In a story for ESPN.com, Anthony Slater has provided more details regarding the stalemate between the Warriors and restricted free agent forward Jonathan Kuminga.
According to Slater, the two sides did not discuss the financial terms of a new contract leading up to free agency, which led to Kuminga’s agent, Aaron Turner, seeking sign-and-trades from rival teams. The Suns and Kings have shown the most external interest in Kuminga to this point, sources tell Slater, confirming reporting from his colleague Shams Charania.
John Gambadoro of Arizona Sports 98.7 continues to hear the Suns are high on Kuminga and says they remain interested in trying to find ways to acquire him, despite having limited assets at their disposal (Twitter link). However, Golden State’s front office hasn’t been impressed with the offers from Phoenix or Sacramento, Slater writes.
In a potential Kuminga sign-and-trade, the Warriors don’t want to take on unfavorable contracts, “would like” to add a talented young player, and are determined to receive a first-rounder, per Slater’s sources.
As Slater details, general manager Mike Dunleavy Jr. was motivated to get a deal done this week and recently offered Kuminga what the the club believes is the “highest starting salary” he currently has on the table. But the 22-year-old wasn’t moved by the offer, as he told Charania, and seems much more interested in landing with another team.
Signing his $7.98MM qualifying offer, which is essentially just a one-year contract with an implied no-trade clause, is an option Kuminga is considering, sources tell Slater. Choosing that path would cost Kuminga money in the short term but would give him more control of his situation and an opportunity to hit unrestricted free agency in 2026, Slater notes.
Part of the reason that Kuminga is trying to find a new home is that he has a “painful memory” of being out of the Warriors’ rotation in their first-round playoff series vs. Houston, according to Slater. The former lottery pick desires a featured offensive role and wants to be a consistent starter, Slater adds.
A source tells Ashish Mathur of DallasHoopsJournal.com that Kuminga has “made it known behind the scenes” that he doesn’t want to continue his career in Golden State, partly because he doesn’t think he can become an All-Star with the Warriors. Kuminga publicly discussed his All-Star ambitions last month in an interview with Slater.
When exactly is the date on which Kuminga would become a member of whatever team is the highest bidder?
Almost always, the former team rescinds RFA status when they are outbid. Warriors haven’t done that yet. I don’t actually know what happens in limbo situations like this.
Try reading maybe? He’s under contract
> Almost always, the former team rescinds RFA status
> when they are outbid.
Can you give examples? I believe the exact apposite is true.
If a team makes an RFA offer the GSW then get I think its 48 hrs, although it might have changed, to match that exact offer or let him go for nothing. No trades after an offer sheet is signed only take it or leave it for the former team. No modifications to the contract signed in the offer sheet.
No team can give him a 30M offer without making other moves first, and the better the contract terms the more likely GSW is to match. No team wants to start dealing or cutting players to create the cap space for an offer that will just be matched. This is why RFA players are screwed.
The only team that can outbid the Warriors are the Nets at those points. Every other team does not have cap room. That means they need the warriors to sign and trade Kuminga to them.
If the Warriors choose not to cooperate with a sign and trade, the only thing Kuminga can go is 1) take the Warriors offer or 2) sign the RFA for one year then become a free agent in 2026.
The Nets cant even make an offer in the range he wants, or that would be big enough to make GSW think about matching, because they already used a bunch of cap space on other deals.
UTH and DET could create room without much work. So all of the cap space teams capable of making an offer would have to move or renounce pieces to create enough room.
It is interesting though that they are not. Either the Kuminga camp is asking for too much, or they don’t think Kuminga is worth it, or they are they are delusional enough to try to keep cap space for a whale like Jokic or Giannis. Neither is going to Utah, Detroit or the Nets.
The Nets need a big contract. They are like $13 under minimum salary, and they already have 16 players. So, they HAVE to make a big move, even if it is taking on an expiring contract. They would have to get rid of two players and sign someone for at least $18M to be at minimum salary.
Not exactly. Its that they are all teams that would have to cut current players they like in order to make the offer that just gets matched. These teams would be out the players they trade or cut for financial reasons, and would get nothing for it.
None of these teams will start making those moves until they are sure that the deal will get done if they do.
Also the space is useful in season to facilitate trades when teams are more limited, and get assets for doing it.
Reflect, wouldn’t the “highest bidder wins,” only occur in unrestricted free agency, so the answer to your question is, next summer?
I think the Warriors have made it clear that there’s no way they’re letting this guy walk for nothing. If they don’t get it done before the season they’ll absolutely get a deal done at the trading deadline.
In fact, how many young, potentially very good, restricted free agents walk for nothing?
Right that’s the weird part I guess because he’s also not signed yet
They just dont want him on the QO since it is under 8M for matching, and he basically has a no trade if he signs it so finding a deal with value is harder.
Kuminga wants $30-35M
GSW’s max is $25M
No other team wants to give Kuminga $25-35M
???
No one has but an offer officially in front of him. Just talk
If I read it right, I think the article says the Warriors put on the table a match of his supposed current top dollar salary.
Of course he rejected it. He doesn’t want to play for the Warriors.
So is that number 25 million? He probably wants 30 million.
Im guessing that SAC offered something in the 15-22M range since they would have to deal other players elsewhere for nothing to get it up past that.
Light years ahead of everybody else.
I mean, it’s light years ahead of “trust the process”, that’s for sure.
