Hoops Rumors Community Shootaround 10/22/15
The contract impasse between the Cavaliers and restricted free agent power forward Tristan Thompson has ended with the two sides signing a five-year, $82MM deal earlier today. This new pact will make Thompson the sixth highest paid power forward in the league behind Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, Paul Millsap, and David Lee. It’s certainly debatable whether or not Thompson is worthy of being compensated at this level, especially given the luxury tax hit that will be tacked on. Thompson’s numbers through 306 career NBA contests are 10.1 points, 8.4 rebounds, and 0.7 blocks to accompany a slash line of .488/.000/.633.
Which brings me to the topic for today: Is Tristan Thompson worth the amount of his new five-year, $82MM deal?
While Thompson is certainly a talented player whose full potential has yet to be tapped, he hasn’t demonstrated the ability to be more than an upper-tier role-player thus far in his career, which makes this deal a bit difficult to swallow from my perspective. But Cleveland does receive a secondary benefit beyond keeping Thompson in its rotation for the next five years, seeing as how LeBron James, who shares the same agent with Thompson, wanted the young power forward back with the team. Since LeBron can hit free agency after this season, keeping the superstar happy certainly is in the team’s best interests.
But what say you? Is Thompson worth Cleveland making this deal, and absorbing an even higher luxury tax penalty as a result? What numbers would Thompson need to produce to give the team its money’s worth? Take to the comments section below to share your thoughts and opinions. We look forward to what you have to say.
Fallout From/Reaction To Tristan Thompson Deal
The Cavs began with an offer to Tristan Thompson that was about $70MM and only moved up to $80MM roughly six weeks ago, Terry Pluto of the Plain Dealer hears. Reports that they were close to an $80MM deal on the first day of free agency were off-base, according to Pluto, who recounts the motivations for all parties involved, including the promise that Dan Gilbert made to LeBron James that he would spent to help the team win.
Here’s more regarding Thompson and the Cavs:
- Cleveland slightly increased its offer in the days leading up to the deal, a source told Jason Lloyd of the Akron Beacon Journal.
- Neither side in the Thompson negotiations came out a clear winner as both player and team stand to reap value from the deal, writes Dave McMenamin of ESPN.com.
- DeMarcus Cousins appeared to criticize Cleveland’s outlay, taking to Twitter with the message “How much???,” a public statement that was “thoroughly foolish” and “thoroughly revealing” as labor negotiations between owners and the players union loom, McMenamin argues in the same piece.
- Thompson’s new deal illustrates just how willing Gilbert and the Cavaliers organization is to spend money in pursuit of an NBA title, Chris Haynes of The Northeast Ohio Media Group writes.
- With a new labor agreement on the horizon in 2017, there is an excellent chance that Cleveland will have the opportunity to waive Thompson via the amnesty provision if his contract turns out to be an albatross, writes Tom Ziller of SBNation. Ziller notes that amnesty clauses are generally a part of new labor agreements, which would provide the team a means to clear Thompson’s cap hit off its books, though it would still be responsible for any remaining salary owed to the power forward.
- Keeping James happy played a large role in the Cavs signing Thompson, which is an added benefit to retaining the young big man, since James has the ability to opt out of his deal after the season is completed, Ken Berger of CBSSports.com writes.
Cavs Re-Sign Tristan Thompson
2:02pm: The deal is official, the Cavs announced.
THURSDAY, 1:41pm: Thompson has put pen to paper on his contract, Haynes tweets. The Cavs have yet to acknowledge the signing publicly.
WEDNESDAY, 5:58pm: The Cavaliers and restricted free agent power forward Tristan Thompson have reached an agreement on a five-year, $82MM deal, Chris Haynes of The Northeast Ohio Media Group reports (Twitter link). Rich Paul, Thompson’s agent, has confirmed the agreement with the Cavs to Marc J. Spears of Yahoo Sports (Twitter link), who also notes that the pact is fully guaranteed. The arrangement includes no options, Brian Windhorst of ESPN.com tweets.
