The Nets have leverage in trade negotiations and intend to use it, which could drag out the process into training camp, Brian Lewis of the New York Post writes.
Kyrie Irving has opted in to the last year of his deal and Kevin Durant‘s four-year extension is just getting underway. So, they can take their time finding the right trade package. It’s also hard to imagine Durant holding out or refusing to play, as Ben Simmons did in Philadelphia, if the Nets don’t deal him.
We have more on the New York teams:
- In the same piece, Lewis quotes a league source as saying the Nets are opposed to the idea of trading Joe Harris. Holding onto Harris could indicate a retooling on the fly, while trading the 3-point specialist would signal a major rebuild. “I know the Nets absolutely do not want to trade Joe under any scenario,” the source told Lewis. “But there are just thousands of different ways this can play out.”
- Quentin Grimes, who is on the Knicks’ summer league squad, could be in the mix for a starting job when the regular season begins, according to Steve Popper of Newsday. The 2021 first-round pick showed some promise last season with his defense and 3-point shooting. A bout with COVID-19 and a dislocated patella marred his rookie season. Grimes could get a shot to start if the Knicks deal Evan Fournier.
- The free agent additions of Jalen Brunson and Isaiah Hartenstein leave Immanuel Quickley and Obi Toppin as likely second-unit performers, Zach Braziller of the New York Post notes. The latter duo finished last season on a high note with expanded roles but they project as reserves next season.
Things changes as time changes
People changes, life changes
Three months later Lakers are unlikely to acquire Irving
Trade now
It’s possible that Nash and coaching teams don’t want Westbrook because they are not capable to fix Westbrook.
Coach Ham loves Westbrook so much and is able to fix him. How about Steve Nash?
Nobody is interested in Westbrook. Any team that trades for Westbrook will waive him immediately. Westbrook is no longer a starter in the NBA. Gonna be tough to find a contender to take him off the bench. Even tougher to find a non-contender to take him. If he is a Laker, he will be a $47 million 2nd unit guy.
It’s equally possible that Coach Ham is “not capable to fix Westbrook”.
I can’t believe the lakers would not give up a first to switch Wall and Westbrook. I think Wall will help the Clippers a great deal! Nobody should beat The Clippers if healthy.
Thats a veeery big IF – with Kawhi, PG and Wall.
Sure on Wall still being an effective contributor if he’s still got juice in the tank, but there’s a big difference between trading a $41MM Russell Westbrook + draft pick(s) for a $47MM John Wall … versus the Clippers simply got John Wall after a buyout and only had to commit $13M over two years – very fortuitous for them! I can understand the Lakers being hesitant to part with draft capital for salary dump purposes. If they are able to swap Westbrook and picks for Irving, they probably view that as a worthwhile gamble at the end of the day.
Part with draft capital its ok if you are acquiring a player that you know will be capable of contribute. Wall for a 1st is a gamble, trading some 1st with RW for Irving is absolutely better for the Lakers.
So the game of leverage begins – first report said Nets want to include Harris rather than Seth Curry, Lakers wanted Curry. Now, “league sources” say Nets value Harris and want to keep him)
The Simmons acquisition complicated Joe Harris’ spot on the team. Right now, the current Nets mix projects as Irving, Curry, Durant, Simmons and Claxton starting with Harris coming off the bench … BUT since the Nets are actively trying to trade away Durant and Irving, who knows what they are going to get for a return and how that will shake up their roster, if Royce O’Neal then gets inserted into the starting lineup, if Joe Harris is fully healthy or if he will need load management next season, etc. A ton of question marks with their roster.
Curry has significantly more value than Harris, and I can’t see why on earth Brooklyn would be motivated to move him when they are already going to be getting the short end of the stick on a Kyrie Irving deal, if they work something out with the Lakers. The Lakers don’t have any positive assets to send back the other way (they’re obviously not going to part with Bron or AD) other than future draft picks.
If Harris is healthy, he would likely start over (also recovering from ankle surgery) Curry, due to his height advantage.
The Nets should certainly realize that delaying the inevitable into training camp won’t be helpful.
Playing harte Stein in front of a 24yo lottery pick is just crazy. Eventually topping will be offloaded like knox did
I thought that too when I read it, didn’t think Hartenstein was going to start when they initially signed him
Hartenstein and Toppin play different positions. Hartenstein is Robinson’s backup. Toppin is Randle’s backup. The referenced article makes no sense. Acquiring Hartenstein means nothing in relation to Toppin.
From the article:
“As long as Julius Randle is around, it seems that Toppin’s ceiling with the Knicks will be limited and the addition of the rim-protecting, ball-moving Hartenstein blocks the chance to see more of Toppin and Randle playing together.”
Which makes no sense. Hartenstein is on the same unit with Toppin. If they want to see Toppin and Randle playing together, they’ll bench Fournier, move RJ to SG, and put in Toppin at SF with Randle at PF and Mitch at C. If they wanted to shift Randle to C and put in Toppin at PF, Robinson is blocking that, not Hartenstein.
Knick Genius …….