It’s funny how Lacob can both win a title and be called a failure. Great job.
You should read what DeMarcus Cousins recently stated…
I don’t know his words exactly but he’s a guy who’s played for five teams or so and he’s been in the league a decade.
Cousins says the Warriors are the best run franchise in the league. They take care of their players better than any team and they treat the players’s families better than any team.
So yes, you’re right. Light years. Joe Lacob said it and the team backs it up.
Gary, you’re right that Cousins says that the Warriors/Lakob have a reputation for treating established players as well as any team. But Cousins also states publicly that Kerr does a terrible job of developing young players, and is screwing over Kuminga.
link to talkbasket.net
This is the consensus amongst all the ex-NBA players on podcasts, whether right or wrong: Kerr mismanages young players and young players should avoid the Warriors.
Kerr is in charge of the players on the floor and substitutions.
Again, for the umpteen time, Kerr is not in charge of developing players.
He’s worried about the next game and the next win and he even has help with that from his assistant coaches Stotts and whoever else.
He’s not staying after practice working on a guy’s individual development.
He’s in his office, figuring out how to beat The next opponent.
If Kerr doesn’t think JK can help him win the game he’s not going to play him.
You all have to get a grip of this or you’ll never have no clue on this whole Jonathan Kuminga situation.
You can see it after his third year when he came in a much better shooter and a much better player overall.
Someone got in his head and he worked on his game.
How much do you blame the coaching staff for his development?
These guys are paid to be serious about doing their job.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I put all the responsibility on the player himself. But that’s not the way this world thinks today. Blame is placed elsewhere so I get it.
ari, players are coach killers. Players get coaches fired. Everyone knows that.
If a guy doesn’t make the team, they blame the head coach. If a player gets cut along the way, they’ll blame the head coach.
The reality is the NBA head coach gets input from probably 15 guys. Then makes his decision.
So all this blame on Kerr should actually be on the Golden State Warriors team, so yes, including Kerr, but no, not exclusively Kerr.
I hope this makes sense.
Gary, my point is to say that there are 2 sides to the story (as in most any organizational conflict), and not acknowledging both of them leads to never-ending argument. With all due respect to you because your posts are always thoughtful, I believe your perspective ignores the other ongoing narrative.
It’s a lonely job to be an NBA head coach because the NBA, more than any other sport, is a player’s league. I’m not here to defend the players, but when NBA players start talking about why they don’t trust a coach, fairly or unfairly, that’s a problem.
Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 incidents over the last 18 months where Kerr has mistreated Kuminga. (And I’m not talking about the playoff benching.) All have been very public, and they continue to feed an opposing narrative.
Pretty sure the season before last when Kuminga ran to the press to complain about playing time at the beginning of his 3rd season and blasting his coach pre dated that. Also him doing that one move is probably why more teams arent as interested in taking a chance on his development.
Kerr developed Podz/Poole/Post/TJD/Moody/Pascall/DLee/JTA he even rehabbed GRIII and Burks value. They also havent had any guys besides Rollins that have done anything anywhere else, so on the misses Kerr isnt to blame for Baldwin etc. He is widely respected league wide by front offices/coaches/players, so I think this reflects more on Kuminga than GSW. Sure they didnt have as much development min as you would want for a raw player like that.
The main flaw with blaming Kerr for development is that he has been put in a difficult situation with raw players and minimal development min available. Would it have been better if Myers/MDJ had drafted Wagner/Murphy III over Kuminga/Moody? Sure, but I remember that draft, where it was a 5 player draft and then a big tier break, but OKC going Giddy and TOR going Barnes meant a player much higher on most boards was available where he shouldnt be. Kerr wasnt the one drafting these players, and probably would have rather had the picks traded pre draft for vets that fit right with this team.
Chapman, if you really believe Kerr is justified in repeated negative comments in the media after Kuminga pissed him 1.5 years ago, that’s a strong condemnation of Kerr.
Kerr is a head coach, leader, manager — and in a player’s league. Kuminga was 20 years old.
It’s EXACTLY this kind of behavior by Kerr that leads to the poor reputation with young players. Yes, it’s a thing.
I think he is exasperated and lashing out at a player thats biggest flaw is being not coachable. I dont know if its the best way to “handle” Kuminga, but I get it.
He has been told what they want, he has ignored them to focus on what he wants, and then he has pouted when they couldnt gift him bad min while trying to stay in the hunt with the greatest player in franchise history. Like KD being bummed its the Steph show is one thing, some year 3 punk kid complaining that its still about the 1st ballot HoF instead of him is just immature.
Moody has gotten just buried by the depth chart at times, but it has never seemed acrimonious. Every young player seems to have done fine where the ones that didnt play are mostly out the league. Like it doesnt seem like any other GSW young player has had any problems with Kerr since like McCaw.
I do wonder if there is a culture barrier with Kuminga, but he has lived state side since he was like 13-14 so it isnt like he moved to the states when he was drafted. He may also just be a bit un grounded since he had to leave his parents in the Congo when he came to the states, so he was a future athletic star people fawned over with little parental guidance between 13-19. I remember he saw them in person for the first time in like 5 years right after the draft.
The point is the coaches have told him how to earn playing time. He hasnt done what they have asked, and then he has tantrumed when he hasnt gotten what he wanted.
None of the things Kerr did were in “exasperation”. If they were, that’s even worse.