This news comes as a bit of a surprise, seeing how the two sides reportedly haven’t been in contact with each other since Thompson let the Cavaliers’ qualifying offer expire at the beginning of October. Cleveland held the upper hand in these negotiations since Thompson’s choices were limited to signing a long term deal with the Cavs, signing an offer sheet with another team, or continuing to sit out. March 1st would have been the last day for him to sign an offer sheet this season, if the drama dragged on that long, and if he held out all season, Cleveland would have had the chance to issue another qualifying offer to renew his restricted free agency next July.
It had appeared on the opening day of free agency that the sides were close on a five-year, $80MM deal, but the power forward instead had reportedly sought the max of around $94MM over five years, though Thompson was later said to prefer a three-year max contract, something that Cleveland had little interest in agreeing to. The full value of a three-year max for Thompson would have been worth precisely $52,914,188. Tim Bontemps of The New York Post had predicted that Thompson would end up re-signing for five years and $85MM, a number not far off the amount reported by Haynes.
The 24-year-old will become the sixth highest paid power forward in the league behind Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, Paul Millsap, and David Lee. It’s debatable whether or not Thompson is worth being compensated at this level, especially given the luxury tax hit that will be tacked on. Thompson’s numbers through 306 career NBA contests are 10.1 points, 8.4 rebounds, and 0.7 blocks to accompany a slash line of .488/.000/.633.
The Cavaliers currently possess a roster count of 20 players, including 13 with fully guaranteed contracts, which is the preseason maximum, so a corresponding move will need to be made prior to Thompson’s deal becoming official.
Cavs Waive Nick Minnerath
2:01pm: The move is official, the team announced.
1:01pm: The Cavs will waive combo forward Nick Minnerath to make room for Tristan Thompson, reports Chris Haynes of the Northeast Ohio Media Group and the Cleveland Plain Dealer (Twitter link). The team is at the 20-man roster maximum and can’t officially re-sign Thompson until it releases someone, and it looks like Minnerath is the one to go. The 26-year-old who went undrafted out of the University of Detroit Mercy in 2013 joined the Cavs last month on a non-guaranteed deal.
Minnerath averaged 2.7 points in 9.8 minutes per game over three preseason appearances for Cleveland. He spent the first two seasons of his pro career playing in France and Spain, though he had brushes with the NBA during summer league in 2013 and 2014. He’ll next play for the D-League affiliate of the Cavs assuming he clears waivers, Haynes writes in a full story, so it looks like the Cavs will make him one of the four camp cuts whose D-League rights they’re allowed to claim.
Cleveland plans to keep its roster at the 20-man preseason maximum as long as possible, as Haynes reported last week, which means the Cavs probably won’t make extensive cuts until Saturday, the last day for teams to waive summer contracts without them counting against the cap. The Cavs had been planning to carry only 14 players on opening night, as Haynes also reported prior to the Thompson deal, so that puts the non-guaranteed contracts of Dionte Christmas, Quinn Cook, Jack Cooley, Jared Cunningham, Austin Daye and D.J. Stephens in jeopardy.
How Tristan Thompson Deal Affects Cavs Tax Bill
The Cavaliers finally struck a deal to sign Tristan Thompson on Wednesday night when the sides reached agreement on a five-year, $82MM arrangement, as Chris Haynes of the Northeast Ohio Media Group and the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported. The precise value of the contract is still unknown, but Thompson will draw a salary of $14.2MM this season, a source told Jeff Zillgitt of USA Today (Twitter link). [UPDATE, 4:00pm: The precise value of this season’s salary for Thompson, who has officially re-signed, is $14,260,870, reports Eric Pincus of Basketball Insiders (Twitter link). So, we’ve revised the numbers you see below accordingly.] That’s the key figure in what likely proved a stumbling block as negotiations dragged on for months: the luxury tax.
