The Kings have been linked to restricted free agent Jonathan Kuminga for weeks but there’s little common ground in sign-and-trade talks with the Warriors.
The Athletic’s Sam Amick said on the Warriors Plus Minus podcast (hat tip to BasketNews) that Golden State isn’t interested in either DeMar DeRozan or Devin Carter as part of a trade package.
“My understanding is the Warriors weren’t interested in Carter or DeRozan. As of a couple of weeks ago, the Kings weren’t willing to pay Kuminga into the $20 million range,” Amick said.
Multiple reports have indicated Kuminga and his agent are seeking a contract in the $30MM range annually.
The Sacramento Bee’s Jason Anderson reports that the Kings have not given up in their pursuit of a sign-and-trade deal for Kuminga and offered Golden State a package of Carter, Dario Saric and draft compensation, which could include a protected first-round pick or multiple second-round picks.
Anderson speculates the Warriors would likely make a deal with Sacramento if the Kings were willing to add Keegan Murray or Keon Ellis to the mix. However, Anderson hears that Murray and Ellis have not been discussed in those negotiations and are considered off limits by the Kings.
ESPN’s Anthony Slater reported last week that the Warriors would like to add a talented young player and a first-rounder for Kuminga. The Suns have been identified as another suitor for Kuminga but don’t possess the draft capital Golden State is seeking.
Slater added in a radio interview relayed by Anderson that the 22-year-old forward came away with a good impression after a recent meeting with Kings representatives, which included general manager Scott Perry, assistant GM B.J. Armstrong and head coach Doug Christie.
“He’s open-minded to the idea of Sacramento. … I think part of that – I know part of that pitch – is you’re talking starting role, you’re talking bigger opportunity than the Warriors are necessarily offering right now. And I think that’s the part that shouldn’t get lost in this situation,” Slater said. “Jonathan Kuminga isn’t just looking for the exact contract he wants in free agency. He’s looking for the opportunity he wants on the court.”
Slater and ESPN’s Shams Charania report that the Warriors are making a stronger push to resolve the Kuminga impasse but he continues to reject their two-year, $45MM contract offer. Kuminga’s decision is due in large part to the Warriors’ insistence on having a team option for the second season and their unwillingness to let him maintain the built-in no-trade clause, the ESPN duo adds.
His agent, Aaron Turner, presented the Warriors several proposals this month, including a three-year deal worth around $82MM that would allow them to stay below the second tax apron.
The Suns have been the most aggressive team pursuing Kuminga, including a proposal of up to four years and approximately $90MM for Kuminga with a player option for the final season, per ESPN’s report.
In recent days, Golden State has begun signaling a plan to cut off sign-and-trade conversations entirely, according to Charania and Slater. The Warriors have the ability to play hard ball with Kuminga, figuring he could either accept their contract offer or sign his qualifying offer of $7.9MM and become an unrestricted free agent next summer.
Keon Ellis would be EXACTLY what the Warriors need, someone to run the 2nd unit and be a defensive presence on the court. I’m not saying he would be the main center piece of any trade involving JK but he would definitely should be something MDJ gets back.
that is what I don’t understand about the Kings if they want Kuminga why not trade players of value. Neither Carter or Saric has any value and Saric is a negative value. No team would take that trade proposal serious. Neither Ellis or Muarry are future all stars so why not add 1 of them in a trade package?
Because they don’t want Kuminga. At least not at the price the Warriors are asking. They’re plenty happy feeding into the problem so that the Warriors stay deadlocked.
The real question is – If the Warriors won’t pay him 25 million or more, why would any team feel obligated to send “a talented young player and a 1st”? Why not just wait until next season? Or wait until the TD to make a move for a far smaller contract? And if a good young player + a frp is what GS is comparing his value to then why would they not just pay him?
Two time line thing didn’t work and now they have to sleep in the bed they made. No other GM is looking to fix their problem for them while also getting worse because of it.
So you are saying the kings only want Kuminga if they can trade them their cast offs? Even you know Carter and Saric are not worth anything. Being a Kings fan what players is Kuminga worth?
My perspective is probably a little skewed just based on how I see the roster. For the sake of conversation I would put JKs overall value close to Murray straight up. But being as Murray is one of the very few shooters on the roster, it doesn’t make sense to do that. Keon, while not a better player than Kuminga, holds much more value based on his contract especially if the end result is trading him. Everyone else on the roster is either far more or far less valuable. Thats where the frp comes in and if history has taught us anything it’s that the King’s frps are infinitely valuable until they are on the clock.
Im saying the Kings would be happy to take Kuminga for their scraps. If that can’t happen then they are still happy to push the current narrative forward and impact GS’s current and future offseasons.
So what you are saying you don’t want Kuminga at any cost and rather go with what the Kings already have. That is fine you don’t care for Kuminga to be on your team and value the players they have over Kuminga. No problem with that.
Not at all what Im saying. Im saying I don’t want Kuminga if it costs Murray or Keon because it doesn’t make sense for the roster as currently constructed. If I had insight on what the current FO has intentions of doing in the next 3-5 seasons that might be different. I, just as much as the Kings, would love to add JK if it only costs Carter + Saric + light draft compensation. That is a no brainer on every level. It’s also apparently the only deal on the table.