I mean basketball IQ wise Kuminga seems young, dumb, and stubborn. I understand why that would be hard to coach especially when the kid is running to the press to complain about you before he has even played 1 full season in the league for each decade you have been in it.
‘Team of the 2010s’ and still as many titles as any other team in the 2020s. If that’s the extent, I’ll take it, mike.honcho
Thunder have no issues developing their picks ….
Both Jalen and Chet got their rookie extensions two years ahead of time. Where Warriors are taking it to last minute. And all the Warriors crybabies here. All blame Kuminga ……. 😭😭😭😭
In 2022-23 Thunder were 40–42.
In 2023–24 Thunder were 57–25.
Jalen Williams — Born April 14, 2001 — 24yrs old
Drafted — 2022 , 12th pick in the draft.
215 career gms, started 202 gms. Williams won the starting SG his rookie year. Thunder played him and let him develop. To be their starting SG. His career numbers are here. And in his third year in NBA. Thunder signed him to a rookie max extension.
Avg 31.3 mins, 18.1 pts, 4.3 ast, 4.6 rebounds
Shooting — .560% 2pt, .382% 3pt, .803% FT
In three years… this is what developing a top pick looks like. You getting this.
link to basketball-reference.com
Chet Holmgren — Born May 1, 2002 — 23yrs old
Drafted — 2022, 2nd pick in the draft.
Chet did not play his rookie year. So has only played two yrs in NBA. He started all his gms his second yr. Then got hurt his third year again. Yet he has developed with the help of IHart next to him. At his position of PF. Thunder signed IHart to help in Chet development. Something that worked great. Winning the championship last year.His career numbers are here. And in his third year in NBA. Chet also got a rookie max extension. Even though he has played only 114 career games …..
Avg 28.9 mins, 16.1 pts, 7.9 reb, 2.3 ast, 2.3 blk
Shooting — .602% 2pt, ,372% 3pt, .780% FT
link to basketball-reference.com
Jonathan Kuminga — Born Oct 6 , 2002 — 22yrs old
Drafted — 2021 , 7th pick in the draft.
Kuminga was drafted a year ahead of Thunder stars. They are all about same age. Kuminga has been in and out of lineup. His first two yrs only played 20 mins a game or less. His third year he started 46 out of 74 gms. Last year he started 10 out of 47 gms. And the only reason we are talking about him today. Is cause he showed out in Playoffs. And reminded people of the potential. Do we see the difference in development of players here. One team believes in their picks. The Warriors obviously don’t ……. So why is he still here.
Even with inconsistent mins. With Kerr humiliating Kuminga. And with Kerr jerking him in and out of lineup. The real question here. Why is he still on this team ?????? WHY ??
Look at his career numbers. Even with Warriors trying to destroy his value …
Avg 22 mins, 12.5 pts, 4.2 reb, 2.0 ast, 1 stl
Shooting — .568% 2pt, .332% 3pt, .70% FT
Facts show that if Kuminga is given a chance. He would put up same stats as Thunder stars. Plus he is considered a big upside D player. Now I’m not saying he is worth max money. Imo he is worth 25 mill to right team. This isn’t about $$$$. Warriors blew that long ago. Now it’s become get all you can. Clearly the Warriors have blown it with Kuminga. It happens. Plenty teams miss on players. Or don’t develop them right. Prolonged mistakes isn’t good for anyone. Warriors should just move on. Please ohhh please. So ALL the crybabies here can stop crying. We can all watch Kuminga tear it up on another team. The next few yrs. Please turn the faucets OFF already …..
link to basketball-reference.com
Al, this is getting tired.
You expect every single top 10 draft pick to be a great player. You’ve never seen a guy who’s a top 10 pick not turn out to be a productive player.
It happens Al.
It happens to probably every team.., well except for the thunder lol. Heck their second round picks and undrafted guys are stars !! lol
I’ve pointed out to you that Bob Myers was crappy in his young player analysis prior to the draft.
I’m not crying. I’m stating facts.
Another hot mess of a take. Kerr did develop young players, over a decade ago, when he turned draymond green into the best defender in the NBA, or when he developed Curry into the best shooter the NBA has ever seen, by a long shot. Or maybe how he did the same with Klay Thompson, or maybe when he taught Durant to play defense, or developed Iguodala into one the best 6th men the league has ever seen.
Kerr already developed a young team into the second best team ever assembled. He’s just continuing that, and not going backwards for the sake of an inconsistent player who at times seems like he’s not trying, at times seems like he’s out trying to showcase his skills instead of help the team win, and who at times makes everyone want to pull their hair out. This describes both Jordan Poole and Kuminga to a T. Let’s stop pretending like Kerr didn’t already do all these things. He’s going to step down when Curry and Draymond retire. He’s not here to develop the next team, he’s here to maximize the team he’s built over the last decade.
and, let’s face it, your thunder won because they didn’t have to play a legitimate powerhouse of a team. No LBJ led team, no dynasty warriors. Celtics hurt. Nobody watched the finals this year for a reason. Bad teams.
TWolves — Donte, future #1 pick
Heat – Jaquez, Jovic, future pick
Suns — Maluach
Knicks — Mitch, McBride,
Nets — C Thomas, future #1 pick
Mavs — Christie, future #1 pick
I mean I can go on and on. I guess I know more than Warriors ……. call me🤙
The TWolves is the best one. I don’t like the others
What does this list even mean Al? Aside from that, you tell me which guy on that entire list you would say,
“No thanks, I’d rather have Jonathan Kuminga?” Seriously Al and if you say even one name that you’d rather have JK instead of that guy, you’re lying.
