Latest On Celtics/Clippers Talks
Yesterday we heard that the Celtics/Clippers deal involving Doc Rivers was dead, only to later come across reports that such trade talks would continue. More continues to come in about the on-again, off-again saga, much of it courtesy Mark Murphy of the Boston Herald and Baxter Holmes of the Boston Globe. Here’s what we know:
- A source tells Murphy that the deal is dead, despite insistence from the Clippers camp that it will be revived. Discussion about a Kevin Garnett-for-DeAndre Jordan trade is probably dead as well, Murphy writes.
- Rivers is still in contact with Danny Ainge and deliberating over whether he’ll return to Boston for next season, and the decision is not necessarily tied to whether the Celtics will rebuild, Murphy says.
- The Celtics postponed Friday’s press conference with Rivers and Ainge until Monday because the Clippers wanted to discuss a deal again, according to Holmes.
- Holmes hears that Rivers wants to continue coaching in the NBA, despite his well-documented misgivings about doing so with a rebuilding team. Yet sources tell Holmes that Rivers could wind up returning to broadcasting, where his salary would not match what he could get as a coach, because it might be too awkward to go back to the Boston bench at this point. Even so, Celtics management maintains that they would welcome him back.
- As Holmes points out, the Clippers were prepared to give up a first-round pick for Rivers earlier this week when it appeared there was a second, separate deal involving Garnett. Now that the two sides have pushed the Garnett talk to the backburner under pressure from the league, the Clippers only seem willing to relinquish a second-rounder for Rivers.
- Holmes hears from sources who believe the Clippers never intended to pull of a deal with the C’s, and were merely trying to make it seem as though they were to appease Chris Paul.
- A source tells Chris Sheridan of SheridanHoops.com that Rivers and Rajon Rondo had a locker-room altercation that nearly turned into a physical confrontation. “An intense dislike” for Rondo is part of Rivers’ motivation for leaving the Celtics, Sheridan writes. Rich Levine of CSNNE.com tweets his doubts that such an incident took place, and believes that if it did, it may have happened as far back as 2010.
- In a separate piece, Holmes notes that Celtics assistant coach Mike Longabardi has accepted a position on Jeff Hornacek‘s coaching staff with the Suns. He’s the only Celtics assistant to have depared the team this offseason.
Latest On Clippers/Celtics Negotiations
3:22pm: The Celtics and Rivers' camp are "rapidly" coming to believe that no deal is going to be reached with the Clippers, according to Wojnarowski (via Twitter).
2:59pm: Although the Clippers raised the idea of sending Boston a second-round pick as compensation for Rivers, the Celtics are holding out for a first-rounder, tweets Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports. That would suggest that perhaps the 2015 first-rounder mentioned below hasn't officially been put on the table yet. According to Wojnarowski, the two sides aren't making much progress at this point.
12:47pm: The ongoing saga involving the Clippers, the Celtics, Doc Rivers, and Kevin Garnett took another odd twist this morning, when the Celtics sent out a press release announcing that Rivers and GM Danny Ainge would speak to the media today. Shortly after that announcement, the Celtics postponed the press conference until Monday, tentatively at noon eastern, according to Ben Rohrbach of WEEI.com (via Twitter).
As Baxter Holmes of the Boston Globe notes (via Twitter), the unusual move by the Celtics may have been designed to push the Clippers into action. The Clips had previously been unwilling to give up first-round draft picks as compensation for Rivers, but the threat of a press conference in Boston (perhaps to announce that Rivers would be returning) may have changed that, says Holmes.
Hall of Fame scribe Mark Heisler confirms as much, reporting (via Twitter) that the Clippers have now offered a protected 2015 first-round pick for Rivers. If the two sides can reach an agreement on compensation for Rivers, a Doc deal could be completed today, according to Heisler (Twitter link). However, he adds that the same can't be said for a trade involving Garnett. Due to CBA rules, the NBA has essentially insisted that Rivers and KG would have to be moved in separate, unrelated transactions.
To clarify that last point: Because NBA head coaches can't officially be traded, the Celtics aren't allowed to include Rivers in a Garnett deal. Instead, they'd have to release Rivers from his contract, allowing him to sign with the Clippers, making a potential KG/DeAndre Jordan swap an entirely separate transaction.
But the CBA also doesn't allow teams to make two separate moves that are contingent on one another, so the Clippers have shifted their focus to Rivers for now, in hopes of hiring him and then pursuing Garnett at a later date. If the Clips were to land Rivers and agree to acquire Garnett later, they'd have to convince the NBA that the two moves were made independently of one another.