If that’s the best offer why not take it? Why continue to handicap the entire organization because your value on a player is higher than anyone else’s except for his agent? Why risk him leaving for nothing? I’m not saying that if Im GS I’m chomping at the bit to get my hands on Carter but at a certain point you have to cut your losses. This is why every team in the NBA is fine letting this play out until GS realizes they’re stuck. They can afford to wait. The Warriors can’t.
it would be better for the warriors to get nothing then take on 2 bad contracts. Why waste cap space on 2 players they don’t want? Warriors don’t owe favors to Kuminga and the Kings. Kings have 1st round picks why not include them in the trade.
Whoever gives that first rounder out may as well hand in his resignation. It’s not about what you want for your team. All teams are playing hard ball under this CBA. How about the kings ask for a first attached to take on a bad player and bad contract? That’s the message the Warriors have been sending with this guy for years now.
??? What bad player or contract the warriors are trading? Sometimes you make no sense.
How are DC and Saric bad contracts? You said the same thing about Demar. Not sure how you figure that nothing is better than DC either. And the Kings shouldn’t include frps because… they suck? Why would a team clearly heading towards a complete tear down trade away their draft assets? To take a chance on Kuminga? You seem to be as stubborn on this as the Warriors are.
You say his value is more than DC/Saric/ Protected frp but nobody else has offered anything so how can you come to that conclusion?
carter is defense only guard the warriors can sign GP2 for few million less to do the same. Warriors had Saric and his defense was bad. So bad they barely played him in the second half. Even the Nuggets didn’t play him much. Why would the warriors want 2 players they don’t need when the payroll is so thin they need the money to sign players they could use off the bench?
… except they can’t sign anyone at the moment. And the resolution that lets them do that is getting rid of Kuminga or setting him up to leave for nothing.
Are you familiar with the phrase “pick your poison”? As of right now the Warriors have to decide between getting a minimal return or no return.
You don’t gift a team in your division with a free player and take their scrubs. I rather see him take a QO and leave next year then take bad players.
It’s the CBA, duh.
At arc. Kuminga….he isn’t worth anything according to you and the Warriors brass. Been obvious how they’ve played him. Tried playing his worth down yet want some ridiculous return. It’s me that doesn’t make sense. Considering this, why would the Kings add a first? That’s delusional. Nothing wrong with Monk, pull the trigger and move on.
I never said he isn’t worth anything just not worth $30 million a year he wants. Why would the warriors take some scrub players that the don’t want and use up cap space? that makes no sense so Kings need to either find another team that will trade them better players that are worth something. Why would the warriors take 2 bad players just to help out the Kings and kuminga? They wouldn’t. Better just let him walk next year.
For nothing….you don’t want Kuminga in the locker room at this point, go get Monk if you can. Last thing you want in the twilight of Steph’s career is a divided locker room.
You dont want Kuminga making to little so that you have no salary matching. You also dont want him making to much so his contract is seen as bad with him overpaid. Its a goldilocks situation where the team wants his contract right in a sweet spot.
Like I think the 4/90M deal would be one of the better values since its not onerously expensive, but also gives a team acquiring him enough team control to add some value there.
That’s fine and dandy chap. You just have to talk Kuminga‘s camp into doing it. They want 30 not 23.
They may want 23M if it becomes clear that the only two options are that or 8M. They have a Oct 1st deadline.
Why this talk of DeRozen, is that even possible? Tell you what is possible, signing Kuminga at $25 per and trading for Monk. A bucket and energy guy off the bench. Kings aren’t giving up a first and Suns don’t have a first to give.
Kings don’t want to pay him $25 million. When will you listen? Look at what they are offering.
To you, never. You haven’t clue what the kings want or what they’re offering. Or just a clue in general. Kings could easily do this, especially considering DeRozen will be out the door soon enough.
Read the article again. The Kings are offering Saric, Carter and 2 2nds. This offer is a few weeks old. The Warriors are definitely not taking Saric back, and the Kings haven’t changed the offer. They are also not willing to go over $20 million. The sources for the article are pretty well placed.
Lols…how about you read again. Some dude on a warriors pod cast and some dude from the Sacramento bee’s, whatever that is. Using words like COULD. From my understanding. Speculate on a hoops rumours (rumors) website. Don’t get me wrong it’s fun to read and Speculate. But that’s all ot is. Grow up Peter Pan.
One of those dudes is King’s beat writer for the largest newspaper in Sacramento. The proposal was also published by NBC Sports 4 weeks ago. You need to catchup tinkerbelle.
A newspaper….lols. fantastic, must be legit. NBC sports, lols. Name drop any and all media outlets you like. It’s doesn’t make it true. Key words….Could, from my understanding, sources say, anonymous execs etc etc. It’s all BS. None of these guys, whose job is it to suck in people like you for attention are in the know. NONE.
Kings are going to dump Monk and his contract for a project. At least not until Sabonis and LaVine are gone. They’re not in any sort of position to do that. I fully anticipate one or both of them are gone by the deadline. This roster is expensive and non competitive. Those two can’t coexist for a successful franchise.
Then again, The Sacramento Kings and being a successful franchise can’t coexist either so who knows.
Aren’t. We desperately need an edit button lol.
Wait won’t dump monk but you expect him gone by the deadline? Or DeRozen gone, who is touching that? DeRozen is hardly the end game. Kuminga has many years ahead of him. Who does DeRozen coexist with? Lavine……kings being kings. I could care less what the Warriors do, it’s just funny watching some of their fanbase completely losing it. If Kuminga is in San Fran this season. We’ll be witnessing an absolute train wreck.
