The Clippers have seen their bench production nosedive during the 2020/21 season thus far, according to Mirjam Swanson of The Orange County Register. Los Angeles is averaging a league-low -5.3 plus-minus through its first 10 games, according to Swanson. This is a marked drop-off from years past, as former Clipper Montrezl Harrell was the Sixth Man of the Year for the 2019/20 season and longtime Clipper Lou Williams won that honor in ’18/19.
“We are going to figure that out,” Clippers head coach Tyronn Lue said of the Clippers’ bench’s struggles. “It is a good problem to have, especially when you can get Marcus (Morris) back, who has been a starter and now is coming off the bench. You have that kind of talent coming off the bench, it adds a different dynamic to your team.”
There’s more out of California:
- Lakers reserve shooting guard Talen Horton-Tucker, a restricted free agent in 2021, is expected to draw interest from several squads during the offseason, including possibly the Knicks, Cavaliers, and Mavericks, according to Sean Deveney of Heavy.com. Los Angeles possesses Horton-Tucker’s Early Bird rights. While the Lakers could technically match any offer for Horton-Tucker, an opposing team’s GM speculates that a rival club could outbid make it hard on L.A. “Teams that have a lot of cap space and are looking to gamble on a young guy, why not put your money into him?” the GM wonders. “The upside is obvious.”
- A rotation tweak by the Clippers has freed up backup guard Lou Williams, Andrew Greif of the Los Angeles Times reports. L.A. coach Tyronn Lue and his staff have opted to surround Williams with four solid defenders on the floor.
- The 2020 trade deadline deal wherein the Warriors sent D’Angelo Russell to the Timberwolves in a package for swingman Andrew Wiggins and a top-three protected 2021 first-round draft pick continues to pay off for Golden State, according to Josh Schrock of NBC Sports Bay Area. After a rocky start, Wiggins has transformed into a solid two-way option on the wing to help fill the void left by injured Warriors star Klay Thompson. Through 10 games this season, Wiggins is currently averaging 17.5 PPG on 43.3% shooting from the floor and 38.5% shooting from deep, on 5.2 attempts. The 6-4 Warriors are the No. 4 seed in the West.
Wiggins is a 3 and D strong man every team is searching for
Wiggins 43% and 39%
DLo 43% and 40%
Wiggins 4th seed at the moment
DLo 15th seed
Well you know what Wiggins is one of those guys where he’ll get you 20 points and he looks great in certain stretches, but I think he’s also a guy that if you count on him or Draw something up for him and say, okay I need you to take your man off the dribble and get a bucket, he’s going to drop it off his foot or pass it off a Defender’s hand or result in a turnover or something like that.
Wiggins looks amazing at times and he’ll wow you with wonderful athletic moves and drill shots from 3 with ease, but as I said, if you count on him to be your number one Wing option to get you 25 a night, he’s going to disappoint you. I’ve seen it too much. He’s okay for the Warriors for now until someone better becomes available.
If you don’t think Draymond is not letting Wiggins hear the end of any small mistake he makes, in effect making him fear making the many mental mistakes that has plagued his game until this year, then you don’t understand the power of Draymond.
Draymond and Steph (and Klay) are about to turn Maple Jordan into Maybe Jordan.
Then add to this, the terrible Wolves potentially getting the #1 pick in the draft, that they will give to GSW?
GSW is on the precipice of being a monster.
Remember when people were on here last week saying they needed to rebuild or trade Steph? Wow, owned – LOL
isn’t a top three protected pick not conveyed if it’s the first pick?
You’re too smart for sports comment sections.
He’s calling Wiggins “Maybe Jordan” after a nice 10 game stretch.
Don’t confuse him with facts that contradict GSW putting 5 baby Jordans on the court.
thanks @cryptonerd, but I didn’t call him that after 10 game stretch, you deliberately re-interpreted what I wrote, which was “Draymond and Steph (and Klay) are about to turn Maple Jordan into Maybe Jordan.”
This is what is called “the straw man fallacy” and its a logical fallacy that is often used by those who have no real argument. It occurs when someone takes another persons argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion as if that was the point the person was originally making.
“Draymond and Steph (and Klay) are about to turn Maple Jordan into Maybe Jordan.” – the use of “are about to” gives me enough leeway for this to not actually happen and still be correct, if any of those guys get injured.
turns into
“He’s calling Wiggins “Maybe Jordan” after a nice 10 game stretch.”
