willing to accept it.
Okay, so I rewatched 14 full GS games over the weekend (why not?) Kuminga games. Watching only his movements and contribution. 4 games from the Minnesota series, and 5 games from this and last season each, when he was having good and bad runs. When evaluating these young players coming off their rookie deals, I find it helpful to watch both the 3rd and the 4th seasons, and not just base the opinion on what they did in the final year, as there can be a lot of variance.
In Kerr’s defense, I have to admit that he’s often hard to keep on the floor. Even when he’s scoring well, which he mostly is. ‘Why did Kerr take him out? He’s the only one out there who can score! Kerr is ruining the youth!’ That’s too simplistic, I don’t subscribe to that take.
Kuminga’s defending, his tendency to stand in the corner and watch basketball, his sometimes low motor. Those are the reasons why he’s often taken off the floor. The motor part I didn’t notice before. It is worrying.
But when he plays well, he has a complete game in him. Defends, plays his role in sets, scores efficiently, finds ways to outplay opponents. Those are the kind of games some random guy on a two-way can never give you.
He can really defend well when he finds his groove, better than players who just don’t possess physical gifts and capacity. But how do you put him in that groove? By making him a POA defender with a high pick-up point? I’d say it’s his best role. It’s like when he’s in the action, it brings out the good side in him. When he’s somewhere in the corner watching an opposing wing, it brings out the ugly parts. Corners is where you don’t want to use him, on both ends of the floor.
The rebounding bit. He’s an average or slightly above average rebounder for his position by most metrics. If you watch him play, sometimes he really goes for them, and sometimes just stands aimlessly. So it evens out and makes him average. That’s not good. I get why Kerr mentions it.
Offensive rebounds are particularly interesting. If he’s in the paint, he goes for it. If he’s standing on the perimeter, and the shot goes up, he just watches it and stays on the perimeter. Which is bad.
You know, when people say that you need to show your parents love and attention. And then specify that calling them or messaging them is one of the ways to do it. It’s simple, but it helps when you mention that that’s how you do it.
He’s being told to be a more engaged rebounder, to crash the boards. But it’s like nobody specified to him that the shot is a trigger, and when it goes up, he needs to go inside the paint to grab the ball in case it rebounds.
But sometimes he does that, and those are the games that he looks best in.
‘All he does is run and dunk 1 on 0.’ I don’t buy that. Just because he can run and make scoring on the break look easy, it doesn’t mean that it is easy, and anyone can do it. You often see that other GS players struggle to score on the break, even against weak guard defenders.
I noticed that he’s a good screener, actually. I didn’t see that before.
Honestly, I don’t think that it’s his 3-pt % or not the most polished handle on the drives that’s keeping him from being a guaranteed 30-plus-minute-a-game starter. And I don’t necessarily think that it’s the system that’s holding him back. System-shmystem. If he just rebounded more, especially the offensive glass, it would probably do it and would keep him in the games. And he would score 20+ almost every night, often 30+. With or without Steph on the floor, the two are not mutually exclusive.
Also, he might fit even worse on other teams that don’t have so many willing passers. For example, I can’t imagine him enjoying playing with Ayton more than with Draymond and TJD.
I get that Kerr wants him to play himself into the lineup. Like Thompson twins, who give you so much that their coaches have no choice but to play them. But Kuminga, after playing well, has a stretch of bad games in him, and I see why Kerr would want to take him off.
And it’s a big problem that Kuminga thinks that Kerr is his enemy and is holding him back. Sometimes he has a body language that says: ‘You don’t want me to make mistakes? Okay, I will just stand in the corner and won’t make mistakes.’ He’s not helping himself. For a player in his situation, there’s no reason not to exert effort, even for a coach he dislikes.
But Kerr always tries to be in control and always be more clever than the opponent. And sometimes you don’t have to be more clever and come up with a smart way to get Gobert from under the basket, to switch onto Conley and drive and score. Sometimes you have a player like Kuminga who’s so good that he will drive past Reid and McDaniels, and will score on Rudy 5-10 times in a game.
But Kerr overthinks.
And it looks like any swinging dіck can break the rotation and play 20+ minutes 5 games in a row, taking valuable playing time. Kuminga is still 22. He needs those minutes.
It’s hard to make sense of him :) After watching him closely, I will be a little more conservative in my estimations of what he can become. I wouldn’t say with confidence that he’s on Giddey’s and Avdija’s trajectory, who changed air and are breaking out. But the talent is there.