The Cavaliers already had a payroll well above the $84.74MM tax threshold before coming to terms with Thompson, and signing him means Cleveland is in line to shell out a total that’s second only to the $190MM-plus the Nets paid in taxes and salary during the 2013/14 season. The league makes its tax calculations according to payrolls on the final day of the regular season, so it’s still too early to determine exactly how much the Cavs will pay. However, the $14,260,870 figure for Thompson shows the sort of financial straits the Cavs are getting themselves into.
Cleveland was a taxpayer this past season, but the team is not in line for repeat-offender penalties, which kick in when a team pays the tax in at least three years out of the previous four. That’s a saving grace, but the Cavs will still be paying plenty. Their existing amount of guaranteed salary, before Thompson, was $94,907,206, according to Eric Pincus of Basketball Insiders. All of it was committed to the 13 Cavaliers aside from Thompson who have fully guaranteed salaries this season, since the Cavs aren’t carrying any partial guarantees. Adding $14,260,870 to that figure would bring it to $109,168,076, or $24,428,076 more than the tax line.
That number reflects the team’s salary as it relates to the cap, but the tax incorporates other calculations. Any Cavs player who triggers an incentive clause in his contract that the league deems they’re unlikely to achieve would make the number rise accordingly for tax purposes. Conversely, if any of the Cavs fail to meet likely incentives, the team’s tax number would go down. The tax also treats all minimum-salary contracts equally, except for players whom teams signed as draft picks. That makes Joe Harris, last year’s 33rd overall pick, cheaper for the Cavs than most other players on minimum-salary contracts would be. His $845,059 one-year veteran’s minimum salary, which is fully guaranteed, is reflected on the team’s payroll as just that. If the Cavs were to keep Jack Cooley on his $845,059 one-year veteran’s minimum contract for the entire season, it would show up at $947,276 when the league adds up Cleveland’s payroll at season’s end.
The estimated $109,168,076 payroll figure for Cleveland, which includes Thompson, entails a roster of 14 players, one shy of the regular season maximum. Most teams carry 15 on opening night, and almost every team has a 15th player at some point during the year. Teams usually make at least slight changes to their personnel over the course of the season, so it’s a stretch to assume that Thompson and the 13 other fully guaranteed players will constitute the Cavs roster by season’s end. However, here’s how the league would tax the Cavs in the event that $109,168,076 figure holds:
- Cleveland would first have to pay a $7.5MM penalty for exceeding the tax line by at least $4,999,999.
- Penalties of $8.75MM, $12.5MM and $16.25MM would follow, since the team would also burst through the next three tax brackets.
- The Cavs would have to pay $3.75 for every dollar they spent above $20MM. Since the Cavs would be $24,367,206 above the tax threshold, they would pay $4,428,076 times $3.75, or $16,605,285.
- Add $16,605,285 to $7.5MM, $8.75MM, $12.5MM and $16.25MM, and you get a total tax bill of $61,605,285.
This scenario would mean a payout of $170,773,361 in salary and taxes. Again, that’s an estimate, since the Cavs are bound to make roster changes between now and the end of the season and incentives clauses could come into play. Still, it demonstrates the kind of financial commitment that owner Dan Gilbert is making. Cleveland’s first pro championship since 1964 would carry tremendous psychological value to the city’s sports fans, and for Cavs ownership, the prospect of delivering that title is apparently worth plenty in actual value, too.
And-Ones: Cavs, Davis, Aldridge, Kobe, Teodosic
The Cavaliers are the pick to win it all and LeBron James is the favorite for MVP in the league’s annual GM survey, as John Schuhmann of NBA.com presents. More than half the executives who responded favor the Cavs, while the Warriors garnered only 17.9% of the vote, the third-lowest percentage for a defending champ in the 13-year history of the GM survey. Still, neither of last year’s Finals teams has Anthony Davis, whom a whopping 86.2% of respondents selected as the player they’d most want to build their teams around.