One or both of Sabonis and LaVine. In all likelihood Demar will be released next offseason being as his contract is only guaranteed to about 10 mil. I would hope that they’re at least trying to move him to someone desperate when the td rolls around even if it’s for minimal gain. A LaVine trade is much harder to pull off because of his salary but again, teams get desperate. I have no clue what a Domas deal nets you but it’s more than the other two.
Im just waiting for Jimmy to get fed up about the JK stuff. Thats when the real train wreck starts.
So it’d make sense to get younger no? Or a project as you called kuminga.
Kings don’t have budget to acquire Kuminga
2026-27 season
6 players $150 million
add Kuminga and Murray $50 million
8 players Total = $200 million
Imo Bucks should be all over Kuminga. He fits Giannis like a glove. There he can start. And Bucks desperately need to impress Giannis. And they have picks they can use. How else can Bucks hit a HR.
Because the Warriors don’t have a lot of leverage in terms of what they can get back from teams. Why give up a real player of value if you don’t have to?
And, more to the point, Ellis > Kuminga right now and there’s no guarantee that changes down the line. Plus, Ellis provides things that the Kings are sorely lacking in. Maybe that changes after some future trades, but right now he is a vital part of their roster construction. If you give him up for Kuminga you might as well go full rebuild and they don’t see intent on that path yet.
Ellis can’t run the 2nd unit, he’s not a PG. His ball handling and playmaker is subpar. He is a spot up 3pt shooter and defender.
Yeah he is a pure 3/D guy. He would be GPII with slightly worse defense than peak GP but much better shooting.
Kuminga is better than Ellis or Murray. Guaranteed …
Kings are just testing Warriors …. no team is going to accommodate the Warriors in a trade.
Correct – reality
Kuminga is better than any of Ellis or Murray
Equal value formula
Kuminga = Murray + a Future First
Kuminga is all about potential
Kuminga is 22 years old
Murray is 24 years old
Schroeder, LaVine, Derozen, Monk, Sabonis.
Where exactly do his 25 shots a game come from?
Yeah, that’d be a problem, JK. I guess he and his agent either overlooked that or are high wishful thinkers.
Warriors need to stop lowballing him or let him go.
the same can be said for teams wanting him and they can stop low balling teh warriors with scab players. Why can’t the Kings offer Muarry or Ellis instead if they want Kuminga?
Because everyone would rather have Murray or Ellis. And why not just wait a year and get him for nothing.
looks like that what will happen. Kuminga agent doesn’t wnat him to sign a contract that can easily be traded at the deadline. If he gets a QO he has no trade powers and a free agent next year. The warriors want to trade him and get some value back but Kuminga agent only wants a big pay day.
Really both sides don’t have a lot of leverage. Kuminga hasn’t shown worth his asking price and the warriors are in a situation where they need to do other roster moves and get this done sooner than later. Kuminga signing the qualifying offer helps him dictate his situation but also take a massive loss in potential earnings especially if the season he doesn’t show he’s improving. Warriors don’t want to lose him for nothing and potentially bring back a malcontent.
Kuminga in that locker room and walking for nothing next off-season will be the worst possible outcome for Golden State. Don’t exactly have seasons to waste.
Dude you really don’t get it. Warriors are capped out. They can’t sign Kuminga (not even for 20 mill). Cause they won’t have their mid to sign Horford. Even if they sign n trade Kuminga. The money coming back puts them in cap purgatory. They would have to cut a player to sign Horford. So they have to play this waiting game. It’s in Warriors best interest to have Kuminga sign the QO at this point.
I’m quite sure this is not true. They need to sequence the Kuminga signing before Horford and Melton. They can do this while offering JK $20+ million. They just need to stay under the 2nd apron, which they can.
Warriors are at 181.4 mill now according to Hoopshype. 20 mill gets them close.
On this site it shows 170 million without Kuminga. On hoopshype they show kuminga with a 10.5 million contract is why they show 181.4.
Really didn’t bother to look. Yes he is down for 10 mill. But all searches say they are hard cap and only have 17 mill to spend. And if they do it means they lose their mid right. My understanding this why all the drama with Kuminga right now…
Warriors hard cap themselves when they gave Buttler that extension. Kuminga agents last year turned down a good offer wanting a max but now the warriors can’t even offer that deal again until Butler comes off the books. First apron is $195 million so they have 25 million to spend on 6 players.
Teams may value Murray higher, but its close between them. Ellis is not as valuable as Kuminga in any world.
They wont get s*** next offseason. For one thing a bunch of teams project to have cap space, but not the Kings. For another if he has any options at all why would he choose SAC? That teams a mess with one of the sports worst owners.
2 of the warriors reporters were saying they don’t want Kuminga to have a no trade clause because then if he takes the QO he will refuse to other teams and just be a free agent. Sounds like his agent doesn’t want a deal just a big pay day so he can get a huge agent pay day. The warriors should offer the 2nd year as a player’s option as long as the no trade clause is gone. That would make a S/T easy to do in dec.
I think the team and Kuminga would be better with a 2+1 since it gives his new team a full year under contract before they have to decide on paying him, and Kuminga gets 3 potential years of guaranteed money if something happens to him. Of course zero NTC.
