The Warriors made a new contract offer to restricted free agent Jonathan Kuminga last week, hoping to end the standoff that has prevented them from completing other offseason moves, sources tell Anthony Slater and Shams Charania of ESPN.
Golden State’s latest proposal is a three-year, $75.2MM deal with a team option in the third season, according to the authors’ sources. It includes $48.3MM in guaranteed money over the first two years, which Slater and Charania point out is nearly equal to the annual salary that restricted free agent Josh Giddey received last week in his new contract with Chicago. They add that the major difference is that Giddey received four guaranteed years with no options on either side, while Kuminga would most likely be a trade asset under his next contract rather than part of the team’s long-term future.
The offer is an increase from the two-year, $45MM contract that was presented to Kuminga and his representatives earlier this summer. That deal also included a team option on the final season and a demand that Kuminga waive his inherent no-trade clause.
The authors describe the Warriors’ insistence on those provisions, even in the new proposal, as a “major part” of the prolonged standoff. Their sources say Golden State’s only offer without a team option was for $54MM over three years, which brings the annual salary down to $18MM.
Kuminga has been requesting a player option to give him more control over his future, sources tell Slater and Charania. He and agent Aaron Turner have been willing to accept a yearly salary in the $20MM range as a tradeoff, but they believe agreeing to a team option should bring Kuminga’s salary up to about $30MM per year. The Warriors consider a player option to be a “nonstarter,” according to the authors.
The latest proposal from Kuminga and his agent is described as a “souped-up version” of Golden State’s qualifying offer, which is also still on the table. Kuminga would receive more money than the $8MM QO that was tendered in late June, but it would be a one-year deal that makes him an unrestricted free agent next summer and allows the Warriors to shop him as an expiring contract heading into the trade deadline. It also creates the possibility that Kuminga could spend another full season with the team and start negotiations fresh next offseason.
General manager Mike Dunleavy Jr. turned down that idea, the authors state, as owner Joe Lacob is reportedly unwilling to accept any deal that puts the Warriors at risk of losing Kuminga next summer while getting nothing in return.
Lacob has been a strong believer in Kuminga ever since he advocated drafting him ahead of Franz Wagner in 2021, according to the authors. Sources tell them that Lacob refused to part with Kuminga in a proposed trade with Chicago for Alex Caruso two years ago, and he remained a vocal supporter even when the forward was removed from Steve Kerr‘s rotation last season. But sources tell the authors that Lacob has never intervened with Kerr on Kuminga’s behalf and has allowed the coach to make his own decisions about who gets on the court.
Kerr has indicated that Kuminga would see ample playing time this season if he opts to re-sign, according to Slater and Charania’s sources. However, Kuminga’s camp has pointed to comments that Kerr made during the playoffs — stating that Kuminga isn’t a natural fit alongside Stephen Curry, Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler — and they suggest that staying with Golden State might not be the best move for Kuminga’s career.
Before the Warriors shut down the idea of a sign-and-trade, they received offers from the Suns (who intended to pay Kuminga about $80-88MM over four years) and Kings (three years at $63-66MM), who were both willing to give him a player option and make him their starting power forward.
However, the Warriors weren’t satisfied with the return in the proposed deals, which reportedly would have brought Royce O’Neale and second-round draft compensation from Phoenix or Malik Monk and a protected first-rounder from Sacramento.
With training camp starting in two weeks, the authors state that Kuminga’s best hope is for Lacob to intervene, either to give him the financial compensation that he wants or ease his pathway to another team. The Warriors have several moves on hold that can’t be completed until the Kuminga situation is resolved, so a final decision will have to be made soon.
Well, finally some progress. Now the question is whether Kuminga is dumb enough to still sign the QO, or understands this extra year is in his best interest because it will help him get traded.