Anyway, GS would be stupid not to sign him to 4/80-85m if he’s willing to accept it. Or give him a bit more if that’s what it takes to convince him and his people.
It’s also in Warriors best interest to sign Kuminga to a decent contract if we are serious about getting something in value for Kuminga at Dec deadline.
Butler contract took away the money they had available for Kuminga. They offered him about the same contract he wants now without a no trade clause. He tunred it down last year. So now they spent the money on Butler they can’t offer the same contract this year.
They cant offer 4 yrs for $90-100m with PO?? Or 3 yrs for $68m with PO??
Pretty sure they would have done like 5/125M without blinking an eye if Kumingas floor on the ask wasnt the Jalen Johnson contract.
Michol, they can’t find a trade partner with an open/yet to be determined salary slot !!
How are they going to find a trade partner at that kind of money for a guy nobody wants?
Then they’d be stuck with him like all those other teams with all those other contracts they can’t get rid of.
Warriors are a little smarter than that.
They’re not going to handcuff themselves and give this guy big money and be stuck with him. That ain’t gonna happen.
A lot of avid Warriors fans have been wrong about Moody and Poole extensions. They both got paid BY Warriors. Kuminga will get paid. Fans were saying 2 yrs $25, or 2 yrs $40. We now know 2 yr $45 was offered. Again, he needs to have decent size tradable contract for us to get someone good at the deadline.
4/90M is a tradable contract. Thats salary matching for a bunch of guys and a whole lot more if you add Moody.
Like I think Dunleavy is lowballing him too much because Kuminga cant generate a counter above the 8M QO. He could have one of his stretches where he really balls out for 8 weeks and have a good deal of positive trade value on a deal that actually gets you some good players in return.
Unless they just dump him for no value he is coming back. Like I dont see the Kings upping the offer to the point where GSW say yes. Like the Kings deal requires more value from SAC, and so many other pieces to move. SAC has to dump Monk/DDR while taking less money back in order to even make the offers they have said.
BYC means its super hard to get any present value players coming back, so the only thing that will move the needle for GSW are real value 1sts with minimal to no protections. Even then GSW needs matching salary and a player to trade for to improve.
It all just gets so much easier if he is on a reasonable contract after BYC isnt involved. Then you can do 3 way trades where Kuminga has value on a good contract, and the Warriors have a 20M ish contract as matching.
Chap, JK is definitely NOT coming back. It’s over.
With everything Lacob has said publicly, in his office he is seething over this atrocious JK situation.
No one holds Joe Lacob over a barrel over money.
No one holds up his precious franchise and the Al Horford DeAndre Melton contracts.
There is absolutely no way Jonathan Kuminga comes back and suits up for the Warriors.
The other factor is Kuminga agent only wants a huge contract. Is why he is trying to force a trade. Both teams kings and Suns could make trades and lower payroll for a signing but neither team is willing to pay him the amount without forcing warriors to take bad contracts.
Gary, I’d disagree with you on every point. There is zero emotion involved. Lacob is not a child. And no VC successful VC makes deals out of emotion.
This is about securing an asset. Whether they plan to keep or trade Kuminga, they will do that first.
Lacob and Dunleavey are actively recruiting Kuminga now. They both see Kuminga as an important part of the Warriors future, post-Steph.
Trading him requires an offer they feel is worth doing. Combine that with BYC and it becomes so hard so fast. Most of the current offers would HC GSW at the 1st apron and ruin the rest of there plans.
On top it sounds like his agent has come around on taking a deal that isnt aweful that lets you move on a few months into the season.
Like I get it with the optics, but it just seems to complicated to make most things work. Do we think SAC ups the offer? The PHX offer is about the best they can make.
I think Ayo/White for Kuminga if CHI is interested is just about the only thing that could work contractually, and give GSW back value.
I dont think Lacob is involved. If he was he would give Kuminga more money because he does like him a lot. This situation is all the evidence we need that MDJ is running the show without interference. It also sounds like MDJ is maybe low balling a little to much, and Kuminga wouldnt actually mind coming back if he knows its probably short term, and he got paid in a way he thinks is fair ish.
The fact of the matter is, the Warriors were always going to trade Jonathan Kuminga.
He’s been on the block 2 1/2 years.