A 1+1 still has Implicit NTC. Hence why RFAs don’t sign 1+1s.
Not sure if that still applies to the first time FA. Thats what happens on a vet 1+1. Also I think the minimum on an offer sheet is 3 seasons which is the main reason that players sign for at least that.
It happens on any 1+1 that re-signs.
An Offer Sheet is required to be at least TWO seasons (NOT including options)
The proposed 1+1s aren’t legal (which doesn’t surprise me).
From everything I searched. If he signs QO. He will be traded at the QO value. And he has no say. But then he could leave. So it makes sense he would have to agree to team. There is no incentive at this time to sign Kuminga before Oct 1st. Unless a team offers great value, then they can do a sign n trade. Got to Oct 1 st lol…
Trading Players on QO:
Unless a player has a no-trade clause, any player under contract, including those on a QO, can be traded.
No-Trade Clause:
This clause, typically found in longer, more lucrative contracts, allows a player to veto any trade.
QO and Free Agency:
A QO does not prevent a player from becoming a free agent if the qualifying offer expires without being accepted or withdrawn by either the player or the team, according to the NBA.
Boomer. Google “Implicit No Trade”.
“In the NBA, an “implicit no-trade clause” refers to a situation where a player, while not having a formally written no-trade clause in their contract, effectively has the power to veto a trade due to the rules surrounding Bird rights. This most commonly occurs when a player signs a one-year or two-year (with an option) deal to re-sign with their current team.”
Took all of 5 seconds.
The QO automatically falls into this.
It is incredible that some of you guys spend hours on this site typing novellas in the comments… and learn absolutely nothing.
Because his accepting $7.5 million means that if he gets hurt this season, his value plummets, and teams are making offers, including the Warriors, that are significantly more than that. If the Warriors were smart, they’d call his bluff and make him accept the QO or take their offer.
His agent is not the smartest tool in the shed. All he is doing is making the offers lower because they know nobody wants to offer him any money. He made it known that he wants out but he wants to tell teh warriors where he wants to play and he wants the other team to pay him a max deal.
If Kuminga takes a QO, his situation won’t be special. Every player going into the contract year faces that risk.
If Coby White signs for 140% of what he’s making now for 4 years, that would be about 72M, and Chicago would be glad to offer it. If Coby gets seriously injured, he’s not getting paid that next year. And yet nobody is making that big of a deal out of that. But for Kuminga taking a QO is a ‘gigantic gamble’.
Kuminga will have a sore Hamstring and back issues a lot.
He hasn’t accepted anything yet. Warriors offered so they keep his rights for another year. If no team makes an offer. He will sign the QO on Oct 1st. Then it goes in the books.
Kuminga is 100% worth way more than Dario Saric. Other teams have to stop lowballing GSW.
They aren’t lowballing him. They’re offering him $23 million/year. That’s fair market value. on what planet is Jonathan Kuminga worth more than that? Because he had a good playoff series, where he ballhogged and no one else was playing? Where he got pulled because he wouldn’t pass the ball or play defense? FOH
For a guy so athletic, I’ve seen way too many times where he just ball watches and doesn’t do the truly aggressive plays while leveraging his rebounding, etc.
Truly amazing to me … he had the opportunity to show out last year when the vets wanted to coast during a game and he gave them zilch.
It was interesting that he was usually his best off ball while attacking the rim but when he was the POA on offense, he’d get stuffed or derailed on his drives.
He over helps in the paint and leaves shooters wide open from 3pt way to frequently also
So a 3 year deal at $82 million means Kuminga camp wants $27.5 million a year. So as you can see its about the money. That is barely less than the $30 million he demanded last year. I would like to know what the Suns S/T proposal is sinc ethey don’t have a 1st round pick to trade.
Random vets who are overpaid because the Suns had no alternatives with the second apron. Like no I wont do a deal for Royce on his contract soorrrryy.
Arc/Gary would you guys do a trade with Portland involving Jerami Grant and possibly one of those guards they have at their disposal? I’m not sure what the cap would be, but it would be a nice deal for both teams. Portland gets younger with JK and GSW gets possibly a guy who will be hungry and wants to win with JB and Steph? I know spacing wise it wouldn’t be great, but Grant would give Dray lesser minutes and maintain his effectiveness late into the season and playoffs.
Maybe Jrue if they are aiming high?
unfortunately the warriors can’t bring back more than $12.5 million a year in a trade package for Kuminga. Warriors payroll makes it hard to make a trade with 3 players taking in the most money. Only players making mid money is Heild and Moody. Moody is young and they have no reason to trade him unless getting another young player back.
Preciate the analysis as always!
Thanks the Butler trade really handicaped the warriors ability to do trades with limited amount of money available to trade.
I mean its just the contracts they have had for a while. You have 2 max guys, Dray who they dont want to trade at 27M, and nobody else making over 11M.
They need to resign Kuminga just for the salary slot so they have a real contract that can be matching in another deal.
Also POR is very pricy for how bad they are, so they would have a very difficult time staying under the apron, while GSW would need 20M more in salary outgoing to match that would have to go elsewhere.
Another thing I’ve heard is that kind of the shine has come off the Jeremi Grant statue.
He hasn’t lived up to his promise as a Pascal Siakam light, even though he’s paid for that unrealized promise.
Not kind of … it’s completely from last year lol.