So Kuminga was right all along. Most of long time fans here were wrong all along. The whole world knew Warriors were going to blink!! What a stupid game warriors were playing the whole summer. Just like that $45m to $75m…. Now, QO is out of question, but the real negotiation has just started! Personally it’s either 4 yr for $100m or somehow he will be traded in the next 2 weeks .Warrios have been hoping that other teams will blink and offer better assets.
Seems to me the whole thing is Kuminga and his agent both know Kuminga is basically trade bait. So he wants control over where he gets traded to. The Warriors don’t want to give it to him. The whole problem is who gets the options, Team or Player? Until they figure that out the point is moot.
> Most of long time fans here were wrong all along.
“Most”, but not all :–) Some listen to what Lacob and Dunleavey have been saying.
As for “he will be traded in the next 2 weeks”, I disagree strongly. The Warriors have never wanted to trade him this summer. That’s been reported in several places. They allowed Kuminga to explore the “sign-and-trade” on his own so that he’d find out for himself that there is no market for free agents this summer.
Now, it’s done to this: either the Warriors don’t force Kuminga to give up his inherent no-trade clause for the first year or he signs the QO.
Kuminga’s literal opening request was 3/75 with a player option. All this time later and GSW are finally going to get it to him. Tactics by GSW? Who knows.
> Now the question is whether Kuminga is dumb enough to still sign the QO, or
> understands this extra year is in his best interest because it will help him get
> traded.
Your premise is that there is no down-side to Kuminga spending another year or two under Steve Kerr, who has made repeated public statements that Kuminga doesn’t fit on the team. Outside the “HoopsRumors” Warriors bubble, the concensus is the opposite.
That has been Kuminga’s holdup all along. He wants to have control over where he gets traded to, or become unrestricted free agent next year where he can control where he goes.
That’s why he has been reluctant in getting rid of his no trade clause in the first year. Haven’t give the kid credit that at this age where the money the Warriors are offering him must seem overwhelming, he still wants to control his destiny.
There is no progress. The higher money comes with a TO in third year. And him giving up his Bird rights. Which he will never do. Kuminga wants to be in control of his destiny and his money. Warriors are offering the opposite. GS clearly knows he won’t sign. Seems the owner is only one who is interested. Kerr is committed to Horford, Melton, Payton. That can’t happen if Kuminga signs. For more than 20 mill. And Kuminga is not giving up his PO. He will sign the QO. Get traded to where he wants. Then do a new contract there. FF the Warriors ….. they have done this to themselves.
“General manager Mike Dunleavy Jr. turned down that idea, the authors state, as owner Joe Lacob is reportedly unwilling to accept any deal that puts the Warriors at risk of losing Kuminga next summer while getting nothing in return.”
And exactly wtf is going to happen after he signs the QO? Am I missing something?
I guess Lacob thinks that JK is not stupid enough to take only $8 million for next year.
Joe thinks there’s going to be some form of $22 million plus that will be worked out.
Either two years or three years and hopefully team option language, not player option?
I can’t wait to see how this all works out. It’s a mess either way.
This looks like a final offer for Kuminga. The ball is now in his court to take or throw back. He is going to need to have an all star season to get a better offer than what was given to him.
the most recent final offer since the last one
> This looks like a final offer for Kuminga.
arc89, you might want to think about sitting the rest of this Kuminga affair out. Is it possible to be more wrong than you have?
@GaryRSW
I hope he will figure out that he’s getting pretty close to what he wants by GS essentially matching (a much better overall player) Giddey’s pay while maximizing his chance to get traded (since Kerr’s claim that he’ll give him more minutes can’t be trusted).
Losing ~$15 mil plus gambling on what his market value will be in a year merely to be able to stop a trade to one of the 5-6 teams that would have the space to sign him at $25 mil/yr doesn’t seem worth it.
Stupid huh ……. The only stupid going on here. Is Warriors handling of all this. Its amazing how you dont want him. Yet don’t want him to leave. Still crying …
Angry Al I think taking 8 million instead of 24 million is really dumb or stupid.