For more details on how these negotiations have played out, check out our posts rounding up the updates from Wednesday and from Thursday.
Clippers Targeting Rivers First; KG, Pierce Later
7:28pm: Dan Woike of the OC Register tweets that Los Angeles isn't optimistic that the league will ever allow them to acquire both Garnett and Rivers.
7:10pm: ESPN's Ramona Shelburne tweets that the Clippers are in no rush to get something done, knowing that two of the three candidates they've interviewed will be available for a while.
7:00pm: Rivers is said to be growing frustrated by the lack of closure on the deal and could take himself out of it if things aren't resolved by tomorrow morning, writes Bulpett. Though another source tells Bulpett that process has come too far along to turn away now.
6:21pm: Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald (via Twitter) says that there was no deal presented to the league today because the Clippers have yet to meet the Celtics' asking price.
4:43pm: According to Wojnarowski, the Celtics would just want one first-round pick as compensation for releasing Rivers from his contract. If the two sides eventually returned to talks involving Garnett, the Celtics would want another first-rounder along with Jordan, says Wojnarowski.
However, the Clippers still haven't extended an offer of compensation to Boston, and there's concern from people involved in the talks that L.A.'s front office doesn't have the authority to meet the Celtics' request. Clippers management had privately insisted to people they were waiting on Donald Sterling's approval for the draft-pick compensation.
4:07pm: Although the Clippers want to set aside the Garnett discussions for now, they haven't shown a willingness to offer even one first-round pick for the rights to Rivers, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports. Wojnarowski adds that talks are going nowhere until the Clippers relent on at least one pick (Twitter links).
Since it was previously reported that the deal for Garnett and Rivers would include two first-rounders along with Jordan, this new information is a little confusing. Obviously, the Clippers wouldn't give up two first-round picks and Jordan for Garnett alone, so it had appeared the team was willing to give up a first-rounder or two for Rivers.
The equation has likely changed now for one of two reasons: If the Clippers reach an agreement for Doc first, there's no guarantee they'll be able to work out a separate deal for KG later, so the team may be unwilling to part with first-round picks for just a coach, rather than the duo as a package. The Clippers also may feel they've regained some leverage, since Stern's public comments today suggested the NBA was uneasy about attaching significant trade value to head coaches. Both of those theories are my own speculation though.
Clippers/Celtics Updates: Thursday
3:12pm: The Clippers and Celtics haven't talked for several hours, sources tell Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports (Twitter link). However, Wojnarowski reports that the Clips would still like to get the deal done and are working on ways to satisfy the league's concerns.
1:00pm: Sam Amick of USA Today suggests that for the deal to be completed, one of two adjustments may have to be made. The Celtics may have to give up something more in the deal along with Garnett, most likely draft picks; or the Clippers may be able to give up slightly less.
According to Amick, the NBA believes that the "mere appearance that there is value being attached to Rivers" is not in accordance with the CBA, so it's Garnett's trade value that should be at the center of the discussion, rather than Rivers' value.
12:52pm: The league's primary concern with the proposed Celtics/Clippers deal is that the CBA doesn't allow coaches to be traded, as Broderick Turner of the Los Angeles Times writes. Breaking it up into two separate moves would still be frowned upon by the NBA, a source tells Turner, since the Clippers are trying to get Rivers more than anything else.
The league has told the two teams for "several days" that the deal as currently constructed isn't legitamite, so the two sides are working to come up with an alternate solution, according to Turner.
12:26pm: Appearing on The Herd with Colin Cowherd on ESPN Radio today (video link), commissioner David Stern confirmed that the NBA wants to ensure the Celtics and Clippers aren't violating the CBA by including a head coach in a trade or by making two separate deals that are contingent on one another.
"If we know that what the parties really wanted to do is one [deal] they're going to break into two for purposes of trying to avoid the restrictions that the Collective Bargaining Agreement places on it, we know how to deal with that," Stern said.
11:36am: Stein reports (via Twitter) that the Celtics and Clippers have begun discussing new trade scenarios in an attempt to satisfy the league's misgivings about the two deals.
Clippers, Celtics Re-Engage On Trade Talks
UPDATE 10:44pm: We suddenly have a number of late-night updates, courtesy of Shelburne, who reports that the Clippers have backed off their refusal to include two first round draft picks in the deal. She also reports that the deal should get done by Thursday, and the Clippers believe it will ensure that Paul re-signs with the team on July 1 rather than becoming an unrestricted free agent.