Golden State won’t pay Kuminga a fair salary, won’t play him minutes over scrubs… but think he’s worth a first round pick and a young player, along with his new team paying him $25M a year?
This current Warriors organization is laughably incompetent. It’s amazing how drafting three all stars 15 years ago and then having an ownership group willing to spend $500M to keep them together somehow qualifies as a great organization these days.
his new team paying him $25 million a year is coming from Kuminga’s agent. Why the warriors want him to sign a 2 year $40 million deal so they can trade him. A $30 million a year deal will make him hard to trade. So they are getting mix signals from Kuminga camp. If he wants to leave sign a short $20 million a year deal contract that can be traded.
He’d be foolish to sign that garbage $45 million offer, especially since it has a team option.
If they really won’t trade him for the best offer they get, then he should just sign the qualifying offer and leave asap.
Plenty of dumb teams with cap space next offseason would love to overpay a 23 year old. Kuminga just has to be patient, and since they keep screwing with his minutes, he clearly wants a fresh start.
Kuminga agent is making it hard because this is his only big name player he represents. So Kuminga is his cash cow. Why does he want a no trade clause in a 2 year deal? No team is going to trade for him unless they plan to give him a lot of minutes. So getting traded will get him to a team with unlimited minutes.
@Wolves
Signing the QO means he stays, and then next offseason probably still needs the Warriors help to get to most destinations.
The QO giving him a NTC, and the fact that his salary will be soooo low make it harder to trade than 20M not easier. There are almost no players that the 8M QO would match, so who you trading for that makes the team better, who also happens to be on a 5M salary?
Dude he wants a no trade clause. There is a reason this hasnt happened. Kuminga along with the other RFA have absolutely no leverage or ability to get any bidding going. The teams just are playing hard ball since in the modern second apron world you dont just give out no negotiation over pays when you dont have to.
Like if this wasnt happening with Giddy, Thomas, and Grimes it would be more of an inditement on GSW. As things sit though it looks like young incomplete players and their agents arent coming to terms with the reality of the market when no other team will sign an offer sheet.
i don’t get why they are demanding a no trade clause when Kuminga is mad about playing time with the warriors. Wouldn’t they want him traded to a team that is going to give him more playing time?
It basically means they get to go negotiate the trade since he has to approve anything. Kumingas camp finds his next team, and then tries to convince the GSW to take whatever they can offer.
The Warriors are demanding that he agrees to waive the built in No Trade Clause that would accompany their one year guarantee with a TO in the second year. The NTC is collectively bargained into these types of contracts, he is refusing to waive that small bit of leverage that he has in these RFA negotiations.
He would be getting an extra $11 milliom next year more than the QO. So for an extra $11 million he waives his no trade clause.
BIRD RIGHTS.
They aren’t “demanding a NTC”. It is a something that comes with the contract structure to protect players from losing their ability to get paid.
They’ve upset higher seeds the last two seasons in a loaded West. That’s a success. The only incompetence they’ve shown is their inability to add a true center.
There aren’t many centers who could even play the style ball the warriors play.
I think they believe that Kuminga, Murray and Ellis will make a good young core, and allow them to move off of Derozen and Lavine.
It kind of defeats that premise if they have to include either of them in the trade to get Kuminga.
I know it’s difficult to do, but they may have to figure out a way to add a third team to make it work for both sides to get what they want.
Other than Ellis/Murray who do the Kings have that GSW want in the rotation? On top of that DeRozan and Lavine are probably both negative assets the team has already been trying to get off of. I would guess they tried moving DD already this offseason and there were no takers.
So unless SAC wants to pony up two 1sts with the bad contracts theyre offering where are you getting an asset from? Like the team would have to offload multiple contracts without taking money back just to have the apron room to give Kuminga his deal. GSW cant take back more than 12M. SAC needs like 25M in outgoing salary half of which will go elsewhere, and they need a 3rd team to send a player to GSW that they actually want.
100% … if they want to offload those bad contracts, offer an additional pick lol. The draft capital that’s being floated out is just terrible.
The guy who seems to have been in the 6th man conversation for many years now and coming into his prime. Monk would be awesome for Golden State in my opinion. They can then sign Al and move on.
If the suns had not spent next year’s protected 1st and four 2nd’s on mark williams they would have something to trade for kuminga. I actually like kuminga on the suns. Argg the suns are frustrating.
“their unwillingness to let him maintain the built-in no-trade clause”
I assume if he waives the no-trade part, it would also allow his full Bird rights to go with him in a trade. Would that be right?
His Bird would move in the trade either way. Its just GSW doesnt want the headache of clearing a trade with him when the teams most interested in him may not have any players the Warriors want. You dont want to be in a situation where he falls in love with going to one team and tells you its them or nothing.
Also the keeping the NTC that comes attached to the 1/8M QO when you get a real deal is an idiotic ask.
No, it wouldn’t move either way. If he keeps his trade veto and agrees to a trade his Bird rights revert to non-Bird for his new team.
I thought there was something with RFA and Bird rights but I cant find any mention of it on HR or NBA sites. As I understand it having 4 years service his Bird rights move in any trade. Thats for sure true on any non QO contract he takes, but Im pretty sure it also applies to him on the QO.
If you can find where it specifies that its non bird on a QO let me know since the HR glossary and NBA.com say nothing about it in either RFA or QO sections.