I think Joe Lacob agrees that’s why Dunleavy turned down any idea of a player option. He agrees that Kuminga isn’t stupid and won’t take a mere 8 million when there’s 24 million on the table.
That’s just how part of me sees it but I can understand thinking he will take the QO. It is a possibility.
I just wouldn’t do it myself or advise anyone else to. But someone could have their reasons and I get it.
As far as the other part, I don’t want him on the team. I don’t think he’s good enough for the money he eventually wants. I would’ve traded him last year or the year before. Now they’re in this mess. No one wants to give “supposed” value.
How did the Warriors handle this poorly? Kuminga had close to $150 million on the table and said no. He then struggled in a contract year. You keep saying he is an All-Star and #1 scorer. So, why hasn’t he gotten any offers that reflect that status? The Warriors are asking for a 1st and promising young player in return on a trade. That doesn’t sound like an excessive amount. But, still no takers. Now, he’ll wind up with 5% of what he could of had. I don’t understand how the Warriors screwed up?
Kuminga wants a max extension and nothing less. At this moment in time Kuminga is taking a QO and play out the year waiting on that max extention. What makes no sense is the 2 year deal is better than taking a QO since he gets paid more. No team is going to trade for him under that deal unless they are going to give him heavy minutes which he wants.
With all respect arc I say it makes zero sense to take $8 million for one year when you can take $22 million or now even $24 million for one year and probably two years.
So $48 million and you delay your free agency for ONE YEAR.
To me that’s the biggest no-brainer in the history of the universe.
But I’ve said it here repeatedly and been shut down by other basketball fans so maybe I’m not seeing reality here?
But at 22 years old, I can’t see the difference between waiting one year, and waiting two years? Especially when the difference is $48 million and $8 million? But that’s just me.
I think the worst part of this is Kuminga doesn’t seem willing to improve his game. If he accepted the Warriors offer, he could have spent the summer working out with the guy who replaced him in the lineup, Butler. He could have learned why he was replaced and how to improve. Butler said at the end of last season he was willing to work with Kuminga. Butler and Draymond have been working out together. It would have been an opportunity for him to improve his value. Missed opportunity.
Yes Giant, I hear you. I guess he’s overseas doing his thing.
I think rip city nailed it below.
He wants a divorce and he’s willing to take a massive pay cut to do it. He’s just waiting till the last minute in case he can get a higher dollar amount under his terms.
But if they’re not under his terms, he’s going to take the QO and walk next summer.
I didn’t understand that line of thinking at all, but I see it clearly now for some reason. Thanks to rip city.., must’ve been the wording he used or something He wrote helped turn the light on fir me.
@GaryRedSoxxWarriors Maybe you’re getting tips from arc89. JK was only in Africa for 9 days.
Giants, why not just make stuff up when you want to criticize somebody.
He has worked out with a lot of guys on the Warriors over the summer. Including Moses and Draymond and Steph. He lives in the Bay Area and has 2 daughters. He’s also been back East a lot. Jimmy has mostly been in Amsterdam like every summer.
Where did you read that they were working out together? It was publicized that Draymond and Butler were working out together in LA.
I can’t imagine Kuminga doing a lot of working out with out a contract. If got injured like Klay, that basically kills two seasons for him. Why would he want to do that.
Jimmy loves the coffee shops 🌿
It makes no sense to take a QO but his agent is filling his head with a max extension dream. Same agent that told him last year to turn down the same deal Giddy just received.
Gary,
From an economic point of view, it comes down to this: Kuminga values his right to choose his next team way more than making $14M more this year.
That’s why it now down to this: either the Warriors’ offer allows him to keep his inherent no-trade in the first year or he’s signing the QO.
Here’s the flaw in your analysis: it’s not the “difference between $48M and $8M”, as you put it. Rather, it’s the difference between $22M and $8M this year. If he signs with the Warriors, he makes only $22M this season.