I’m still trying to figure out exactly what it is the Knicks are doing. If they were going to sign Hartenstein why re sign Robinson ? Or is there more drama coming? I’m officially confused.
I thought including Harris was the holdup, as in the Lakers dont want him bc of his injury and salary.
I thought the same. Pretty sure I read it here on another “New York rumors” article
Nets should move Kyrie ASAP. That will help clarify the KD situation.
Exactly. There’s not a practical way to bundle them together. Thus, first priority is a Kyrie trade … the Nets already know who their suitors are — whether that’s 1, 2 or 3 teams that they’re working with — and what the potential return on that deal is. There’s no benefit to piddling around on him and it’s not going to move the needle on what they get offered. With Durant … if really half the league is inquiring on him, sit back and wait for that whale of an offer.
Nah, they got the Lakers in their back pockets…..They’ll know the interest from other parties and what/what not the Lakers will give
Makes sense to wait till the KD happens to see what kinda filler salary comes back…It could be sent over instead of Curry Joe Harris etc to better help the Nets. Lakers are in no position to get greedy here whatsoever on the secondary parts
The Lakers need this more than the Nets, they won’t stray and most likely will offer the best package in the end butb there’s no need to do it before the KD trade…gives other teams more time to throw a bid as well if they even exist
Imo both trades will happen the same day, maybe an hr or 2 apart so when ya see the first one don’t stray far from your internet device
Hypothetical Trades:
BOS gets: Durant
BK gets: Brown & G. Williams + all the possible picks
DAL gets: Kyrie
BK gets: Hardaway, Bertans, Powell + (1) future first (say, top 10 protected)
This leaves BK with an 8 man rotation of
Simmons
Curry
Brown
G. Williams
Powell
Bench: Claxton, Hardaway, Bertans
If Brooklyn wants to be competitive and move off of Kyrie as well as KD then they’re going to need to get at least one All Star caliber guy who can create his own shot. Assuming Simmons can come back as a facsimile of his former self then that team is probably play-in level, which fits the bill.
Celtics are odds on favorites to win a ring; maybe they feel they are already, but do you pass on a two to three year window with Kevin Durant? Hard to argue that Durant isn’t an upgrade over Brown…
Maybe not ideal for Dallas, but if Brunson is walking for nothing they need *someone* in there.
Don’t “dislike” the Dallas deal, but is there a team out there that would give up a 1st for Kyrie?
Not sure…
Lot of sense!!
I essentially suggested the same trade in a different comment thread a day or two ago, regarding Brooklyn and Dallas. Dallas would not be willing to part with a future 1st for Kyrie, because he is on the last year of his contract. They can salary match with the Nets out of those secondary pieces. Hardaway, Bertans and Powell are all productive complementary players, but aren’t key ingredients to the Mavs. If I’m the Nets, I like that deal a whole lot more than taking on Westbrook, unless LA is offering them one or two unprotected first round picks, which I doubt they are.
As a Mavs fan, would you like to see the Kyrie trade happen?
On the fence, the question is… which Kyrie shows up.
The risk is just that… giving up pieces that didn’t help or wasn’t there during the playoffs make you think that adding Kyrie replaces(an improvement) Brunson. IF he plays the way we all know he can.
Adding a scoring small ball 5 is the piece Dallas needed against GS, IMO. Which is what I think is the Nico/ Cuban plan. I also think we can all agree Coach Kidd did a masterful job last season- especially in the playoffs.
The Kyrie (the version they want along with Wood) addition could make Dallas a real threat to GS, and taking the ship.
All of this is a mute point if GS gets KD. => repeat!
Yeah I think if Brooklyn is trying to stay competitive Dallas is a realistic option. Also, assuming bad blood between Marks and Kyrie, there may be some satisfaction in just not sending him to LA.
Maybe they can pull it off with no picks going back, or even with a 1st with like top 20-ish protections.
I mean, you never know with Kyrie, but if he’s trying to secure one last max contract he certainly would have some incentive to bring his A game next year. Put that next to Luka and that’s a really tough playoff out, IMO.
No way Brk wants Bertans and THJr
I can see Cuban taking the plunge but Nets won’t want that package – Only thing I can see is Dins and Powell and maybe a 2nd working for KL (might not even need the 2nd too but def Dins ) At that point I just think you pass if Dal
Riley would need a 3rd maybe 4th team and to shift around Lowry and Robinson . I actually see this plausible as even if the KL experiment fails they will clear 24 cap to have a max instead of Lowry Robinson etc . I think Pat knows this Mia team has taken a small step back and would make a nice wager (draft comp) to compete 23 as long as it doesn’t hurt 24 and beyond (in this case it actually helps clearing cap ) Finding partners for Lowry/Robinson might be difficult tho at this point under the gun
Since KD is never happy and often injured, the risk to Boston in this trade is obvious.
Irving is the type of star player that Doncic needs.
Mavericks would be a serious threat if they can trade for Irving.
BKN would never take on the contracts of both THJ and Bertans (which go 2 more seasons each), probably not either one. They doubt they take on any bad deals to accommodate KI. KI is an expiring deal, so if they can’t get positive value plus expiring deals, I’m guessing he stays (even if sent home if a problem).