It’s in the CBA and also right on this site, in the Glossary under No-Trade Clause. “a player who re-signs with his previous team on a one-year contract, or a two-year deal with an option year, is given no-trade protection for the rest of that league year…” “a player who meets these criteria and still decides to consent to a trade will lose his Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season and will instead be deemed to have Non-Bird rights.” also “applies to players who accept standard (ie. non two-way) one-year qualifying offers as restricted free agents.”
The same applies to a player who has an offer sheet matched.
They should put the one part in the section on QO. I didnt apply it to the non QO contracts since most of those would not be 1+1 deals. I find the 1+1 to be one of the least likely outcomes.
Offer sheets would never apply since offers have to be 3 seasons minimum.
It applies to matched offer sheets, they’re specifically listed in the CBA.
Well by the end of the 3rd season you have bird rights with the team that got the offered contract. I guess it could apply in a decline and extend scenario before the full contract runs out.
I don’t know what that means. I do know if an offer is matched, the player has trade veto rights for one calendar year.
@xdrta No, he would still lose his Bird rights in that scenario. When a player agrees to waive his veto rights, it essentially means he’s giving “pre-consent” to a trade, so if he IS traded that season, it functions the same as if he had given his consent at the time of the deal.
Ahh, thanks, Luke. I couldn’t quite figure that out.
Tatum wasn’t good enough for Kerr,obviously he doesn’t need JK.They just want to keep him as a trade chip in the future with a trash contract.Everybody knows Kerr’s career will end with Curry,because his understanding about basketball ends up inside of 3 point line.If I was JK,I would reject anything they offering,just sign&trade and just get away from that team asap
Tatum was tired from playing all those extra games to the championship. It wasn’t because Tatum wasn’t good enough it was because Tatum was tired. Who should have sat on the bench instead of starting Tatum?
You know very well it was Celtics vs GSW time and it was Kerr’s sweet revenge with Tatum.Same with JK,boy talked and was trying to prove himself on court Kerr wasn’t impressed too much,now they giving him a life lesson
??? What revenge are you talking about? Why would Kerr have a problem with Tatum?
Not Tatum,Celtics.Celtics=Tatum
So why is there revenge on celtics?
Idont + i – n = idiot
Claude-a+o-e d+raymond=Deluded Draymond fan
Why would Kerr want revenge? They won the finals…
Its an olympic team with a bunch of players that are or were better than Tatum and have seniority over him. He also was shooting terribly in the playoffs and with team USA to the point he probably deserved to sit. You also have positional considerations where he isnt a PG/C.
Don’t let facts get in the way. Tatum and Kerr have both talked about this.
Also, how ignorant do you have to be to think Kerr wants revenge over someone he just beat. That’s not how revenge works… maybe if Tatum was the coach and Kerr was the player this absurd theory would maybe make sense…
Kerr is maybe the worst player/coach of all-time with the most rings that he got by hitching his wagon to an all-time great.
Warriors are screwed, they have no leverage. Why give them anything decent for a player they don’t want on the roster and they don’t want to pay?
Other teams are just going to wait them out.
He’s been here four years. He can play one or two more if necessary.
Disgruntled player, coach doesn’t seem to want to play him, not a good situation for the Warriors.
I mentioned a disgruntled player four weeks ago and got hammered for it.
But yes, I agree with you.., disgruntled player, and I am of the opinion he will not play for the Warriors again. Too much damage done.
But in a basketball business since, the Warriors can sign him and he can play one or two more years on paper.
No one will be happy, but the guy is not going to walk for free. They’ll get something done. We just don’t know what yet. Might even be Devin Carter And one late first round pick from another team.
I know they would rather save the drama, but Kuminga is valuable this season. The floor on a trade is being in the ballpark of as good after, or with additional assets that help go get another player that makes you better.
If teams wait Kuminga will either take the QO, or take one of GSW proposals, and then you still need to give them something they want to get him.
Just because his fit with the rest of the starters is bad doesnt mean the GSW dont value him on the roster over just moving him to move him.
Warriors have all the leverage. Kuminga is trying to make leverage for himself and has failed every step of the way. He’s not a winning player and everyone knows it. Too selfish.
The saga continues. I hope he does go to another team. Maybe a three way deal can be found.
I know it likely wont happen, but Giddey, Quickley, Kuminga and Thomas should all be traded for each other in a 4 way deal, just for symmetry. Also all those players likely WOULD be better off on one of those other teams.
Dubs fans don’t want to face the reality. Lacob isn’t spending money because he doesn’t believe this group can win a Championship.
GSW is the richest team in the NBA. Yet, even after signing Kuminga and Horford, thereby exceeding the 1st apron, there will still be at least 8 teams outspending them. Yes, even though Steph is 38 years old.
The Warriors’ ownership and FO has to care about what comes after this season Listen to Lacob and Dunleavey whenever they talk: they have a FOUR YEAR planning horizon. They will not mortgage the future.
They won’t part with Kuminga or Podz for assets that don’t help the team in future years.
I dont think its Lacob running this. I think its MDJ who just realizes that he needs all the options that he has to get enough around Steph. You cant just pay him and go into the 2nd while also getting Horford. The whole reason they are playing hard ball with him it seems is that they can get 3-4 other rotation players if they keep his salary reasonable, since they have the MLE in some form and the TPE from Anderson.