The odds that Kuminga doesn’t get a good contract in 2026-27 are virtually nil. He’d have to die. Even in the unlikely event he gets a serious injury, there will almost certainly be a team that signs him. He’s already made $30M playing for 4 years. A “guarantee” for a future year for a number much lower than his market value has little positive value to him.
It makes complete sense to Kuminga that he MUST find a situation shortly where he can succeed. Otherwise, he’ll never realize his potential. Steve Kerr has announced to the world exactly this: as long as he’s the coach, Kuminga would be better off elsewhere. (Yes, Kerr said that.)
@arc89
But if he takes the QO, he not only loses a guaranteed $48.3 mil for just $8 mil but also his Bird rights, which significantly affects his potential future earnings.
I guess he’s still trying to squeeze another concession out of the FO, but I’m pretty sure they have decided there won’t be a player option.
Turning down the contract last year is why he will not take the other offers. He will be losing money compared to last year’s offer. We have no idea what his agent is telling him. probably he will get that $150 million deal next year which i highly doubt will happen. He laso is making himself less wanted since other teams see it about a big pay day
The difference in guaranteed $ for agent Turner between the QO and the new offer is $1.6 million.
I doubt he’s advising Kuminga to gamble that much of his money.
The agent already blew a big pay out last year. Its a gamble he already lost a lot of money.
Turner has very few clients. If it’s true he lost $ on an extension deal for Kuminga last year because Kuminga said no (there are conflicting reports about what actually happened), he sure doesn’t want that to happen again now!
From what was reported the warriors offered him a $100 million deal and he turned it down last year. Kuminga was holding out for a max deal
arc89 said:
> Kuminga wants a max extension and nothing less.
You’ve made a lot of extreme statements on this matter over the last 3 months. This may be the winner.
There is no reason not to believe anything less since he alredy turned down every offer they have made to him. Extreme would be saying teams are offering the warriors great trades and they been turning them down.
> Kuminga wants a max extension and nothing else.
> There is no reason not to believe anything less since he alredy
> turned down every offer they have made to him.
That’s simply incorrect.
Turning down an offer (or offers) provides zero information about how much the seller wants. It says only that the offer is less than what the seller believes they are worth.
If Kuminga turned down an offer for $24Mill along with giving up his no-trade right does NOT mean he wants $42M. It means he wants something more/better than that $24M offer.
talking last year’s contracts he turned down and wanted a max. You seem to just want to argue without any facts.
Actually, you used the present tense, above, to say he wants the max. You said:
> Kuminga wants a max extension and nothing less.
Nobody believes he wanted “the max”. And that won’t change no matter how much you say it. The “max” is over $40M, about $10M-$15M more than he wanted last year and the Warriors were offering.
let me fix that for you. He will not take anything less than a high amount. He will not do a hometown discount. He has not come down off the $30 million a year he wants. This taken from the rumor mill…A major point of contention is a team option, which Kuminga’s team wants to bring his salary up to around $30 million annually, but the Warriors are viewing it as a nonstarter,
Oh gawd…At this point, the Warriors are much better off letting him walk. Addition by subtraction.
Face facts. The offense struggles with him in it no matter what they do. He has had 4 years to figure it out. It can’t be Kerr’s fault. They have made it clear what he needs to do. Plenty of other players have figured it out. Hell, Butler figured it out in his first game. Why can’t Kuminga? Some players just aren’t coach able?
What is he going to accomplish by taking the QO? What does he think his value is these days? The Suns and Kings weren’t offering that much. The Nets could easily signed him without the Warriors matching. Why would his value increase next off season? What team is going to be willing to cater to his demands?
The new offer proves that Warriors were negotiating in bad faith and still values Kuminga. Put your bias aside. QO is the worst thing that can happen for Warriors and it will not happen no matter what as long as Lacob is the owner and Curry is on the team.
How is Curry the villain?
Because Curry is the only reason why Kerr remains the HC.
Curry wants to still compete for a title and doesnt want to lose Kuminga for nothing.