See what you did there?
BS. The nice 10-game stretch IS what Marty is basing his evaluation on, because that is approximately what one has to look at for this season. This is what Wiggins and Curry have to work with, to give an impression. Does he imply he used a longer period?— no; that would require introspection or reflection.
Also BS is “are about to”— that language does not provide leeway; it’s a fact not a prediction as claimed.
Marty DID say in his usual boyish overexcitement that Wiggins was turning into “Maybe Jordan”. Whatever, same crae crae rubbish to me, but now he wants to wrongly apply advanced rhetorical concepts for his side when called on it. Marty is the one exaggerating; cryptonerd just observed his construction.
Leave straw man alone if you don’t get it.
Now for Who Knowses:
Maple Jordan?— this means something in some province?
cryptonerd- “You’re too smart for sports comment sections” Sarcasm?
If the TWolves pick is 1-3 next year, it’ll turn into an unprotected pick the following year without any restrictions making it pretty valuable.
They are going to have to start losing a whole lot more games to get that #1 pick
Wiggins contract is to much. But the player have a good start in the season because his defense is better than the last seasons. He must don’t the first option in a team. He is a wonderful second option. But sometimes are his shoot created terrible, To much long 2 pointer.
I don’t know about the “D” part of the story but according to his BR page he has 5 different nicknames. Surely, that leads the league.
link to basketball-reference.com
Yet another “great” move by the Timberpuppies who can neither draft or trade wisely, no matter who is calling the shots. This franchise is CURSED.
August 23, 2014: As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Cleveland Cavaliers with Anthony Bennett and a trade exception to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded a 2016 1st round draft pick (Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot was later selected) to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Kevin Love to the Cleveland Cavaliers; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Luc Mbah a Moute and Alexey Shved to the Philadelphia 76ers; and the Philadelphia 76ers traded Thaddeus Young to the Minnesota Timberwolves.
TPuppies get Wiggins (who they never figured out what to do with), Bennett (who was a 1st round BUST and was waived a year later), and Young (who was so unimpressive he was traded 6 months later for what was left of Kevin Garnett. All it cost was Kevin Love, Luc Mbah a Moute and Alexey Shved
February 6, 2020: Traded by the Minnesota Timberwolves with a 2021 1st round draft pick and a 2021 2nd round draft pick to the Golden State Warriors for Jacob Evans, D’Angelo Russell and Omari Spellman. (top-3 protected; becomes unprotected in 2022 if does not convey in 2021)
Both Spellman and Evans AND a second round draft choice were traded for Ed Davis (who probably would have been released by the Knicks anyway).
And who needs a high first round draft pick anyways?
They got Russell to keep KAT happy while also strangling the team’s cap flexibility.
LOSERS !!
I hear you brother but you have to keep the faith. My Warrior’s as you read from me many times I’m sure, have sucked big-time in the draft for many years. High draft picks in the single digits and teens complete busts. Frustration year after year after year.
I’d come home from work and watch the draft early or even take the day off because the Warriors had a top 5 pick and then go on to watch Antonio McDyess dominate The League and Joe Smith average 12 points. Frustration big time. Just keep the faith it’ll turn one day.
I have been a Warriors fan since 96 – that’s so many years of absolutely terrible team building and results. So many years in a row the season was toast in December.
No fan base deserves this run more than Warriors fans, who still sold out Roaracle even when the team stunk. Players regularly said it had the loudest and wildest atmosphere, it just was a shame the great fans were given a terrible product year in and out.
It was worth it though!
It doesn’t matter whose fan base deserves more crae crae… all you are talking about is expectations which I doubt you are old enough to remember.
@x%sure just said I’ve been a fan since 96 yet you still think Im 12, huh?
It’s fine, you hate GSW because you have been brainwashed to. It’s not your fault.
You’re correct Marty.., fanbase has always been there supporting the team and yes the last 5-6 years have been absolutely amazing. Top of the basketball world for a good stretch has made it all worth it.
If you’ve been a fan since 96 too bad you missed the Run TMC era. 91 and 92 93 or so. That was fantastic offensive basketball. Tim Hardaway was a no conscience absolute big Time Gunslinger who would hit big shots at the end of games all the time. I have to admit those were exciting times as well. They’d come in as the 8th seed and beat a team like Utah in the first round.