LaMarcus Aldridge drew 79.3% of the vote for the offseason acquisition who’ll make the greatest impact, and the Spurs garnered the same percentage for the team that had the best offseason, unsurprisingly. See more on Aldridge’s decision amid the latest from around the NBA:
- Aldridge thought he would re-sign with the Trail Blazers when he put off thumb surgery last season, and he thinks the Blazers did all they could to keep him, but the lure of playing closer to his home in Texas proved too great when the time came for a decision, as he told Chris Mannix of SI.com. Aldridge said to Mannix that the idea that he left Portland because he couldn’t get along with Damian Lillard was overblown, and that while he and Lillard mutually acknowledged that they could have communicated better with each other, they don’t have a poor relationship. “But I never had an issue playing with him or anything like that or with him being the face or them promoting him or anything like that,” Aldridge said in part. “If I had an issue like that then why go to the Spurs? They don’t promote anybody.”
- Kobe Bryant‘s presence was one of the best parts of meeting with the Lakers this summer, Aldridge insisted to Mannix for the same piece, striking back at the notion that he didn’t want to play with the Lakers star.
- The GM poll also shows 28-year-old shooting guard Milos Teodosic, who plays for CSKA Moscow but whose NBA rights aren’t tied to any team, as the second-best international player outside the NBA aside from Sixers draft-and-stash prospect Dario Saric. Plus, more GMs want to see revamped lottery odds than any other rules change.
Central Notes: Robinson, LeBron, Dudley, Noah
Pacers coach Frank Vogel said at the start of training camp that Glenn Robinson III would probably spend time on assignment to the D-League this season, but his play in preseason has challenged that idea, writes Mark Montieth of Pacers.com. It’s clear the team is high on him, having been impressed with his performance during informal scrimmages before camp.
“What he showed in September is that he’s real,” coach Frank Vogel said. “He’s not a couple-years-away guy. We have guys ahead of him probably, but there were days in September when he was the best player on the court. That was very, very impressive to me. He’s got a great attitude, and he’s got all the physical tools with the speed and athleticism. He has the tools to be a steal.”
Robinson signed with Indiana this summer on a three-year, $3.241MM deal that includes a fully guaranteed salary for this season. See more from the Central Division:
- LeBron James turns 31 in December, but he’s still capable of bearing a heavy load for the Cavaliers, coach David Blatt contends, according to Dave McMenamin of ESPN.com. “I would hesitate to put Bron in the category of an advanced-age player,” Blatt said. “He’s not. He is in terms of the number of games he’s played or given the fact that he’s constantly deep into the playoffs and his greatness helps his team achieve those levels.”
- Jared Dudley complimented the Bucks owners and said that he was on board with the trade that sent him to the Wizards this summer, one that he said he and his agent had spoken about ahead of time, as Charles F. Gardner of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel details.
- A decent chance exists that Joakim Noah will begin this season, the last one on his contract, coming off the bench, observes K.C. Johnson of the Chicago Tribune. Noah continues to display a team-first attitude for the Bulls, but removal from the starting lineup with free agency looming would challenge that demeanor, Johnson posits. “Coach is going to have a lot of decisions to make in terms of matchups and things like that,” Noah said recently. “Whatever Coach does, I’m cool with it.”
Top Bloggers: David Zavac On The Cavaliers
Anyone can have a blog about an NBA team, but some set themselves apart from the rest with the dedication and valuable insight they bring to their craft. We’ll be sharing some knowledge from these dialed-in writers on Hoops Rumors in a new feature called Top Bloggers. As with The Beat, our ongoing series of interviews with NBA beat writers, it’s part of an effort to bring Hoops Rumors readers ever closer to the pulse of the teams they follow. Last time, we spoke with Jason Patt, Managing Editor of TodaysFastbreak.com and a contributor at SB Nation’s Blog a Bull. Click here to see the entire Top Bloggers series.