Jonathan Kuminga has shown me nothing other than he’s an athlete. He definitely hasn’t shown me he’s a basketball player.
Most of the guys on your list are walking buckets or Young with real potential. Look at Vazquez, that guy was a player as soon as he walked into the heat camp. He’s a win now guy you can plug in and play him minutes and he won’t hurt you. He’ll make winning plays and at 6-6 he can even guard power forwards. Look at Max Christie that guy knows how to play basketball. He can score and defend. Does it all. Nice young player who actually produces right now. Dante is a great player who produces right now has produced since his second year or so. Guy can shoot and is a great defender. That young center from Duke? Great draft pick. Every team would love the opportunity to have him. Same with Mitch and McBride. I’ll trade you straight up right now for those two. I’d do it yesterday.
Seriously Al, what does this list even mean?
you really just have no idea what you are talking about, huh Gary?
Nice drive-by comment with no substance.
What is it that I’ve written that you don’t like?
Or you have no idea, you’re just grabbing your ankles and shooting crap against the wall because that’s your MO?
gary the problem is many people here think the warriors have been offered good players for Kuminmga but not 1 team even offered a 1st round pick for Kuminga. Carter and Saric would be 2 bad contracts for Kuminga. Rather see Kuminga walk than have 2 bad contracts. MJD needs to say fine You get the QO and leave next year. Trade him at trade dealine where you can get draft picks for him. Kuminga is reminding me of Oubre a talented player but inconsistent from game to game and only thinks of offense.
Warriors are not willing to let Kuminga go for nothing. Thats the impasse. They had every chance to nontender Kuminga and sign Beal.
Would it be reasonable to assume Warriors recent offer is much less than what they offered a year ago? If so WHY? What changed? If they think Kuminga is not worth the same offer, what happened? Did they not help him maintain his value? WHY didnt they trade him at the deadline if they never believed in him?
The new CBA makes it important to play a little more hard ball in contract negotiations. Also I think teams are far more scared now of signing a guy to a big bad deal that costs them a lot to get off of.
Yes, true Chap. With the current CBA you can afford maybe two max guys and two high paid guys and then the rest at quite a bit lower salaries.
Is a team going to plug in Jonathan Kuminga today as one of those top four guys who are getting 30+ million a year?
There is no way.
He will receive offers as the sixth highest paid guy on the team and with the new CBA that’s turning out to be not much.
Bad timing for this kid. But it’s the way the league is going.
Well, it’s not necessarily his problem that GS are where they are with their salaries compared to others. It’s not Kuminga’s problem that Curry was making 39% of the cap this year and Shai was making 25% while being a better player. It’s not Kuminga’s problem that Butler is getting his extension. It’s not Kuminga’s problem that Brunson, Sengun and others are on good contracts, which puts pressure on others to get their players under contracts which are just as good, otherwise they can’t compete.
Kuminga has the right to believe that he’s worth a certain sum, if it’s not unrealistic. Him asking for 30-35 last summer was not unrealistic at all. There were players from his class who signed in that region, like Suggs, Jalen Green, Sengun, Johnson, Trey Murphy, and those contracts were fair.
Kuminga had a very good 2nd half of the 23-24 season as a 21 year-old. Many teams would have given him 30-35mil and would be happy to have a player of his potential, and it would not be a bad contract. They would have also given him more time and opportunity to prove that he’s worth even more than that.
But GS wanted to squeeze.
Also, why has this “can’t have bad contracts” suddenly started to pop up in the latest weeks in the discourse? As if Kuminga on 25-30 is a bad deal. 3-4 years from now, 30 million is what somewhat above-average role players will be making. Good ones like Hartenstein are making that kind of money now. Best ones like OG are already making more.
Kuminga has an upside to be more than a somewhat above-average role player.
Peter it’s because 30 million in today’s cap world is reserved for your fourth or fifth best player.
JK is not there yet and this trade market reflects that. The Warrior‘s offer reflects that.
I do agree that this is bad timing for JK. If it were 2017, he’d get paid more than he’s worth as there were 10-20 guys who received amazing contracts that were above their market value at the time.
His trade market doesn’t reflect much. He’s a RFA most teams can’t sign because of the lack of space, hard-capping, salary matching, base year compensation and other rules and technicalities that make it difficult.
Sign&trade limitations were designed to prevent teams from easily getting max guys by making questionable moves. “I want to trade for a max guy making 40m, but I can’t find a matching salary on my roster, and I want to keep my own max guys. So I sign a random guy I had playing for me, like Melton, for 40m. And now I trade him for Markannen and my picks”. The rules were put in place to prevent those moves. But they also happen to affect RFAs. Even though RFAs are a different group of players.
It has always been a bad time for RFAs, it’s nothing new. Contracts some guys received in 2017-2020 have little to do with anything.
I don’t know what GS were thinking about their salary situation, but from the outside, it looked like last summer JK was perfectly worth 30-35m. If GS didn’t believe that, which they had the right to, they probably should have figured out a move. OKC traded Giddey for Caruso, and it has worked out wonderfully for them.
In 23-24 and 24-25, multiple teams approached GS and wanted Kuminga in trades. GS didn’t want to play ball, or wanted to have everything on their terms.