@Gary while I have watched old footage of RUNTMC and even have a shirt of those legends, at the end of the day were not in the same class as the Bulls and they never won anything or even made the WCF, same for the very short Baron Davis-era of 1.5 years where they were winning for the first time in forever.
But then Steph came and changed everything and for that, I will never not be his biggest fan (on here). Really stinks how NBA media got so petty and corrupt to the point where we aren’t even allowed to appreciate his legendary skills and performance, GSW fans stuck through like 40 years of mediocrity to get here and they stuck it out and are getting rewarded for it – the rest of the league doesn’t even deserve him tbh, only we deserve Steph Curry – the rest of the league won’t until they finally admit he’s as much the face of the league as Bron is.
I do remember Barry/Thurmond on TV, and lived in SJ for a bit with very successful sports… the Niners, both MLB teams in the WS, RunTMC which only needed Don Nelson to get a viable center… winning.
Cali. A south bypass was put in through the suburbs where the land for it was already bought and set aside. Legal U-turns. Accurate directions when I would ask, because a common method was developed between the different language-speakers. Anyway.
(GM) Vlade DIVAC…. I understand you
Wiggins is 6 years old BMW which is required to be fixed
Wolves sold him for $500
Warriors fixed the BMW and now it’s worth $50000
Russel was a big mistake by Meyers. Russel can only do 1 thing and that is score. He is terrible on defense. Luckily GSW found a place to trade him to. Wiggins is a good solid player but not the all star to run the team. That is why Wiggins fits the GSW he is a player that just needs to play his game not be the leader.
Who else from Brooklyn matched up in that deal though? Would you have rather lost KD for nothing and not gotten Wiggins and the top 3 protected pick?
Wiggins was the #1 overall pick, he has always had superstar potential, he just was on the worst single franchise in the league that has no idea how to create winning teams, culture or players. He isn’t a leader right now because he doesn’t have to be.
Age 27-28 Wiggins is going to be a dramatically different player if he keeps getting to play with Dray, Steph and eventually Klay, mark my words. That superstar-in-the-making is already showing flashes of brilliance and a remarkable toolset already.
I think we got lucky in not being stuck with Russel. If it meant no Russel I would rather have not wasted all the cap space on him. Russel was overpaid for a scorer only. Defense is what makes GSW better. He never fit on the team.
Wiggins has been looking really amazing lately, and I think next year he’ll even look better with Klay back. They aren’t asking too much from him while building his confidence but I also think it really helps that he has Dray/Steph out there to make sure he’s not the first or second option.
not that he was a great fit, and he has been somewhat similar to Wiggins for Minnesota, but Russell was at least valuable for GS while he was with them last year, and his box plus/minus was pretty good. Their defense, including him, was just awful. Wiggins hasnt been nearly as good for them as he was, so the trade seems kind of like a wash. Best asset for GS is probably the pick, at least for now
When you make a doodie, and it smells like a doodie…its hard to argue that it ain’t a doodie. You dig?
Exactly! You finally get why kyrie is a turd!
Still don’t understand why lakers extended kuzma when tht was coming up for a new deal and works well with lebron and ad unlike kuzma…..
I’m thinking that they did it perhaps before he hit the open market as a restricted free agent and someone overpay him? Rather keep him in house and not risk losing a key bench piece?
He signed a reasonable deal. Spurs gave Derrick White 70 million… Lakers have THTs bird rights so Kuzma has no impact on his new deal
Pretty sure they only have his early bird rights since he was signed to a 2 year deal. They actually are a little screwed because they cant offer him much till the next year and someone with cap room can.
Can still easily be moved but yea I hear the frustration, garbage first 12 games from him so far
I dont know where it makes sense to say anything about Wiggins as a 2 way player. He has been awful on both sides of the ball this year, and comparable to his worst season
@formerlyz… totally agree with you, so far he is playing the worst I have ever seen him play… can’t see why people are impressed, only difference team is winning, not thanks to him. But he is playing very bad compared to his time in MIN!!!
it could be that its just hidden by how awful kelly oubre has also been, which is so bad, it somehow makes him look good
Yep exactly he’s not the player that deserved to be drafted number 1. So Kerr the genius starts him but then shuffles him off to the second unit when Curry sits. It’s like me going against 12 year olds I think I can score a little bit LOL. Maybe even average 17.5 if you give me enough minutes and put the ball in my hands all the time LOL
The issue is on both sides of the ball. Not sure if its b/c he is playing more at the 4 than he has previously, but having 3 starters, playing significant minutes, play as poorly as Oubre, Wiseman, and Wiggins obviously hurts them. Damion Lee and Kent Bazemore have been really good this year. I’m curious to see how long they stick to this current rotation
Who could have imagined that Wiggins, freed from the garbage franchise we call the Timberwolves, would play better in Golden State?