Because coaches cannot be traded, the deal must consist of two separate transactions – first a swap of Jordan for Garnett and then a transmission of the two drafts picks from L.A. to Boston as compensation for the release of Rivers from his contract. Because of this, Shelburne says that the teams will have to then convince the NBA that the two deals are not contigent on each other and that they are, in fact, separate transactions in order to meet the standards of the league's CBA.
8:28pm: A deal will not be finalized tonight, tweets Brad Turner of the Los Angeles Times. The talks that resumed today will pick back up tomorrow morning.
6:53pm: Per Marc Stein and Ramona Shelburne on Twitter, one source close to the trade talks expressed optimism that the teams could come to terms tonight.
5:56pm: Merely a day after both sides suggested the deal was dead, the Clippers and Celtics have re-opened trade discussions involving Kevin Garnett and Doc Rivers, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports (via Twitter). While they appeared to be moving on with their coaching search, the Clippers reached out to the Celtics today to resume dialogue and according to Wojnarowski, Chris Paul's insistence was a big reason why. Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe tweets that the Clips are now determined to get a deal done, which could lead to a sweetener in the deal for the Celtics.
We know that Rivers was set to meet with C's GM Danny Ainge today. Ramona Shelburne of ESPN Los Angeles tweets that that meeting has officially ended, curiously at about the same time we heard that talked had been reignited. Citing a source close to Rivers, Shelburne writes that Rivers does want to coach next season but would like another shot at a championship, which he knows will not happen if Boston chooses to rebuild. Washburn also tweets if the C's lose Rivers, expect Ainge to look for a younger replacement like Brian Shaw or Heat assistant David Fizdale.
Meanwhile, sources tell ESPN.com's Chris Broussard that the meeting between Clippers owner Donald Sterling and head coaching candidate Byron Scott went "very well," yesterday. Shaw, who was scheduled to meet with Sterling today, is currently at the Clippers' office, tweets Dan Woike of the Orange County Register.
Talks between the two sides reportedly ended yesterday when the Clippers refused to include a second first-round draft pick in an offer that included DeAndre Jordan and one first-rounder. Jordan's $3MM trade kicker and the potential inclusion of Courtney Lee's or Jason Terry's contract were also believed to possible points of contention. There are a ton of balls in the air for both teams in this situation. Stay tuned.
Negotiations End, No Deal For Celtics, Clippers
2:33pm: According to tweets from Ramona Shelburne and Arash Markazi of ESPN.com, financial concerns weren't the reason the Clippers pulled out of the deal. The team was prepared to give Rivers a big contract, but didn't want to give up two first-round picks in the move (Twitter links).
11:46am: According to Wojnarowski (via Twitter), Ainge has called Rivers to inform him that talks are over and that he still wants Rivers back as the Celtics' coach.
11:41am: Sources tell Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports (Twitter link) that the Clippers got "cold feet" over the financial commitment necessary to complete the deal. Even if Terry and Lee weren't involved, the Clips would have been paying Jordan's trade kicker and committing a $6-7MM annual salary to Rivers.
11:31am: The Clippers don't appear to be posturing when they say talks are over, according to Turner, who tweets that the deal is "dead, dead, dead." Amick and Dan Woike of the Orange County Register are also hearing the same thing (Twitter links). Celtics GM Danny Ainge confirms to Baxter Holmes of the Boston Globe (Twitter link) that negotiations are over from Boston's perspective as well.
11:01am: After days of negotiating, the Clippers appear to have called off a potential deal with the Celtics that would have sent Kevin Garnett and coach Doc Rivers to L.A., according to Broderick Turner of the Los Angeles Times (via Twitter). Turner hears from a Clippers executive that the Celtics were asking for too much in the proposed swap.
Earlier today, we heard that while the Celtics would have liked to include Jason Terry's or Courtney Lee's contract in the deal, Boston was willing to hang on to those players if the Clippers gave up two first-round picks. However, according to Turner (via Twitter), the Clippers were unwilling to part with multiple first-rounders in addition to DeAndre Jordan. Los Angeles will move forward with its head coaching search, as owner Donald Sterling prepares to meet with Byron Scott today and Brian Shaw tomorrow, says Turner (via Twitter).