Huh? Competing for a title is a bad thing? Why would you want players that don’t want to win? Kuminga has been with the team long enough that he should know what to do.
Kuminga was injured last year and Kerr only played him with scrubs
There’s nothing wrong with Curry wanted to compete for a title LOL. Such a weird take.
And it’s not really negotiating in bad faith … the writing is on the wall. And even if JK signs the QO … vs the contract that is offered, the Warriors save around $70M in taxes if JK signs the QO assuming how the rest of their pending signings go.
The way the current CBA is structured, cost control is highly important and any player that reaches the status of a RFA means they haven’t proven their value with the team (playing time, skill, etc.). It is what it is …
@Giants74 Weren’t you posting on the Giddey article a couple of days ago that the Warriors would never pay Kuminga this much. Wrong again.
Actually, I said it sets the market for him in free agency next off season. Giddey’s contract is guaranteed. Only $48 million of Kuminga’s contract is guaranteed. That’s a difference of $52 million. Thanks for playing.
He wants a divorce, he does not want to play in Golden State. He does not want to play for Kerr. He wants to pick where he gets to play. Free Agent. And he is willing to take a pay cut via the QO to be a free agent next year. The $15mm plus he loses in year 1 he believes he will make up in future contracts. If he signs anything with the Warriors he gets traded and he loses all control where he plays for a couple of years. Play someplace where you are happy! Good for him
OK, that makes sense. You explain it very well.
It’s a simple concept but it’s just hard for me to see it.
But you do a good job here in simplifying something that is essentially simple lol
I understand he doesn’t want to play for GS. But, is he really going to get what he wants? He wants to be the star, a foundational player, an All-Star. He hasn’t shown he can be those things. One writer said that Kuminga sounds a bit delusional.
I guess he’s taking a step back from that. The foundation is that he knows he won’t be a star in San Francisco so he wants out number one.
I guess he’ll worry about number two and number three later when he moves to the new team?
@Rip City
If he actually believes he will make up the $15 mil he’s going to lose without his Bird rights, he’s delusional.
And ofc, he doesn’t get to “pick where he gets to play”, the NTC only allows him to pick where he doesn’t play from a limited choice of options from whatever teams decide to make him an offer next season (projected to be only 5 teams with enough space to offer $25 mil/yr).
That’s a huge gamble with a low probability of success.
NBA is OK !!!
I just figured out that he was probably going to take the QO !!!
Now you’re messing me up and making that sound like a bad idea again.., like I’ve been saying for three months lol.
I just switched sides and now you’re refuting the logic behind the one year QO deal and hitting the UFA road?
I’m all over the place just trying to have an open mind and not be so rigid in my opinions. My goodness what a wishy-washy place to be.
A man with two opinions has none. This just needs to be settled so we can move on with our lives !! What a soap opera I’ve created in my mind.
Lol, easy Gary – it’s quite possible to understand why he might take the QO without having to change your previous opinion as to what makes the most sense both financially and how to leave ASAP.
To me, getting $48 mil guaranteed makes taking the QO much less likely, and with his agent losing $1.6 mil if he takes it, it’s unlikely the agent will be telling JK to take the QO gamble.
This was the FO adjusting the offer to be very close to Giddey’s, more than doubling the guaranteed $, and the proverbial ball is in Kuminga’s court for responding with a counter proposal.
@NBAisOK and @GaryRSWF, in this case, you are still both (mostly) wrong :–)
It’s not the amount or the guaranteed that are the focus of the negotiation. It’s Kuminga’s ability to control where he plays next. The Warriors could offer him $4M/yr more and he still wouldn’t take the deal without that control.
Except he might get traded to a team which would make him happy and, thus, get the best of both worlds. Not guaranteed to happen, sure, but it’s something he should keep in mind. In all likelihood, any team acquiring Kuminga knows a) he’ll want a lot of money down the road, b) if they’re willing to pay him then it’s also likely they significantly feature him on offense.