Steph could make it much easier to win another ring by taking the 1B+ he has already made from GSW/UA and extend for 20M instead of 70M and 40% of the cap. Like he has the power to give them cap room after this season, or he can make what he does and the team probably never plays another finals.
Look,you know Curry accepted already he is done with rings.It’s not about Curry anymore.They trying to figure it out what path they should take after Curry,because Curry,Klay and DG model is gone forever
Curry just talked about playing several more years. If he wants to win getting his own contract off the books at its current value +8% per would instantly open up near max cap room to bring in help for him.
What does he want more, more money, or more rings? He probably cant have both.
You see who is running show now,OKC,Pacers,Timbers,Rockets.Forget BIG3 model,now its more than 3.Now it’s a wolf pack and GSW basically rejecting one of their wolves.JK is looking to be a wolf,not a sheep under the shepherd
35% is max cap not 40 but the point still strands – He def could take a discount and it play up extra well as it would be PURE Cap not just apron space in summer 2027 for GSW
Ofc that summer it looks like LAL LAC and Mia will also be super flush as well – Battle Royale
Curry is currently at 39% of the cap. This happens because a player always gets the 8% raises on the max even if its over what your FA max would be. When the cap didnt rise much during covid but Currys salaries did he was able to extend for max raises taking him over the 35%. If the cap goes up 10% then it works the opposite. Steph has been the highest paid player in the NBA for I think 4 seasons now because of this.
Chapman, Yes, Dunleavey is in charge of the mechanics, but the decisions on spending levels are 100% with ownership/BoD. As you know better than anybody, decisions around spending at these apron thresholds have cost implications of, literally, hundreds of millions of dollars.
Lacob has said he is willing to go deep into the luxury tax if he believes it makes a Championship contender. But he’s not going to bear $300M more in taxes to get 1 round deeper in the playoffs.
It’s this simple: when GSW added Butler’s huge contract in February, it was both a commitment to be a playoff team for 2 years and a recognition that it couldn’t be a Championship contender.
Steph (38 yrs) and Butler (36 yrs) are the 1st and 4th highest paid players in the NBA, almost $120M combined. Add Draymond (36 yrs) and Moody, and you’re close to $160M.
That leaves less than $30M to pay for another 9-10 guys (assuming you can get Horford using an exception). Today, Vegas says that gets 45 wins.
But this isnt baseball. You can only go deep into the tax one way, which is signing your own FA to big raises.
I think if MDJ thought the best way to win was to go way into the 2nd apron he could and would. I think the supporting cast matters a lot in the modern NBA along with the depth to hit the playoffs fresh. It also doesnt hurt to do the Pacers style hockey rotations and just play deeper with everyone going max effort in shorter stints. The only way to fill out the roster right is for Kuminga to make no more than 23M.
I think Butler is actually less of a lock to not be traded. One of the beauties of Butler is he probably still has value on his contract, and is 1 for 1 matching for a Giannis type max player. He is the #2 right up until you can get a better one thats hopefully younger.
It would be like a 3 team where PG, VJ, and 2 1sts go to MIL from PHI. Butler goes to PHI.
Giannis goes to GSW for 4 more 1sts.
MIL takes on PG money for a top 3 pick and 6 unprotected 1sts. PHI (after Embiid magically is back to normal) gets to swap broken PG for Butler with only 1 more year, and Lacob gets his white whale putting Giannis next to Steph.
> I think if MDJ thought the best way to win was to go way
> into the 2nd apron he could and would.
Chapman, with respect, that’s not the way it works. As a GM, MDJ does not have the discretion to make decisions that generate 100’s of millions of dollars of added cost (via luxury taxes). That would increase the Warriors annual operating expenses by 50%, and the value of the shareholders’ equity (most of which is Lacob’s).
Lacob is the CEO and majority owner, but he also has to worry about corporate governance at the level of the Board of Directors, who have a fiduciary duty to several venture capital firms and private equity groups. Lacob can’t tell the board “I’m waiting for my GM to decide if we’re going to be making $300M in profit next year or losing $100M.”
Lacob may trust Dunleavey’s judgement, but Lacob dictates all the financial constraints (currently, that’s stay under the 1st apron until further notice). Dunleavey might have authority to independently make decisions with millions of dollars of financial impact, and certainly not 100’s of millions.
The only way to go way into the 2nd apron though is to pay Kuminga like the full 45M max. Even then you wouldnt owe that much in tax. Thats my point they have no real incentive to go way into the tax since the only way its even possible with the current salaries is by wildly overpaying Kuminga. They are 36M below the second apron or something so its mostly irrelevant.
Lacob doesnt have venture firms in the minority owners I dont think. Also this isnt like a corporation where the nominated governor by the NBA can almost do whatever they want that the league allows. There are long term benefits to the losses if it leads to another title. They have always been willing to spend anything to keep a true contender together when contracts come up.
They dont have a mandate to stay under the 1st. The whole purpose of this finagling to keep Kuminga under 23M is that they can then use the TPMLE that is the reason Horford is singable, and use the TPE from Anderson to sign 3-4 more vets including Melton and the other Curry. It just would make no sense to overpay Kuminga just to make him happy while blowing past the 2nd and getting fewer if any of the vets the team needs.
> Lacob doesnt have venture firms in the minority
> owners I dont think.
Chapman, Lakob reports to a Board of Directors.