They just haven’t found anyone that holds him in high regard and Warriors fans know why.
He has no skill set and has no desire to build a skill set.
He thinks he’s good enough as he is because he can jump through the roof and “he’s capable of making the three.”
Jonathan Kuminga doesn’t know the difference between “capable of making the three” and “becoming a three-point shooter.”
We all know those guys. We yell at them when they shoot it but they bark back,
“I can make that shot.”
Yeah, well I can make an ill advised half quart shot too, but being a consistent shooter is another story and it’s 10,000 shots a month.
Brandon Clarke and a future pick …..
he can backup Jimmy and strengthen the bench. Plus they can use that pick at TD to level up for playoffs.
Bulls got Giddey straight up for Caruso ….
Kuminga can start at the 3 for Memphis. This way they add another scorer. And take thr pressure off team trade of Bane. He would be nice next to Ja and JJ. I do it right now if I’m Memphis. Only If I’m Grizz I want him signed to three year deal. 25 mill a yr with last yr TO.
This way I get assurances. Kuminga there can put 24 a gm. This way he gets his bag 💰now. In three yrs he can get maxed out. If he is who he says he is. He will be 25-26 yrs old …. Wow.
Of course you would do it right now if you’re Memphis. Brandon Clarke on his best day is your ninth man. He’s 6-8 and can’t shoot.
So if you’re the Warriors, you’re taking back another undersized 4 man to go with your other undersized 4 man and you’re going to get beat up on the boards AGAIN in the playoffs.
How does this improve the team? You don’t trade a potential starter for a potential 9th man.
Maybe they are wrong for it, but they have time on their side so theWarriors are holding out for a player, a good player, and one first round pick.
Let’s see who blinks first.
No he is a three. And one of best defenders in NBA and solid rebounder. Not the shooter Caruso is but a better defyand rebounder. Plus you get a pick. You want some kind of great deal. And yet you trash Kuminga for all he hasn’t done. You caohave it birh ways. This is a better deal than Thunder got forGiddey.
Warriors can help him with his shot. Not that far off.
“Brandon Clarke can back up Jimmy?”
At what the shooting guard? Small forward? Ridiculous.
What’s ridiculous is you thinking you will get value. All you Warriors fans here who have told us for yrs. How bad Kuminga is. And now you think you deserve sone great package. Thats F n ridiculous lol
When Al sells a car, he puts it in craigslist for the bottom dollar of the first weekend. Lol.
Don’t you start high Al, and then come down when you need to?
Isn’t that regular business practice? How can that be ridiculous?
Al, you’re one guy who’s never admitted when he’s wrong. Someone can point out things to you and yet you’ll fight to be right. You’re a proud man Al.
Dude are you this dumb. You don’t want me to get personal K. Its been years with Kuminga. You have a post on here saying he’s been on trade block for 2 1/2 yrs. Warriors have set the market for him by his misuse. Why do you think no-one is offering anything. Don’t make this about me. What you are doing here is still crying.
I am probably the biggest Kuminga guy on this board. Have supported him thru all your whining. And have for TWO yrs posted the Warriors have not developed him right. Get it right.
You’re already getting personal. You call everyone names and make it personal.
I’m just saying your basketball takes here are generally no good. There’s a difference.
But go ahead and make it personal. It seems like your MO. I can take it.
Brandon Clarke is only 28 yrs old. He is in his prime. And is a sixth man on 90% of teams in NBA. Warriors have no one like him. He is as good a defender as Jimmy. And its obvious you still DONT know what that meant to Warriors. Brandon is a long three. Can guard the 4-3-2-1 very few can do that. I know you have NO CLUE what that means. Its only half the freakin game lol …….
In – 21 mins career, 10.2 pts, 5.5 reb, FG% .606. These are almost better than Kumingas stats now. Plus you get a pick. Warriors started winning cause Jimmy brought that D there. This guy will only add and help Jimmy there. So the Warriors don’t burn him out. You will never do better than this.
Too bad its only me offering.
@KnickAl
You claiming he’s a 3 doesn’t make him one – he plays the 4 for the Grizzlies. He’s also a terrible fit for Kerrball due to his poor 3 pt shooting.
Claiming is your word. Clarke is smaller than OG. I can name 50 SF who are bigger. Just cause a team fields 5 players. Doesn’t mean one of them is a 4. There is a reason why the PF term is used to describe a 4. That definition doesn’t apply to Clarke. He plays the 4 cause teams go small more today. Teams play more a perimeter game today. So someone is given the title of 4. Brandon Clarke has played the 3 since college. His best position is the 3.