Now, if there are other important considerations to him beyond playing time that’s a different story and may change the calculation entirely. But I just don’t get the angle of there being fear he gets traded to a team that will not want to give him the role he wants.
> But I just don’t get the angle of there being fear he gets traded to a team
> that will not want to give him the role he wants.
How about being bundled with Jimmy Butler for Giannis?
Don’t get Davey started haha.
Not saying it couldn’t happen, just that at some point I think one should prioritize those extra $$$ over the risk of something like that happening. Of course, if other significant factors are in play that complicates things. But ultimately it’s still just a risk-reward analysis.
Plus, if Kuminga were truly dead set on the QO he would have already taken it. The fact that he hasn’t makes it clear there IS a number or set of conditions where he would resign regardless of his feelings towards the franchise and/or Kerr.
When you’re 22 years old, the possiblility of career-ending injury is negligible. He’s already made $30M.
I’m not saying he should sign the QO, but it’s a much more viable business decision than some here argue.
There is no reason for Kuminga to take the QO until the last moment. He can still hope another team have some payroll open up for a offer that warriors would need to match. There also teams that could be telling him we don’t have the money this year but next year we can offer you a huge contract. A team like the Nets if MPJ is let go since his deal is only partially guaranteed.
I don’t buy the Nets as being that interested in Kuminga. They are still below the minimum salary level even after the MPJ trade. They are still looking into salary dumps for picks. After seeing what OKC did, it might take a couple seasons. They had plenty of space to go after Kuminga this off-season.
Kuminga value goes up if he takes a QO and plays out the year. Any team signing he will give up no compensation for him. A team like the Nets want to hang on to their draft picks.
I meant that the Nets will take your unwanted salaries for picks.
Shea, agreed, he’s definitely not dead-set on the QO.
Any deal that guarantees these 2 things is preferable:
1. Multiple years guaranteed at $24M/yr
2. Keep his inherent trade veto rights for year 1.
Warriors have given in on 1.
Now, they must give on 2., or he signs QO.
Ari, this makes a lot of sense but wow, I’m sure ownership is not happy that the player holds all the cards.
A lot of ego involved here but a good businessman knows how to take emotion and ego out of it and make the best decision for the business.
Interesting chess match going on, but I think your scenario here is accurate.
Gary, ownership may not be happy but all will be forgotten if he signs an extension.
If not, he will be traded very soon, probably for very little.
NO chance he signs QO. Lacob will not allow it. Warriors will blink. Kuminga will get his money. Warriors will get someone worthy for Kuminga.
Agreed Lacob won’t let him go.
Disagree he will be traded. Why? Because Lacob doesn’t want to trade him. There will be a team post-Steph.
There will be a team after Steph, a very very bad one.
Not if they get Giannis ASAP!
Giannis….hahahahaha hahahahaha.
@aristotle
I think it would be VERY surprising if he gave up $40 mil guaranteed over the trade veto rights, but clearly it’s possible.
> I think it would be VERY surprising if he gave up $40 mil
> guaranteed over the trade veto rights
NBAisOK, we’ve discussed this before, so no need to read on if you’re not interested, but I don’t believe that’s a correct risk-reward analysis.
Practically speaking, the only thing he’s giving up is the difference betwen $8M and ~$23M this year. The odds of him not receiving a contract for 2026-27 are virtually nil. (He’d basically have to die. At 23 years old, an ACL or achilles procedure won’t derail his career.)
If you do a formal cost-benefit analysis (which would consider the risk and return of all his choices), signing a two year deal to play with the Warriors is by far the worst for any planning horizon less than 3 years.
Ari, if JK signs the two year thing, he’s not gonna play for the Warriors for two years.
Everyone knows the divorce is in the works.
What he’s afraid of is that he’s gonna suck at destination number two.
He wants to talk to the coach of his next team and or owner GM and get a guarantee of minutes and role lol
If it’s something he has to earn, it’s not happening and that’s the fear from the JK camp.