Next up is David Zavac, who is the Managing Editor of SB Nation’s Fear the Sword. You can follow David on Twitter at @DavidZavac and click here to check out his stories.
Hoops Rumors: How surprised are you that the qualifying offer deadline came and went and Tristan Thompson still hasn’t signed?
David Zavac: Very surprised. The Cavs and Thompson’s agent Rich Paul have a great relationship. Many credit Paul for keeping lines of communication open between owner Dan Gilbert and LeBron James after the latter took his talents to South Beach. There’s relatively obvious middle ground for a five year deal around $82-85MM. With the threat of a qualifying offer gone, I understand why the Cavs might not feel the need to budge anymore. It doesn’t look like they will, unless …
Hoops Rumors: Do the Cavs have the kind of depth necessary to withstand the absence of Thompson and all the injuries they’re dealing with, or do they need to add someone?
David Zavac: … Unless the Cavs’ frontcourt really struggles early on. Kevin Love is working back from shoulder surgery, and Timo Mozgov is working back from knee surgery. Anderson Varejao is working back from a torn Achilles, and Sasha Kaun has never played in the NBA. That’s the frontcourt. Varejao wasn’t effective next to Love last season before his injury, so it’s hard to expect much. If the Cavs are hovering around .500, maybe they cave on Thompson. I wouldn’t count on it, though.
Hoops Rumors: Jared Cunningham has been a pleasant surprise so far in the preseason. Can you envision him sticking for the regular season and seeing meaningful minutes this year?
David Zavac: I could see him making the team, but I doubt he becomes a big part of the rotation long term. Iman Shumpert and Kyrie Irving will be out early on, so maybe he would get an opportunity. Hard to see him cracking a nine-man rotation when the team is healthy, though.
Hoops Rumors: Love signed a five-year, maximum-salary deal this summer despite his off year last season. What has to happen on the floor for him to bounce back and justify that contract?
David Zavac: I’ll go against the grain and say that he can do exactly what he did last season and be worth the money. He’s a perfect floor spacer for Kyrie Irving and LeBron James. Those guys can run the pick-and-roll with either Mozgov or Thompson and there’s nothing but space and dunks. Love knocking down the shots on kick outs and being the multifaceted threat that he is allows for hyper-efficiency from James and Irving, and the Cavs score at a historic rate when the Big 3 play together. Thompson and Mozgov both fit very, very well with Love and the rest of the Big 3. If Love gets more opportunities to facilitate or steps up his defense a bit, that’s great. If not, that’s great too. He’s still providing ridiculous value.
Hoops Rumors: The Cavs traded the draft rights to Tyus Jones and Rakeem Christmas and went the draft-and-stash route with Cedi Osman and Sir’Dominic Pointer. The Cavs are clearly in win-now mode, but are they sacrificing too much of the future for the sake of the present?
David Zavac: Probably not. Irving, Thompson, Shumpert, and Kevin Love are still pretty young and are either locked in long term or figure to be locked in long term pretty soon. That’s a nice young core with a couple of superstars. It’s not fun to see your team punt on draft picks and what not, but no one knows like Cavs fans just how little most rookies and young players can contribute early on.
Hoops Rumors: The Eastern Conference doesn’t pose much of a threat, but how do the Cavs stack up against the Western Conference heavies?
David Zavac: Assuming the Cavs are at full strength, they should have a great shot against nearly everyone. Without Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving they were within two games of winning last season. The talk of Kevin Love being sat in fourth quarters and not fitting was overblown. The Cavs were 33-3 when they were healthy to close out the season. The Warriors, Rockets, and Spurs all figure to be very good. I’d be optimistic if I were writing about them as well. Hopefully whoever comes out of the conference finals will be healthy and we can get a good look.