If Kuminga took the warriors offer last year that was a very good offer at 5/125 they would not be in this mess but he wanted the max extension. The warriors eneded up using that money on Butler.
This is an excellent point. The circumstances have changed and Kuminga has to compromise as well as the Warriors financially. Problem is he’s tired of being treated like a rookie and he has every right to want to play for another team. Warriors also have the right to protct their asset. Thats why we have impasse.
@Peter
The offers dont reflect the player he thinks he is. If he was who he thinks SAC would put Murray on the table, or at least something better than Carter and some flotsam. Like if he was the player he thinks BRK would have made an offer since he was better than a pick in the 20s for taking on Mann.
The dumb thing is Steph making 4% over the max max is still underpaid. Like he should have something in the neighborhood of 3-4B in career earnings if your basing it on either how much value he has added to the team price, and how far above the avg NBA player he has been during his career. Its the same for LBJ he just cant be paid fairly based on production.
I mean I think GSW would blow the second apron out of the water in the right situation. Like if they make the big trade and have what they view as a complete roster thats contending for titles they will just pay to bring it back.
The problem is they are in the middle in the west and need additions which you cant make unless you play hard ball with JK.
GS has the right to have their evaluation of Kuminga. They have the right to play or not play him, to pay or not pay him.
Just as Kuminga has a right to value himself.
As an outsider, last summer it seemed reasonable that Kuminga was worth 30-35m. GS could have gotten a good return in a trade had they signed him to that contract. They could have also gotten a good return had they traded him somewhere in January-February 2024, in the middle of the season. They could have gotten a decent but smaller return had they traded him before he signed his contract.
For whatever reason, they decided not to and were hoping for something better. For what? That they play hardball and he agrees to a super-team-friendly deal that makes him even more valuable? That he explodes, and his value increases even more in a trade? One magical trade that puts them in the best position in the West?
It did seem at some point that they thought Kuminga was going to be their golden goose, bringing them great fortune.
I dont think he has shown 30M+ value. He has amazing highlights, but if you watch the full tape there is a lot still very wrong with his game, and from everything we have seen on his socials he isnt working on the right parts of his game. He doesnt even seem to realize that the players hes emulating like Kobe wouldnt play that way in this modern NBA and succeed the same way.
I would strongly disagree that he would have positive value on 5/150M right now. Outside of being matching for a bigger contract I dont know what team would trade the warriors 30M in non dump salary and give any assets for Kuminga. He just hasnt established himself close to that level yet.
It doesnt help Kumingas value either that he is out making all this noise. Like other teams and coaches pay attention when he goes and whines to the media about playing time, and acting like he can demand a trade on a rookie deal like hes some vet star. He started acting unprofessional well before the season ended.
His value is lower now, yes. But last summer, when it was his contract extension time, it seemed reasonable.
And I was not watching highlights. He played about 30 mins a game in the 2nd half of 23-24 season, started most games, and looked quite good. As a 21 y.o. Shot quite well.
I didn’t think he’d be a negative value for 30m at that point in his career.
But his value is lower now, that is true.
I mean I thought something like 5/120M was fair last summer. I think things have changed since across the league though. Some of these guys are trying to get the deals other players got. Like the Quickly contract is screwing everything up because the players want his deal, but Quickly is wildly overpaid.
Like TOR is almost single handedly ruining the markets for players by overpaying sooooo many guys. All these FA are wanting TOR money. TOR is a lottery team with a top 10 payroll for a reason. Like BI getting 40M is insane when NOP could barely find a trade partner for him. Theres no way BI is worth even 3oM to almost any other team.
What did they offer a year ago? Just because it’s reported in the media after being leaked to save face doesn’t make it gospel. Dennis the menace and his agent said exactly the same thing with the apparent Laker offer all those years ago. Owners and front office guys lie, alot. Fools the fans into thinking, oh we all in. Sources say, anonymous execs etc etc. Nobody can prove that kuminga was offered such a contract. Meanwhile guys in the inner circle laugh at such reports. The social media age with paid for hire goon talking heads in the so called mainstream media are a joke. Why would you believe those types? A tip, the powers that be would love for you to think they are all in when in reality it’s profit that matters. 85% of the league aren’t all in.
The Lakers offered DS 70-80M over 4 years and he said no. We all know that. No lying there.
Says who? ESPN? Not according to him or his agent. Nobody knows that was offered, unless you’re going off anonymous execs, anonymous sources or leaked information in order to save face. Not everything you read in the paper is true. Give me some actual proof and I’ll believe you. It’s much easier to believe Dennis who would of signed that without thinking in a heartbeat.
It was widely widely reported that they were interested in him at around a certain number. This is like what Kumingas people are doing. Sure when he wasnt interested to a contract around those terms they didnt make a formal offer, but the team made some sort of opening offer that got shot down by delusions of granduer where the team knew the parties werent close so they moved on.
Sure there wasnt a formal contract offered, but if the player was interested in anything in the ballpark of the proposal further negotiations would have happened and a middle ground probably would have been reached.
The people with the most incentive to lie about this and obfuscate the truth are the player and his agent. They are the ones that look bad if they turned down a deal like 4/80M to take 1/15M. The player looks dumb and the agent looks incompetent to all other prospective clients.
Michol, they didn’t trade him at the trade deadline because it’s the same as today.
Nobody is offering the warriors squat for a guy who is not very good yet.