Then Brooklyn gets nothing. Also, I’m thinking- who wants Kyrie and his baggage? And the 36 mil paycheck.
Nothing ain’t great, but it’s fine really. BKN would have been fine if KI the declined the option and they got nothing. What isn’t fine is taking on bad contracts beyond this year. Better to hold or, if available, take Westbrick and a remote 1st.
You’re correct, and a Russ acquisition or nothing is better then taking back bad contracts. IMO, THJ is not a bad contract and Bertram’s is “ok” next season – the point is to improve the team, right. To say the Nets would just fine if he declined and walked is saying that the Nets get better or is a better team w/o Kyrie. Not sure that’s right.
I’m not saying that at all. KI is a superstar on the court. BKN is much better with him even at his salary. But, IMO, nothing is much better than THJ and Bertans. There are an infinite number of ways to improve the team using their payroll allocation, and 28 other teams to get guys from. At the end of the day it comes down to are those valuable contracts or not. If they are, then there won’t be a problem sending them to a 3rd or 4th team and using the matching number to acquire KI. Nets are entitled to something for their troubles, but it wouldn’t be a lot. What they gain is flexibility to truly improve the team.
I understand that side too and don’t disagree. Nice talking to ya.
Hoops Rumors – When you gonna put this guy (DXC) on payroll? !
Not sure there’s a great case that Hardaway’s contract is a net negative value (unless we’re assuming he’s just going to be significantly worse post-injury).
Of note is that the contract is descending value – he’s owed 19M, 17M, 16M.
His last full season for Dallas: 39% on 3s on 7.9 attempts per game, 4.3 WS, +2,0 OBPM (which ranked better than Lowry, Booker, and former teammate Jalen Brunson that year). Of course he’s a net negative on defense, but at worst he’s basically Jordan Clarkson with more size.
So assuming the market continues to go up – that contract is a probably a net positive value.
Similarly with Bertans. He had a terrible start to last season and people have somehow extrapolated that cold streak to his entire career.
But he’s a 40% career 3 point shooter scheduled to make 16m annually – If Jalen Bruson is a 25M+ player annually (a solid starter who probably never makes an All Star team), I’m not sure how you argue THJ and Bertans are net negatives at 8-10M less per year when both possess arguably the most valuable non-star asset in a player: 40% 3 point shooting on volume.
Also, in this hypothetical trade, Brooklyn gets a lightly protected first for their troubles.
Net-net, I’d probably still rather get LAL’s 27 and 29 firsts, but if the goal is to actually field a roster next year I think my make believe Dallas deal is actually more favorable to Brooklyn than Dallas, given the purely stochastic nature of Kyrie.
I watched both THJ and Alec Burks play multiple seasons with the Knicks, and Burks is the better player. Burks defends, whereas THJ doesn’t. Burks is a better 3 pt shooter and facilitator. Burks makes 10 mm (expiring, but with a team option), whereas THJ makes 17 mm (two more year guaranteed). It cost us a 2nd to unload Burks. BTW, over the past 2 seasons, Burks has also been better from 3 than Bertans (who’s never played the starter minutes that Burks can handle). Yet, we had to give a pick (albeit a 2nd) to send Burks (and Noel) to DET. BTW, I think it’s Noel that has the most valuable non-star asset in a player – he blocks shots.
So, as I said, it’s easy if you’re right. Send THJ and Bertans to DET. Instead, I’ll take Burks, Noel and any other expiring deal DET wants for salary filler (even Kemba if he hasn’t been bought out yet). DAL gets KI. BKN gets the lightly protected 1st you offered up. If you’re right about THJ and Bertans, DET will jump at the chance to get them – having been paid to take Burks and Noel, they can now cash them in for two valuable contracts. Of course, that’s if you’re right. Representing BKN in this thread, I hope you are right. I’d love the 3 Knicks plus the 1st, and be rid of the entire circus next year.
We should note that Burks 3P% is on significantly lower volume than Hardaway or Bertans, but duly noted.
We both watched THJ’s meh years in NY … however I also watched THJ, over the course of a series, act as the second best player on a Dallas team that went 7 games against an LAC team with peak Kawhi and PG last playoffs.
Now second best on a team with a transcendent Luka … that might not mean that much. But it did get Brunson 100M this summer.
Of course value is subjective and return is dictated by who’s on the other end of the phone and what time of day it is – I’d surmise Burks might have had more value if he wasn’t attached to Nerlens (I’m less bullish on blocked shots than you are) and if NY didn’t need to move the $$ ASAP to a limited pool of cap space. But I’ll be the first to say I very well could be wrong
Signing Kyrie fits Cuban’s MO.
If Dallas doesn’t replace Brunson- then they will be in the playin. IMO.
Could of drafted Agbaji. He can start at SG right away. Fournier is not the issue or a problem. Randle is. He’s gotta get moved. I thought Dallas, his home. Could work, but now they have Wood. So it doesn’t look as enticing. Randle has to go.
I have a feeling if they could of unloaded him, they would of in the first cap dump to get Brunson. Nobody else wants his attitude. He doesn’t want to play unless he’s the headliner.