Now that Knicks center Nerlens Noel has joined starter Mitchell Robinson on the sidelines due to a knee injury, New York is struggling with some serious depth problems at the five spot, per Marc Berman of the New York Post.
Robinson is dealing with a hip flexor injury and fatigue. In addition to knee and hamstring soreness, Noel is also battling a sore back. Deep-bench reserves Taj Gibson and rookie Jericho Sims have been pressed into service much more than had been expected prior to the 2021/22 season. Head coach Tom Thibodeau has also experimented with small-ball lineups featuring nominal power forward Obi Toppin at center.
There’s more out of the Big Apple:
- Starting Knicks point guard Kemba Walker is taking a cautious approach to his health this season, writes Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News. This extends to establishing his own rest day schedule and paying attention to his body. The 31-year-old, who has struggled with knee issues for years, sat out Sunday’s game, then helped the Knicks defeat Philadelphia 103-96 on Monday. “It’s a long year,” Walker said. “I’m not gonna play every game, so I just thought that was probably when I should sit out. And it worked out.”
- Second-year Knicks power forward Obi Toppin appears to be outplaying his current minutes, writes Fred Katz of The Athletic in a new mailbag. Toppin has been limited to just 14.3 MPG this season, despite looking intriguing in small-ball frontcourt lineups next to starting power forward Julius Randle. Katz opines that Thibodeau does not appear ready to increase Toppin’s minutes load.
- Elsewhere in Katz’s mailbag, he predicts that the Knicks as currently comprised should be good for a top-eight finish in the Eastern Conference, with the Celtics and Bulls among the threats to push them down into play-in territory (i.e. the 7-10 seeds).
Toppin’s minutes aren’t all (or even mostly) about how well he’s playing. The backup minutes behind Randle are finite. A Toppin/Randle 4-5 combo (or one of them as a small ball 5) is the other place to get him minutes, but that materially changes the Knicks’ defense (eliminating the rim protector) in a way that puts more pressure on the perimeter defense, which is already struggling. As much as the quality of his play, better perimeter defense from his teammates would help Toppin get more minutes. It also wouldn’t hurt if he could shoot the 3 better. It’s really not a small ball lineup if you’re replacing a rim protector with a PF that doesn’t shoot the 3 well enough to space the floor. His college numbers were misleading, but he has enough of a distance shot to continue to improve.
Toppin should get more time because Randle should be logging fewer minutes. We all saw how tired Randle was and how poorly he played in the playoffs last year, and it’s because he led the league in minutes per game with over 37. He’s got 36 a game this year and needs to come back down to 30-32. This could happen if Toppin got another 5 minutes a game. Far too many times when the game is out of hand and Randle is still on the court.
Let Toppin play, let him develop.
LOL. You should call Thibs and explain these things to him, so he can coach the team correctly.
Where did you come up with 30-32? What elite starter Randle’s age doesn’t average at least 35? Historically, 35 is VERY light. Who told you his minutes were an issue, let alone that they were THE reason he played poorly in the playoffs? I guess we should conclude that those minutes were THE reason he had a great season to begin with; right?
BTW, meaningless minutes (in garbage time) play ZERO role in player development. If he needs exercise (which is all that would provide), there are simpler ways to get it. It’s an insult to a real BB player to get him “play” minutes. He’s here to help us win games, and his development is about him learning how his skills can help us win games. If he’s not getting enough serious on court time, then he should play in G-league games btw home games.
Do you have any idea what you’re talking about? 30-32 minutes was what Randle got throughout his career before last year. God forbid you take two seconds to look at his career stats instead of vomiting out garbage to try to look smart. He was completely gassed in the playoffs last year and played terribly. He literally led the league in minutes per game last year and it showed.
‘Historically, 35 is VERY light’? Who cares? Basketball is played in the present. The league’s MVP from last year, Jokic, is averaging 32 minutes a game. Durant and Harden, 34 minutes apiece. Curry hasn’t had a season over 34 minutes in seven years. Luka, 34 minutes a game. And on and on.
You’d think someone who acts as authoritarian as you would have a clue, but you’d be wrong. Maybe watch a game or two this decade and you’ll learn something.
People who talk about minutes like he does have never played basketball or even competed at a high level.
I’m not even sure he’s ever exercised very hard since fatigue seems to be beyond his comprehension.
Thibs does tend to play his guys more mins. He has more trust. But I agree his mins should come down 32-34 in season is fine. Plus Toppin looks great. But I disagree last yrs playoffs he was gassed. Hawks singled him out. And he didn’t adjust, neither did Thibs. He still had better stats than any big in that series. So go figure. Personally I agree Thibs should manage mins better cause we got the depth. But Thibs is stubborn when it comes to trusting players. Randle is still our best player.
Don’t laugh at people when you post such ignorant tripe. It makes you sound like a child.
Do you think that post had ANY points?
@DXC – historically speaking, have you seen the trends of minutes for starters from previous teams Thibs has coached? How far has he made it in the playoffs? Players are wiped.