And he’s going into his fifth year so this potential thing is going to run its course fairly soon. Nobody’s giving you quality for a guy five years in with “potential.”
Warriors fans know that he finally worked on his game the summer before his fourth year. He did zero the summers after his first two years.
Early in his fourth season, you could see an improved jumpshot and you could see improved “on court awareness.” Plus he picked up his defense. Someone must’ve gotten in his ear and he finally listened.
Nobody’s giving you much for a headstrong kid who knows it all and hasn’t gotten better.
Now, tell me why you don’t understand why the Warriors haven’t traded him yet?
Because the offers have been crap for a guy who’s…, well.., got potential !!
Why did they offer him a big contract a year ago if he was no good? Doesnt make any sense. Utah, Clippers, Heat all wanted Kuminga in trade discussions last yr.
Kuminga wants 30-35M
GSW wants to pay 20-25M
No one wants to pay him 30-35M
???
Kuminga to Chicago to for Vuecuc and Noa their 1st rd pick in the draft
I’d rather have Noa than Kuminga
You attaching 2 more picks to take vuc? Noa I dont love either, but your going to have to give up more than Noa if you wanna also attach Vuc money.
Sign JD Davison GS
Blame the weak owners who ruined the league with tax aprons…
You can’t blame the owners because they were paying guys left and right.
It’s the league that is protecting the small market teams and that’s not wrong.
The big market teams could pay guys all day long and have stud rosters with huge salaries and work around salary cap and just pay the tax.
As I’ve mentioned a couple times the league wants just two max salary stars per team, but on every team.
If the Lakers or Knicks, Celtics or Warriors can only afford two max guys according to the rules, that spreads out the best players to the teams that normally have no way of getting these guys.
The league is protecting cheap owners who solely view their teams in terms of the bottom line, not winning. Not small market teams.
Yes, that’s more accurate. Thank you.
Every team except one is up against the tax apron. Who is being cheap? The bigger issue is the max guys get paid so much now that the regular guys can really only get mid level exceptions.
This is exactly the point. Billionaires create an artificial and restrictive cap and aprons so you can be upset with the employee’s salary when in reality paying a guy an extra $10 million or another player $10 million is a literal drop in the bucket to the owners. Max stars are worth every penny in return on investment terms. The new wave of owners like Ballmer, ishbia, now Mark Walters, who are willing and able to spend whatever are the real reason for this new CBA
@Garett
Do you know how small the penalties are if your over the 1st apron. Like it isnt a badge of courage. Also since BOS/PHX and a bunch of the other teams way over the 2nd cut costs the payout to non tax teams will be way way lower than it has been the last several years.
Signing Kuminga puts them over the second apron. GSW is not cheap they have paid more penalties than any other team. Blame the CBA! Take a one year deal at 20 mil and try FA or take the QO and the Suns can sign him next year!
The Warriors wants in a sign and trade are hilarious. Wake up. Nobody is giving a good young player and a 1st plus no bad contracts lmfao. Warriors just being the warriors I guess (delusional)
nobody is even offering a good young player. Only offers so far is scraps. Nobody wants to take a chance and sign him for what he thinks he is worth.
“Delusional”..but also with 4 rings in 10 years
Kuminga: “I’m so good at basketball”
Warriors: “you’re not that good”
——
Other teams: “he’s not that good”
Warriors: “but he’s so good at basketball”
Warriors: If you want JK, we’d like such and such in return.
Other teams: No.
Warriors: Ok, we’ll just keep him. Thanks.
@ Druuu….Yeah that’s the message I’ve been getting for years.
Warriors painted themselves into a corner on this one.
How? They either trade him for what they want or they keep him and figure it out later?
That’s called “being in the driver’s seat.”
I think it’s Jonathan Kuminga who’s painted himself into a corner.
Kuminga wanted a $30 a year deal and warriors said no. Now a year later he still wants that max extension.
I think they have both bungled this. They are standing in opposite corners of the room with a sea of paint in between.
Agree warrioprs should have traded Kuminga last year when he turned down their extension but Lacob wants Kuminga on teh team and made it clear he loves Kuminga.
Which means Lacib was still willing to pay him…. Kuminga will be paid one way or another. Sick of fans posting 2 yr $25m bs talk.
i did hear that they offered him a $20 first year with a player option year next year that he turned down.
Warriors arent in the drivers seat. They are very uncomfortable with the impasse. They want to get Kuminga resolved so they can sign other free agents and tocus on the training camp. It is a distraction. Everybody has some leverage including Kuminga and thats why we have impasse. Lots of blame to go around including Kerr, CBA, kuminga agent, other team trying to take advantage of Warriors. But at the end of the day Kuminga himslf didnt have the yr he envisioned for himself. I am emphathetic because Kerr removed him as a starter after 2 lousy games to start the yr.
The other problem is the GSW feel they can get Kuminga signed and he is unwilling to do anything. MDJ should just give him a week to take the offers or he gets the QO. End all negotiations and say they will most likely trade him around trade deadline. Its time to move on and accept he is not resigning. Why put the season in jeporady for 1 player.
Dunleavy cant do that. Kuminga can wait for a while still on the QO. If you move on with your offseason before he is under some kind of contract then UTH can just give him 26M after you sign Horford and hard cap yourself. RFA matching doesnt work if it takes you over a hard cap youre already restricted by.