That was the general belief, and do the Harrison Barnes role. Wiggins has certainly got more muscular but not statistically neither has stepped up. Barnes is off to a better start this season at about two-thirds of the cost.
Harrison Barnes and Andrew Wiggins are Polar Opposites on the basketball court.
Harrison Barnes does not have a creative bone in his body. Even when he was young he was basically a spot-up shooter. He couldn’t create for himself off the dribble very well and was just an average Defender.
Funny thing about Harrison Barnes is that his athleticism is off the charts. I think his measurables at the draft combine were some of the best numbers ever. He can jump through the roof yet on the court and on the wing and slashing his athleticism doesn’t seem to be there. Strange phenomenon. He’s a 6-8 rigid no slashing spot-up jump shooter.. who selfish and thinks for himself and wouldn’t take the slight pay cut to stay and rather took the money and went to Dallas.
It freed up the Warriors for Kevin Durant but still the Warriors also wanted Barnes to do what Klay Thompson and Draymond Green did and take 16 million dollars instead of 25 on the open market. Loyalty begets loyalty so don’t complain when Draymond gets 25 now and Klay gets 35 now. Family is family.
So Andrew Wiggins on the other hand is a player you put the ball in his hands. That is his strength even though it’s only a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10. He’s not a spot-up shooter he’s not a Defender… he’s and okay creator so you put them on the second unit and he’ll succeed a little bit.
He’ll pass Hill Drive he’ll kick he’ll hit at 3 and he can create from anywhere on the court, the corner or the top of the key Etc. As I said polar opposite of Harrison Barnes. Barnes can play power forward he’s strong he’s 6-8. Wiggins is a shooting guard Wing guy at 6- 6 and still skinny no matter how much he said he’s worked out in the offseason. Sorry for the book here.
??? Please more reality-based. Wiggins can’t score in the second unit. He is strong with Curry and Green on the court. He play good than 2 option. It’s a problem if Wiggins option number one.
And his defense is good in this Saison.
—At the time— The Russell/Wiggins trade was supported on the GSW side by the simularity with Barnes, and the GSW system would find him a similar role.
—Now— Barnes is still uncreative and stiff and but Wiggins isn’t skinny anymore. Neither is helpful while swallowing much salary.
Polar opposites is extreme!
This has so far been arguably Harrison Barnes best year. I actually somewhat disagree about Barnes’ skillset. GS used him (Klay, and Livingston as well) in post ups in half court situations, (which they for some reason went away from in a certain NBA finals) and he has also shown ability as a slasher in the past.
I have not seen Barnes at all this year so I stand corrected on that. Good point. How’s your ACL recovery by the way? Getting out on the court again? I’m in Florida let’s play ball. ( sorry if I’m mixing you up with the guy who is the fan in Charlotte. I even forget his username, and haven’t heard from you in so long.. only spot post here and there that it’s possible I’ve got you two mixed up.)
o ya thats mostly better. I actually injured my spine pretty badly early in the pandemic. I had surgery for something unrelated, a couple of months ago, and the anesthesia somehow took the pain away. I’ve been super careful since though, so I have to strengthen certain areas to try and avoid more injuries/reinjury. That was working for a while before this situation…Even still, I’d potentially consider getting on the court for a bit lol, assuming obviously pandemic wise, its all good.
Okay good stuff brother. You’re plugging through adversity but sounds like you are staying positive through it. Easier said that done and I applaud you for it. I just got done at LA Fitness running with a bunch of 18 to 22 year olds. Thank goodness the court is short LOL.
lol a few years ago i got burned running down the floor by a 55 year old marathon runner twice in 5 on 5. I felt like shane battier chasing down ray allen, chasing this guy around screens for a couple of games.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see the Lakers make a big trade for Victor Oladipo.
KCP, THT, Kuzma and a second round pick for Oladipo.
That move would also open up 2 roster spots, in which the Lakers full one and hold the second for a possibly buy out player.