I agree with @RCT, give Toppin the minutes he needs (and deserves). Preserve Randle for the playoffs. Get the kids some minutes so they can contribute and develop. The rotation needs to expand just a bit more minutes wise. Thibs has improved in that area, but just needs to distribute those minutes a bit more.
Yes. Thibs is “known” for playing his best players more minutes. But you have to look at each case; particularly when the disparity between his best players and others of similar age and role is so marginal (35 min vs 37 min, maybe ?). The idea it’s those incremental minutes over the season causes poor playoff performance is a theory, not a fact. You ascribe to it. I have no problem with that, many do, I just don’t. I’d want to see the same fatigue take over late in the regular season. What star player (on a one star team) doesn’t look gassed in a losing playoffs series. Randle was frustrated and worn out, by losing to the same guys 4 times in a less than two weeks and having everything thrown at him. I’ve seen all of Thibs’ playoff series losses, and I don’t think he had the better team (or close) in any of them. That’s opinion too, but his regular season coaching doesn’t raise my playoff expectations as much as it does with others. The playoffs are about talent, of players. The team with the most talented players wins 95% of the time.
FWIW, since I think its more relevant to Toppin than whether Randle’s overall minutes are 35 or 37, I would play Toppin and Randle together more for a few weeks (largely because I’ve given up, at least for now, that our defense can be fixed in the short term). But Thibs isn’t listening to me either. Based on what he’s said, Toppin’s path to more minutes is about the general state of our perimeter defense, and, while he didn’t directly say it, I suspect his 3 pt shooting.
With Mitch and Noel out who do you think is a rim protector?
The idea that a we need a rim protector and that we can simply ignore the tradeoffs involved is just wrong as well.
@emac22
I laugh when I find something funny. If that troubles you, then you have your remedies (mute button). Otherwise, just accept that I really couldn’t care less what you think of my posts, except for my presumption that if you don’t like it, it’s probably on point. Your time would be better spent formulating a few posts of your own that provide something worth reading. Or work on your reading comprehension. Both need work.
On the latter (and PAY ATTENTION this time, because you may learn something): I never said that we NEED a rim protector like there’s a single right way to play. I said that our base defense (which if you weren’t so arrogant, I’d explain to you) requires a rim protector and our HC, who knows a thing or two about defense, only varies from the base defense when HE FEELS it’s worth the tradeoff, and I set forth the things that might result in him being more comfortable varying from it. FYI, Gibson is our 3rd string rim protector. The point is that two big spots (4&5) are not fungible in the base system. If you paid any attention to box scores over this season and last, you’d see that that almost always Robinson, Noel and Gibson (or Pelle when he was here) never play together and see (collectively) close to 48 minutes. What does that tell you? Of course fans can certainly take exception with Thibs’ views on this or anything else, but his views are still controlling who gets time and in what roles. I thought, and still think, that a discussion of Toppin’s playing time starts with a discussion of his paths to it within the current systems we actually play, not with how misguided the HC to have the systems he does, as it’s at best only marginally relevant to it.
Sims is a big that can give us mins. It’s only for awhile. Knicks have let up their pressure on D. They are not as committed as last yr. It’s not just new players. Seems like overconfidence to me. Trouble with playing in NY. When things go well. You start to let up and read the headlines.
Knicks strength this year is their depth. It will have to show early now. I do agree that Toppin should play more. He and Randle can work for atleast 5-10 mins. They can play with Taj too. Then it’s like 3 bigs interchangeable on D. Please
Knicks get three happy imo. It’s one thing taking good look threes. But looking to take one shouldn’t be a priority. You don’t see any posting on blocks. Toppin and Randle should be doing it. Seems RJ does it the most. Their D is an issue.
More important to me is getting Kemba comfortable. And running the offense. There’s too much Randle at point. Not enough Kemba.
This team needs to come to play as a team to win. Every game. And let their depth kick in and show its results. I agree with managing Kembas mins. But I’d like to see McBride get some PT at point.
It’s still early so I’m counting on Thibs to get thru to these guys. Like I’ve been saying since last year. In Thibs we Trust …..
With Fournier and Walker we knew the defense would drop.
Surprise, surprise.
Watching Thibs beat Robinson to a pulp while working him back into shape during games & while handcuffing Obi to the bench regardless of how he or anyone else plays is not only annoying but this is exactly what you get.
Watching an entire corporation run with so much focus on todays game that nothing past today is EVER given any weight at all is what I expect from a child’s lemonade stand.
I admit I overweight the future at the expense of today but I don’t completely lose sight of the fact that today exists.
Dude it’s basketball. Any starter should have no problem going 30 plus mins. Thibs is going 11 deep. They e had overtime games, still early. Mitch not even playing 30 mins yet. I do agree that Thibs has to trust Obi1 more. It will pay off in playoffs. Knicks strength this year is their depth. It’s showing and will only get better. We’ve had some bad loses, winnable games. That’s when Thibs plays his guys. Still early bro calm down.
link to basketball-reference.com