They literally have to wait for Kuminga to do anything but vet mins. Since they have a TPE for Anderson they have probably told these guys like Horford/Melton that they will pay them more if able after this resolves. GSW can sign vet mins without messing up things, but they are probably waiting to see what the roster looks like after the Kuminga thing is resolved, since you dont want to sign Brogdon if your trading for Coby White etc. So they have some things tacitly agreed to just waiting on the Kuminga domino, and then at least 2-3 more spots to fill for the minimum roster of 14.
Never thought about that a team signs him to a 1 year deal at $25 million and they can test him out for a year at $25 million.
It would probably be a longer deal since they would want team control if it works. The thing would be if you sign Horford to the TPMLE you become hard capped. If you then sign some mins and are 25M below the hard cap all a team has to do is offer 26M and your not allowed to match so they just get him. Its why they have all the other business done, but must wait until Kuminga is signed or traded to do any of it.
I do believe they have deals in waiting. Halford, Melton, and Curry seems like locks.
And my guess is they have told Melton and Curry that they will give them a bit more than the vet min if they can after the dust settles. Otherwise those deals could just be done now.
I think a sign and trade has to be minimum 3yrs but I could be mistaken.
Yeah I believe its 1+1+1 where the weird offer on Paul Reed that became guaranteed if the 6ers made the 2nd round of the playoffs, but was otherwise a team option. It was the poison pill where it wouldnt trigger for the offering team, but the 6ers had made the 2nd round like 3 years running.
Ok Michol, I can agree with that. JK does hold some cards here.
he also put enormous pressure on himself. He has no excuses not to prove himself.
RFA market is broke when you have most teams in the luxury tax or up against aprons, but the real hold up is the base salary restriction for matching salaries.
I get it – you don’t want some team doing a S&T or “fake” inflated contract for matching purposes like the Sixers tried to do with KMJ.
But you could just have a checks and balances in there like the league has to approve S&Ts from a competitive standpoint on a case by case standpoint. Like the trade can’t be egregious – can’t just S&T a scrub and attach 4 picks for like a LeBron or KD type of player.
The problem is these young players all want a max contract before they are a all star player. Kuminga, Giddey, and Thomas all think they are a max player but none of them has proved to be an all star player.
Basically you need teams with cap space to simultaneously take on bad contracts to facilitate trades and also have enough room to sign RFA.
The cap is too low and the cap floor is too high. Penalties are way too steep. I understand bird rights and their function and I think they should stay for small market teams, but they should have qualifiers for performance in addition to longevity.
Very rarely do deserving players each RFA, because it’s forgone conclusion they will be extended before it ever gets to the summer. No one wants to pay Cam Thomas or Kuminga, even their own teams. Not a single franchise collected expiring deals to make the cap space necessary to make run at them, presumably because they aren’t that good or a crucial piece of anyone’s future. It’s not like GM’s go into the RFA portion of the offseason and then figure it out as they go. Every single one has multiple years long plans and timelines.
Its hard for older teams to give out contracts like this. most older teams are already maxed out. OKC is what everyone been quoting but what happens next year do they have money for players like Dort or harkenstein on extensions? No they will end up leaving.
Bingo. And if Dort and Hartenstein (and Kuminga and Thomas) had unique irreplaceable talent profiles, they would be extended full stop. It’s not to say they don’t have a role, but the role they do have can now be filled for cheaper. Saving the owner money. Yes, even Joe Lacob thinks about and wants to save money.
Saying that other teams not making moves in preparation to get Kuminga is a reflection of him being unwanted is just untrue. Imagine being a FO person in 2024, planning your next summer, collecting expiring contracts (which you often have to pay for), making room, just to watch Kuminga sign with GS and you have absolutely no control over it. Or give him an offer sheet and watch them match it, just like Phoenix matched Ayton’s offer sheet, while your cap is locked up, and others are signing free agents while you miss out.
RFA is designed for teams to own players. GS own Kuminga. Other teams not making moves is not a reflection of anything.
If Mathurin, Ivey, Christian Braun, Keegan Murray, Dyson Daniels and others don’t sign extensions for whatever reasons, not a single team will be going into next year thinking “Yeah, we will get him next summer!” Because they know they won’t.
If GS sign somebody into an exception and hard-cap themselves, watch how quickly a team out there will make room and will sign Kuminga to a sheet GS can’t match.
So why is no team signing Kuminga to the $30 million a year deal he wants or even close to that? Why is no team offering any good players for Kuminga?
How do you know they aren’t? Maybe 30m is what Sacramento have offered him already. If they made an offer to GS, it’s safe to presume that they have already agreed on contract terms with Kuminga. Just like Jimmy had his extension agreed before getting traded to GS.
It’s not that teams will first have to make an offer that satisfies GS, and only then get the permission to start talking to Kuminga. That’s not how it works.
Why are teams not giving GS good players? Obviously because they want to leverage the situation and squeeze the Warriors. Did teams want KD? Absolutely. Nobody was giving Phoenix a fortune for him, were they? Did GS give Miami a package for Butler Miami found perfect? Miami wanted an all-star level player, a young player with potential or expiring contracts. What did they get? Anderson and Wiggins, who will be making 40m together in 26-27, and a top-14 protected pick.
kings are at the limit on cap space so unless they can trade players to reduce cap space they are nowhere close. maybe that is why they offered bad contracts for Kuminga to reduce payroll. Saric and Carter is dead weight. Offeering 2 2nd rounders doesn’t do it. That is the problem with teh CBA for a team to give Kuminga a contract he likes they must have the warriors take their bad contracts to make space. Warriors are not taking bad contracts so Kuminga can get the minutes he wants. Kings can trade Muarry to the warriors and a 1st round pick if they feel Kuminga has that potential. Fair trade.