1. Schroder. Caruso
2. Oladipo. Mathews
3. LeBron
4. AD. Harrell
5. Gasol. Morris
Crazy I just posted same for Lavine but I think its still short
I think the Pacers def do yours, not so sure on the Lakers- That extra Lavine year was huge in my thinking
I think Lakers fold this one but I do agree some consolidation and trading are some possibilities that didnt exactly exist 3 weeks ago for LAL mostly due to THT
Oladipo is a serious building block if they can resign him for post LeBron and he would suit ADs game and be a great backcourt fit with Schroder. For me I think it’s a good deal for both teams.
He Lakers are giving up THT on an expiring deal, Kuzma who is very streaky and is an impact player and KCP who’s just a slight bit better than an average SG. Oladipo would be the third star, he’s a great defender, he’s a clutch shooter, he can play on ball or off ball, doesn’t have a huge ego so would adjust to the locker room easier.
It wouldn’t be cheap to reign Schroder and Oladipo but I suppose Kuzma (who you’d be trading away signed a deal that would’ve been 12mil to the books for next year anyways).
So really if you can resign Oladipo and Schroder for 50 mil then you haven’t really added to what you would be if you kept Kuzma.
50 mil would be a good number for these two aswell, Schroder maybe 3years 63mil (21mil) and Oladipo 3years 27-28-29 (average 28mil)
Still trying to trade Kuzma for something. Still a no. He is flexible and is making treys, but his other stats are terrible… or just not good, since that extension hasn’t kicked in yet.
Kuzma is a 6th man off the bench. valuable but not a star and never will be a all star. So when somebody says they should trade him for a all star you got to laugh. He would get you a good journeyman player but not a allstar with no 1st rounders to trade with.
Kuzma is the least important part in the trade-
Kcp is the building block, Tht the upside star and Kuz basically salary filler whoes young
– I think with Chi theres a chance they could want to move in a different direction thats why Id target Lavine…Indy is pretty stable so they may wanna just stay put idk….good idea tho Russ
I know its great being 11 deep but not really viable to run a 11 man rotation …if you can consolidate I think you do if it makes sense
Well hiding THT didnt work for long
Lakers dont need to gamble at the break but THT’s play gives them an extra card to play if they wanted-
Lavine would be the perfect fit but I think
KCP Kuz THT + 2026 1st rder still falls short (Even tho Lakers fans will prolly disagree)
** They dont need to do anything (besides a buyout athletic C) but its nice to have options that didnt exactly exist 3 weeks ago
Lu Dort was in a similar position as Talen Tucker, getting two-year second-round contracts after the 2019 draft. But Presti got Dort to sign a low-expense four-year contract while the season was suspended, and now there will likely be a large difference in salary next season between the two with THT an UFA.
Dort is hitting 47% on a high volume of treys, with a plus-12 on/off. His defensive stats are not great probably because he mostly plays the 3 undersized… he got his name guarding PG Harden.
Loved Dort in the playoffs last year against Houston.
Dort was on a 2 way contract, which is convertible. He was probably on pace to make about 100K-150K for the year, without a conversion. Tucker’s regular NBA contract couldn’t be redone without first waiving him. Presti did use his leverage well, but the situations were different.
THT is a RFA
That was noted in the OP. But similar players in similar draft slots with similar success will get very different salaries. Presti did well while the Lakers may not be able to keep Tucker.
If Wiggins is a solid 2 way option, then it’s happened over the last 10 games. Wiggins is a career 33% three pt shooter, and shot that with GSW last year. He’s never had good defensive numbers, including with GSW last year. He’s always been talented and useful, and great in stretches. Still, he’s had (and I believe still has) significant negative value due to his contract.
I never realized his defense was so below average till I watched him play. I figured his athleticism + Draymond barking would help but apparently not.
We’ll see. It might be. This year, the team is good and Green is on the floor with him. Some guys need incentive and team culture to consistently defend. There have been guys that have improved defensively mid-career. He appears to have the physical traits. On the other hand, 3 pt shooting rarely gets substantially better after 6 years. Though, I’m sure it happens. I’m just not going to accept either after 10 games, when the guy has a pretty consistent 6 year history to the contrary.
Yes that shot’s too flat for my taste. It’s like.. take a look at your back court partner with the high arc and the wonderful follow-through and the hand in the top shelf cookie jar. Think you might be able to take a clue from that? But no, his is a line drive top of the key so called jump shot that has to be perfect to go in.