The greatest threes of all time are all as big or bigger than Clarke.
Shooting is not the whole game. And defense is half the game. A shooter is only needed when he is on. A defender and rebounder is needed all the time. Plus he happens to be a solid team player ……….
If you know anything about the Warriors and Butler. You should understand why Clarke would fit the rotation like a glove.
@KnickAl
SF’s have to be able to shoot from 10ft to outside the arc. Clarke shot 6% from three last season and took 45% of his shots at the rim and another 30% inside 10 ft.
He’s played the 4 his entire NBA career, because he can’t shoot. His ability to play defense doesn’t make him a 3.
Like the destination but that future pick better be nice for this to work.
I look at it like this. Brandon makes their bench deeper. They can use the pick to level up at TD. Warriors don’t need a future pick. Their window is next 3yrs only. Brandon is there for that lol. A pick brings in another trade.
I’d take the trade offer for Kuminga right now…. Richards seems like a piece of our puzzle and shooting with O’Neale plus 4 seconds… really? Come on talent that and move on
I buy into that thinking to a certain degree.
But if that’s the offer today, August 1 imagine the offer on October 1? Could it be better? Even September 1? Maybe some team budges a little?
And yes, this Suns offer sure is a heck of a lot better than the King’s offer a week ago of Dario Saric plus Carter plus a protected first.
And who said the Warriors don’t know what they are doing? Wow. This is negotiation 101.
OCT 1 the QO kicks in and GSW can just have Kuminga at 8M and have a bunch of trade flexibility for in season deals on players in the 10-20M range.
I get you waiting it out. Nothing wrong with that. Just remember most teams are not going to help Warriors. And this isn’t a real offer. The two offers that are real Suns, Kings. Aren’t better than this. So don’t expect much better.
Hard caps you at the first apron you dont get Melton/Horford who are both getting a bit more than the min Im almost sure, and you dont have any flexibility in season.
Richards has never been positive and really doesnt fit the motion offense, and Oniell is declining quickly on a deal with 3 more seasons, whos almost as old as Draymond, that was an overpay because PHX was 2nd apron and couldnt let him walk with the title hopes last year.
And so are the days of our lives….entertaining soup opera this.
Oh my goodness no kidding. What a dumpster fire.
Going back-and-forth with Knickerbocker Al is an exercise in frustration.
Just remember I’m all about balling.
I’m trying Al but you make it difficult. You’re so abrasive. When we don’t agree with you, you call us dumb or dummies or how stupid are we etc.
And then you say you’re all about Ball.., you’re not you’re all about ball, you’re about insults if someone doesn’t agree with you.
You’ve been full of BS for a long time, but I’ve always supported you. I’ve always been polite with you. Now you’re dragging me in with everyone else. Not cool. You’re not going to get a good reaction that way. Human nature takes over.
Lose the pride, talk Hoops and quit calling people names and don’t get so agitated all the time.
I’m not like half the clowns on here. If I say something it’s cause I believe it. We all have to accept some bashing. It comes with the territory.
I never have started anything first. I’m old enough to let them do it more than once. Then I will just take over. And I never insult anyone first. Even after I just show how much you really don’t know. I will make you wear your own words.
Like this
When Al sells a car, he puts it in craigslist for the bottom dollar of the first weekend. Lol.
Don’t you start high Al, and then come down when you need to?
Isn’t that regular business practice? How can that be ridiculous?
Al, you’re one guy who’s never admitted when he’s wrong. Someone can point out things to you and yet you’ll fight to be right. You’re a proud man Al.
When Al sells a car, he puts it in craigslist for the bottom dollar of the first weekend. Lol.
Don’t you start high Al, and then come down when you need to?
Isn’t that regular business practice? How can that be ridiculous?
Al, you’re one guy who’s never admitted when he’s wrong. Someone can point out things to you and yet you’ll fight to be right. You’re a proud man Al.
———————-
Being proud has nothing to do with your knowledge of the game. And this is how dumb people respond to a sincere take. You more than most know how long I have been talking about Kuminga. And today since the day he was drafted. I’m still saying same things. I’m the real thing. I know ball. And have no problem admitting when I’m wrong.
Ok, fair enough