I'm a little surprised that a second first-round pick would be the sticking point for the Clippers, considering how many other concessions the Celtics appear to have made, including agreeing not to include Eric Bledsoe in the deal. The Clippers figured to be a perennial contender in the West for the next several years if they locked up Chris Paul to go along with a roster that would also include Blake Griffin, Garnett, and whatever other assets the team acquired this summer, so those future picks would likely have landed late in the first round.
It would seem to be in the best interests of both teams to get something done — for the Clippers, it virtually guarantees Paul would re-sign with the team in July, while for the Celtics it would mean starting their rebuilding process in earnest. Both sides wanted closure one way or the other early this week, so it's possible that talks are indeed dead, as Sam Amick of USA Today is also hearing (Twitter link). But as Amick notes, until the Clippers officially hire a head coach besides Rivers, it's hard to believe both teams would truly walk away from this deal.
Clippers/Celtics Updates: Tuesday
Even with Game Six of the NBA Finals less than 12 hours away, the hottest topic around the Association remains the trade talks between the Clippers and Celtics involving Kevin Garnett, DeAndre Jordan, and Doc Rivers. We rounded up a ton of reports on the story yesterday, but by the end of the night, the two sides had yet to reach an agreement. As the two sides continue to negotiate, we'll round up the latest rumors on the proposed deal below, with any additional updates coming throughout the day:
- As we noted last night, Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports reported that the deal may get done without the Clippers giving up Eric Bledsoe or taking on Jason Terry's or Courtney Lee's contracts. In that scenario, Boston would be seeking Jordan and two first-round picks. Ramona Shelburne and Marc Stein of ESPN.com reported that the Clips were unwilling to acquire both Terry and Lee, but still may take on one of the two — however, according to Wojnarowski, L.A. has refused to take on additional salary "in any combination."
- In the event an agreement is reached, the Clippers would have to pay about $3.5MM for Jordan's 15% trade kicker and would also be prepared to offer Rivers a five-year contract worth about $35MM, writes Wojnarowski. So the move would represent a significant financial commitment for the franchise even without Terry or Lee involved.
- While there's still optimism that a deal will get done, the Clippers are preparing a contingency plan for their head coaching opening, having owner Donald Sterling meet with Byron Scott on Tuesday and Brian Shaw on Wednesday, according to Shelburne and Stein. As for Rivers, he remains "torn" on whether he'd return to the Celtics should this deal fall apart, says Wojnarowski.
- Although various outlets are reporting slightly different details on the talks, all of the latest reports, including those from ESPN.com, Yahoo!, and Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, agree that Bledsoe is off the table and won't be part of the deal if it gets done.
Clippers/Celtics Updates: Monday
The trade talks between the Celtics and Clippers aren't quite dead yet, but they also didn't move forward at all yesterday, as we detailed in a pair of posts rounding up Sunday's updates. Though the two sides have reached a stalemate for now, they continue to engage in talks and hope remains of finding an agreement, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports (via Twitter). We'll keep tabs on today's new items right here, with any further updates added to the top of the page throughout the day:
- The price to complete the deal may come down to the Clippers' willingness to include a second first-round pick, sources tell Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports. After pushing for the Clippers to take back long-term contracts, the C's relented and have shown willingness to complete the deal for DeAndre Jordan and two first-round picks. The Clippers are willing to give the Celtics Jordan and one draft pick, but are resisting a second future pick. Boston has also dropped their pursuit of Eric Bledsoe, which could help speed things along.
- The two sides have decided to leave the office for the evening and will reconnect tomorrow morning, league sources tell Wojnarowski (Twitter link).
Earlier updates:
Clippers/Celtics Updates: Sunday
There were a lot of moving parts involved in Saturday's dominant storyline, a proposed trade that would send Celtics mainstays Doc Rivers and Kevin Garnett to the Clippers. Marc Stein and Ramona Shelburne of ESPN.com, with an assist from Chris Broussard, as well as Broderick Turner of the Los Angeles Times rounded up the relevant details late last night. Based on their reports, here's what we know right now:
- The Celtics are seeking Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan and at least one future first-round pick in return for Garnett and Rivers. They're also insisting the Clippers take on the contract of either Jason Terry or Courtney Lee.
- The Clippers are reluctant to give up Bledsoe, in large measure because of his value for other potential swaps, perhaps a sign-and-trade for Dwight Howard. Still, a source tells Turner that a swap of Bledsoe and Blake Griffin for Howard won't happen.
- An executive told Turner that the Clippers appear to be holding up the deal, while the Celtics want to hurry it along, given Rivers' desire to coach the Clips.