Because it’s free agency and other teams dont think they need to fairly compensate the Warriors. They just want to use Warriors to facilitate kuminga signing. Another reason for impasse. Everybody willing to wait.
I’m sorry Mr. Cantrope but any GM could’ve looked at the Warriors cap sheet and understood, based on Kuminga’s production, the penalties were too cost prohibitive to sign him, even before the Butler trade and extension. And if Kuminga was actually performing to a degree that warranted that extension, first the Jimmy trade doesn’t happen and second, no one would gather expiring deals because like you and I both said, it would be forgone conclusion, like most of the guys you listed off.
The fact that no one prepared to make a RFA offer to Kuminga isn’t because he was tearing the league up and they had to have him….
Because if Kuminga was balling out the Warriors wouldn’t have traded for Jimmy and they would just play Kuminga and extend him.
I would be mad if I was Kuminga if they gave the money available for my extension to a 37 year old who literally quit on his team in Miami.
Kuminga learned the hard way the older players get paid. Someday he might be in Butler’s situation. He should have taken the extension he was offered last year but wanted more.
If Murray, Braun, Mathurin and Daniels actually reached restricted free agency teams would sign some of Them to offer sheets knowing the worst it does is tie up cap space for two days nets definitely do that for one of those guys
The problem for Kuminga is beyond the Money is I don’t think any of the 29 other teams want to give him the offensive role he thinks he warrant!to pick on the nets again nobody wants to give him the role cam Thomas had last year another rfa who’s drawing blanks
No, they wouldn’t. Other than to harass the teams they are with to make them match offer sheets.
The last big-name RFA who got an offer sheet was Ayton in 2022 from Indiana. The outcome of that was that Indiana screwed over Phoenix, and nothing else.
FOs know that it’s a pointless exercise.
And having your cap locked up for 2 days is a very big penalty, considering how quickly all the best FAs get signed shortly after the free agency opens.
If RFA offer sheets process happened before the free agency opens, like sometime in June, it would be a different story.
Next summer, teams will have cap room, but not because they are anticipating Mathurin to be a RFA. Just as teams not having cap room this summer has nothing to do with RFAs that are out there and how they are perceived.
If it was a guy a team thoght could be a potential star for them they would absolutely send an offer sheet out ! Restricted free agency is dead bd only flawed players that are probably never going to be stars reach restricted free agency!
The current or future all stars get paid by their team
And again the factual truth on kuming is none of the other 29 other teams want to give him the offensive role he thinks he warrants! The suns and kings the two interested teams mentioned aren’t gonna make him their star( thus not offering warriors much) they are hoping he takes the supporting role for them he doesn’t want with warriors
I’ll simplify it! It’s not that teams don’t want Kuminga it’s that teams don’t want kuminga in the role he thinks he warrants that’s holding him up
This. Like Utah just drafted Ace they dont want to give all his touches to Kuminga.
He is an inefficient scorer that wants to be in your teams top 2 in shot attempts.
Even if it doesnt tie up your space long you wont make an offer your sure will just get matched. Thats the problem for RFA. Its super hard to get a team to do work to make you an offer when they know for sure its wasted. Like the last offer an RFA got we thought might go through was Ayton.
We’re all probably on the same page here.
This whole cap situation makes it tough, if not impossible, for the restricted free agent to get a good deal.
There’s no two ways about it and Jonathan Kuminga is a victim to the reality of the situation.
I hope for everyone involved that a trade can be made and the new team takes what JK has to offer and builds upon that and he has a long successful NBA career.
Pretty much unless you’re a superstar yes. Mid-tier free agents are going to get screwed over in comparison to years past bc of the new structure of the cap. You might see a slight rebound when teams have a better idea of how to deal with the new restrictions, but probably not much. I don’t understand why ppl say GSW are trying to lower his value. From a money standpoint, yeah it makes sense to save money, but he doesn’t want to be there and from a return on investment standpoint that doesn’t make sense. He doesn’t seem to be a great fit in Kerr’s system. It takes high IQ players and I’m not saying Kuminga can’t be that, but it’s generally not kind to young guys. When they were “young” under Kerr you had Iggy, Green (who was old for a rookie), and two guys who’s Dad’s played in the league. Barnes was their youngest contributor and he always seemed like a high upside glue guy, even in college. What I’m saying is, two things can be true at once. Kuminga has value and the Warriors don’t want to lose that for nothing, but realize he isn’t the best fit. Kerr might not be the best at grooming young players and still be a great coach. All of those things make sense considering the ineffectiveness of their two timeline approach. They should’ve gone after a reliable, youngish veteran when they had those draft picks starting with the pick they used on Wiseman.
I think you hit the nail on the head. If you are not a super star you are not getting a huge contract. The CBA made it that way where you are either a super star getting paid big money or a role player getting less than $20 million. Kuminga being an older team he is not getting the minutes he wants. If Kuminga did get $30 million a year he would be in teh top 60 players in teh NBA for pay. Is he even close to top 60? NO At $25 million he would be a top 75 player. Still not a top 75 player. At $20 million he would be in the top 90 paid NBA players.