So the Warriors trading him to “wherever” does not work for Jonathan Kuminga. Fear of failure.., twice.
Gary!
A few things, per Anthony Slater’s talk with JK’s agent.
1. Kuminga dropped the requirement to keep his trade-veto as part of getting the improved terms. So, there is no “fear of failure” of being traded to another team.
2. They have told the Warriors Kuminga is fully on-board with playing a supporting role in winning a Chip for the next 2 seasons. That means he’s not requiring a role that he doesn’t earn.
For the same reasons I’ve argued with you for more than 1 year that the Warriors would sign Kuminga to an extension, I believe the Warriors want Kuminga to succeed with their team. Those reasons are, one, the owner keeps on saying so, and, two, the owner and front office are also planning for the success of the team in two seasons, when the Big 3 are (likely) done.
I have never said that Kuminga won’t be traded in the future, only that they won’t trade him for the sake of trading him.
Some things can be bigger than pure dollar value for humans. I know, tough to fathom. At this point it feels like JK feels disrespected by GS, and is willing to say either let me go for nothing or give me more guaranteed and meaningful say-so over a trade destination.
And if he’s willing to forfeit money over a principle, whether I agree with it or not, more people need to make decisions on factors beyond money. It’s not like he’ll be broke for taking $9 million next year and telling the Warriors have a good day.
Yes luvhoops, I get it now. After 3 months of standing firm in my position, I finally can see the light of where JK is standing.
That’s why I love it here. I think I’m right and then I learn something new or come to a certain realization for some reason. Good stuff guys.
I definitely see the downside and the negatives, don’t get me wrong. And I also know he probably should have taken the contact offer during the season/earlier.
I just don’t think he’s in as dire a position as some make it to be, and I always root for someone who is willing to take a gamble on themselves.
I guess. But the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Sure he wants to play for the Suns and jack up shots and play 36+ per game. I think the type of player JK aspires to be is losing value under the new CBA. Too bad he can’t use all those physical gifts to try and contribute to winning. And, he could always get hurt and leave all that money on the table.
Every decision comes with a risk/reward analysis. If he thinks the potential reward is worth the risk, fine with me, but IMO it’s very likely to end up being a substantial net negative.
My own risk/reward formula was extremely skewed when I was 22 years old.
Once you are a millionaire the whimsical notion of becoming a billionaire isn’t for all…
The meaning of more money loses it’s luster…
With Kuminga off the books and the salary cap rising by $11 million, it seems the Warriors will have about $30 million to play with in Free Agency. So, they might not lose as much.
So if JK takes the QO and there’s no trade, this is going to make for a loooong season of some level of uncertainty on the floor and in the locker room. He really doesn’t wanna be here. Yikes what a mess.
Gary, possibly, but unlikely.
If he signs QO, Kuminga’s camp and the Warriors will immediately get together to discuss the teams that Kuminga is willing to be traded to. Keep in mind that they have already been identified. Kuminga and his agent had permission to talk to all NBA teams about an S+T, and took that opportunity to discuss those teams’ interest.
There were reportedly talks with the Lakers (some say as part of a failed LeBron deal) and there are several other teams with plenty of open cap space next summer. He’ll be very attractive to other teams because Kuminga will be underpaid both this season at $8M and in the following season.
Anyway, that list of Kuminga-approved teams have been identified. Warriors will very likely take the best offer they can get before the trade deadline. Which is better than getting nothing at end of the season.
Lacob won’t let it happen.
It’s really not as complicated as everyone is making it out to be. Kuminga wants to be a Warrior but he wants some control over his future and to not have to play the next 2-3 years with the “will he be used in a trade” or “will the Warriors decline his team option to open up cap space” cloud hanging over his head. Basically he doesn’t want to resign for 2+ years only for the Warriors to flip him in a few months to a less desirable location that he’s now stuck in for the duration of his contract.