Central Notes: Bullock, Cunningham, Cavaliers
Reggie Bullock is very likely to make the Pistons‘ roster, and the team is considering picking up his option for 2016/17, reports Vince Ellis of The Detroit Free Press. Detroit has until November 2nd to decide on the option, which is worth $2.2MM. Ellis cites an unidentified source with “firsthand knowledge” who says the move is being considered.
“If they pick this up, I know that I will be here at least still getting paid NBA money,” Bullock said. “I’m just trying to find a place, and Detroit would be the perfect place for me to be able to start my young career and actually be here and actually learn things as part of this system and organization.”
Bullock came to the Pistons in a July 9th deal with Phoenix that also brought Marcus Morris and Danny Granger. He didn’t earn much playing time in his first two NBA seasons with the Clippers and Suns, but has impressed Detroit’s coaches with a strong preseason performance. Bullock is averaging 12.3 points per game and has shot 8-of-16 from three-point range, along with providing a strong defensive presence on the wing.
There’s more this morning from the Central Division:
- Jared Cunningham is making a strong push for a Cavaliers roster spot, according to Gary Washburn of The Boston Globe. He has been Cleveland’s leading scorer during the preseason, averaging 13.6 points per game. Cunningham has bounced around the league since being drafted in the first round in 2012, spending time with the Mavericks, Hawks, Kings and Clippers. Washburn notes that the 24-year-old would give the Cavs an athletic presence in the backcourt.
- Kevin Love is expected to make his preseason debut today, but that only offers a little relief for the Cavaliers‘ injury woes, writes Jason Lloyd of The Akron Beacon Journal. Love will return to the court for the first time since having surgery to fix a dislocated left shoulder. Five Cleveland rotation players have undergone surgical procedures in the past 10 months.
- The Bucks are being cautious with Jabari Parker as he comes back from a torn ACL that ended his rookie season after 25 games, according to Dave McMenamin of ESPN.com. “If you were able to watch practice, I’m sure you guys would probably question why he’s not playing,” said coach Jason Kidd. “Because he’s done everything. He looks great. But again, he hasn’t been cleared by the doctors.”
Central Notes: Jennings, Monroe, Bulls, Williams
The Pistons hope to have Brandon Jennings back by Christmas, according to Vincent Ellis of The Detroit Free Press. The point guard hasn’t played since rupturing his left Achilles in January, but coach/executive Stan Van Gundy said he is “doing about everything” in practice, which includes step-back jumpers, running hard forward and backward and making moves before shooting. However, Jennings hasn’t been in a competitive situation or done any defensive drills. “They’ve given us sort of Christmastime, sort of tentative, very general, though, before or after so I think there’s a reasonable chance he could play in a game before the first of the year,” Van Gundy said.
There’s more from the Central Division:
- Several former Pistons teammates who also played for Milwaukee helped convince Greg Monroe to sign with the Bucks this summer, writes Michael Lee of Yahoo Sports. Assisting Monroe in making his decision were Jennings, Caron Butler, Brandon Knight and Khris Middleton, whom Monroe had Thanksgiving dinner with last year. Middleton joked that he called or texted Monroe “every five minutes” to recruit him for Milwaukee.
- If the Bulls decide to go with a full roster of 15 players, Cristiano Felicio is a good bet to grab the final spot over Jordan Crawford, speculates K.C. Johnson of The Chicago Tribune. The Brazilian center played on Chicago’s summer league team and is in camp on a non-guaranteed contract. Johnson believes he would be good insurance with Joakim Noah and maybe Pau Gasol becoming unrestricted free agents next summer.
- The offseason addition of Mo Williams, combined with J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert, gives the Cavaliers three of the toughest players in the NBA, according to Chris Haynes of The Northeast Ohio Media Group. “Nobody is going to punk me,” Williams said. “Nobody’s going to punk anybody who I stand with, so that’s just a motto that I have and I feel like my teammates should have that same motto.”