- If the Clippers do the deal, they'd follow by pursuing Paul Pierce. The Celtics may waive Pierce by June 30th to prevent his $15.3MM contract, which is partially guaranteed for $5MM until that date, from becoming fully guaranteed.
- Clippers owner Donald Sterling is willing to give Rivers a three-year deal worth about $6MM per year, or about $1MM less annually than what Rivers would make with the Celtics.
- The Celtics are prepared to bring Rivers back as their coach if no deal is reached with the Clippers. Garnett, like Rivers, has yet to commit to playing next season, but the chance of him doing so would be significantly enhanced if Pierce is back with the Celtics as well.
- If the trade doesn't happen by Tuesday or Wednesday, the Clippers will choose between Lionel Hollins and Brian Shaw for their next coach. Of the two, Hollins is the front-runner, but both are also in the mix for the Nuggets job.
Odds & Ends: Clippers, Afflalo, Karl
The Celtics–Clippers saga continues with Yahoo Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski saying that Eric Bledsoe had been a part of discussions between the two teams until Saturday morning (Twitter). The Boston Herald's Steve Bulpett mentioned earlier that Doc Rivers might feel uncomfortable returning to the Celtics after this flirtation with the Clippers, but Wojnarowski said within the Celtics it hasn't been acrimonious between team and Doc (Twitter).
ESPNLosAngeles.com's Ramona Shelburne thinks the Clippers should dare the Celtics to cut Paul Pierce (he's owed $15.3MM if he's not waived before June 30th), and see if Kevin Garnett and Rivers will really hold to their promise to only be moved from the Celtics as a tandem (Twitter). Shelburne goes on to cite an objective league source who proposed the Clippers keep DeAndre Jordan and Bledsoe, sign Pierce after he's waived, and trade Caron Butler and a pick for Garnett (Twitter).
Shelburne also says that the Clippers have been "shaking every tree" looking for a third star to complement Blake Griffin and Chris Paul if he re-signs this summer (Twitter). According to Shelburne, the Clippers have expressed interest in Danny Granger and Arron Afflalo already as a possible third threat on their roster.
Here are some more tidbits about the Clippers and Celtics as well as other teams around the league on this rumor-filled Saturday night with a huge game 5 in the NBA Finals tomorrow.
- Shelburne also reports there's nothing yet between the Clippers and Lionel Hollins (Twitter), which means it probably won't happen until the Rivers talks die for good.
- Broderick Turner of the Los Angeles Times on the impasse surrounding the Clippers–Celtics talks, and Marc Stein and Shelburne at ESPN.com have updated their post about the ongoing trade talks between the Clippers and Celtics.
- Josh Robbins of the Orlando Sentinel with some more about Magic off-guard, Arron Afflalo, who tweeted out tonight that he was "listening and observing" with all the Clippers rumors.
- Lost amid the Garnett and Doc trade rumors is the very real possibility the Celtics waive Pierce and he joins the Clippers or Lakers since he grew in Los Angeles' tough Inglewood neighborhood, writes ESPNLA.com's Arash Markazi.
- Markazi also thinks the Clippers should pull the trigger on the Doc and Garnett deal despite losing Bledsoe because he feels Rivers is an improvement over proposed coaching hires, Hollins or Brian Shaw (Twitter).
- Ronald Tillery of the Commercial Appeal reports the Grizzlies will interview George Karl for their head coaching vacancy on Tuesday.
- Jonathan Feigen of the Houston Chronicle reports that the Rockets will be looking to spend big in free agency this summer. They'll obviously target free agents, Dwight Howard and Chris Paul, but they're also looking to add more veterans to such a young team.
- Mary Schmitt Boyer of the Cleveland Plain Dealer talks about whether the Cavs made a mistake hiring Mike Brown so soon with so many available coaches this offseason.
- Sam Amico of Fox Sports Ohio chatted with former Celtics great, Dave Cowens, about what Jason Kidd needs to do differently now that he's no longer playing, but instead is the Nets' new head coach.
- Kidd did a Q&A with Steve Serby at the New York Post about his new coaching job.
- Speaking of the Nets, Jared Zwerling of ESPNNewYork.com spoke to their point guard Deron Williams about a rivalry "forming" between the Knicks and Nets.
- Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News writes about Nets GM Billy King taking a risk on Kidd as a coaching hire despite his lack of coaching experience because Kidd is close to the Nets' point guard, Williams.