GSW has 1,600 employees, $1B in revenues. Player payroll is the biggest operating expense.
GSW HAS multiple large investors with voting rights:
– Peter Guber (Mandalay Bay) owns 15%-20%
– a private equity firm, Arctos, that has invested almost $1 billion
– a syndicate of individual investors, mostly VC’s, with pro rata stakes going back to 2012, who delegate their voting rights to Lacob.
@aristotle
I don’t really think that’s what’s happening here. I think GSW are waiting for Giannis, who’s Bucks don’t have Curry, and replaced their own dollar store Curry who went back to Portland with…like 5 bigs? Myles Turner for some reason? Bucks don’t have a clue what they’re doing. Best move for them is to run GSW’s pockets and take Kuminga, Podz, Moody, Jimmy, Dray and whoever else for Giannis (literally anyone not named Steph is on the table).
In my opinion MDJ’s ultimate goal is to pair Giannis and Steph, not build for 4 years from now.
HILARIOUS how braindead the Warriors brass is. If they think they are getting Murray for someone who isn’t even interested in playing for them, they are absolutely smoking something. The package SAC is offering is MORE THAN fair for a restricted FA like Kuminga, but the idiot warriors think they are going to be able to pull the wool over someone’s eyes
Saric is negative money for the full amount. Carter is so far a busted 1st, that isnt ready for a rotation role, with minimal value. They were adding either 1 heavily protected 1st, or 2 2nds.
How is that offer better than Kuminga on the QO? At least that way you can use the full MLE or the TPMLE, BAE, and TPE from Anderson. Or you sign him for some compromise deal without a NTC and ship him out in Dec-Deadline.
> Or you sign him for some compromise deal without a NTC and
> ship him out in Dec-Deadline.
Chapman, You understand these rules better than I, but if Kuminga signs the QO, then he effectively has a no-trade clause… as in, he can veto offers to any team he doens’t like, right?
Kuminga’s top priority for the past 5 weeks has been to join a team that values him. Losing $15M-$20M in 2025-26 (by signing the QO) is justified by the superior return on the years that follow.
IMO, there continue to be only 2 likely outcomes:
1. Kuminga signs the QO, and GSW gets almost nothing in return.
2. GSW pays Kuminga enough to take him off the market.
Yeah he could veto it, but things would probably line up where the team most willing to trade for Kuminga is also the team he wants to join. It would be likely both sides interests would align. Although it would be a worse outcome in the recouping value for Kuminga side it would let them snap up any remaining FA of value with better than min offers. You could also still trade Kuminga next offseason if he stays the full year as a S&T for something.
If he gets hurt does he still get paid? Especially if he looks worse than he has in a worse team environment. It also probably is just a loss. Like its unlikely he increases his value by that much? It seems likely he still gets offers around the current ones unless he has a huge breakout.
Ill agree the most likely outcome at this point is that the offers from other teams are what they are and the team isnt interested in them. I dont know if CHI might do different things depending on what happens with Giddy. I would say CHI is maybe the most likely trade partner of any that have really been mentioned.
The Warriors offer seems a little to low ball even with them having a captive market. I feel like the 1+1 doesnt work great for anyone since his rights get messed up and his trade value is limited for a team that wants him. I wonder if his side came with some wild stuff and they have just been trying to make him uncomfortable so he will say yes to the like 3/60M they actually want to do and feel like he is getting a win at that point.
Am I crazy to think 4/80M with no options would be awesome for everyone? Like he got paid real life changing money, so he can chill on his role the first 2 years. Work on improving his skills, and his fit. Then the last 2 years he goes nuts and is the main guy so he can get his max deal if he can earn it.
???? Why would you take dead money in Sarc ic and Carter to add to your payroll to make Kuminga happy? Better to just release Kuminga then take dead money and roster space. If somebody thinks that is a fair package for Kuminga they have no NBA knowledge at all.
Kuminga has the upper hand, GSW hasn’t got any leverage, so they act like the big guys they are not… SMH!
Kuminga hasn’t put together the consistent playing and stats. That Chet and Williams have. Plus their playing and team game helped the Thunder win a title. Kuminga has not been a big part of Warriors success. As a matter of fact Kerr sat him when Jimmy came over. And Warriors went on their big run. So you can’t blame Warriors for not wanting to pay Kuminga.
The other truth is. They need value for Kuminga in a trade. If they are going to upgrade this roster. And considering Curry, Dra, and Jimmy. They have to do this trade this year. This is the real dilemma and conversation you all should be having …..
Suggs and Quickley have set the market for getting paid on upside and potential. Based on these two players stats and impact. Kuminga deserves to be in this conversation. As does Giddey. I have always liked Kuminga and Giddey. Both have talent and “Positional Size”. My favorite accolade for a solid talent. Both have upside still just by going to different offenses. Giddey put up a triple double in second half of season. I have to admit he has put up the numbers with PT. Kuminga doesn’t get PT. And has already been destroyed by his OWN coach. Like I been saying since the playoffs. Kuminga has saved Warriors with his play in playoffs. Cause if he didn’t play. The market would be even worse for him. So be thankful lols.
Imo Giddey will be as good as Suggs and better than Quickley. Kuminga has the potential to be better than all three of these players. Thing is, he hasn’t done enough to deserve the money up till now. If the Warriors offer is true. I would take the 20 mill for two yrs with a PO. Then make sure I show for the next contract.