The Warriors have shown very little that they actually envision him as a long term part of the team considering they extended Draymond, traded and extended Jimmy Butler, and Kuminga barely played in the playoffs (plus Kerr’s comments; and Kerr’s recent assurances is basically lip service at this point). At this point, Kuminga should just take the QO and hope for the best this season. Yes he’d be betting on himself by taking the QO but that also means he’s a free agent after the season and can choose his next team…might be for less than what the Warriors are offering him right now but at least its a team of his choice who would presumably envision him as a long term piece.
Kuminga barely played in the playoffs because they were trying to win. They didn’t get there because of Kuminga. They got there because of Butler.
Stop using a small sample to decide Kuminga is entirely worthless in the NBA. He has been good before, he will continue to improve as long as the HC isnt some egomanical loser who rode Curry to 4 rings.
Kerr is worthless, Kerr is the problem. Kerr is the one gotta go.
When Steph got shelved in Game 1, Round 2 JK took the scoring load on for the Dubs.
All off the bench…
GM 2 18points
GM 3 30 points
GM 4 23 points
GM 5 26 points
He’s 22 yrs old easily dropping buckets in the NBA Playoffs. Tantalizing. On the other hand kid doesn’t pass, can’t rebound or play any defense.
Twolves swept all 4 of those games.
@fredweis,
I’ll quote Tim Legler on the ESPN national broadcast: “why play your best player 30 minutes when he should be playing 38 minutes?” We probably win one of those games if Kerr plays Kuminga as much as he played Butler. But that would mean valuing winning more than being in control.
BTW, great post until the “can’t play any defense”. In fact, he played outstanding on-ball defense, especially against AntMan. Without Wiggins, and with a tired Jimmy, this team has nobody that can guard big athletic wings.
It is easy to look back and 2nd guess. Kerr didn’t have that luxury in the playoffs. Jimmy opened a stagnant offense that ranked 17th. Even with Curry, they ranked 16th in 3-point shooting. So, there was not a lot of room for error. He went with what was working at the time.
Also, other players did not show up. Moody was injured. Podz was also injured, or in a slump. Post struggled.
Damn right the other players didn’t show up. That’s why Kerr should have gone all in on Kuminga in the Minnesota series — start him, give him the most minutes possible, let him score another 5-7 points per game.
But Kerr’s fragile ego wouldn’t permit it. The national audience saw it with their own eyes. As Tim Legler said, “Why play your best player 30 minutes? Play him 38 minutes.” At least GP2’s feelings didn’t get hurt.
Giants74 You missed the Minnesota series. 2nd round of playoffs. You sure we didn’t want to win?
He played 30 mins per game in most important games of the year. Our best player by far with Steph out.
Keep ‘em comin
Before you get to the 2nd round of the playoffs, you have to go through the regular season. What was the Warriors record the day that Butler arrived? What was it when the regular season finished? Do you really believe that they would have made the playoffs the way they were playing before Butler arrived? Why wouldn’t Kerr stay with what was working.
@Giants74. That’s loser talk. The HC job is to figure out how to take advantage of all players. That’s how you win Championships. The Warriors should have been better than winning 1 playoff series.
Kuminga had broken through to new level when he got injured in January. Kerr said Kuminga had figured it out and had arrived.
GSW did not get Butler to replace Kuminga. Dunleavey and Lacob expected BOTH Butler and JK to contribute. But, As we learn from Kerr, he Kerr didn’t even try. He told Kuminga to learn to play like GP2. Then he publicly blamed Kuminga for not being the kind of player he wanted to play.
@Giants74 the fact that you cant understand an injured player gets better as time goes on here is blowing my mind. It’s almost you have have no basketball analysis skills at all.
People keep saying that somehow as a UFA with a no-trade clause he will be able to “choose his next team”.
What it actually means is he will be able to stop a trade to a team he doesn’t want to be traded to. That’s a big difference. And there’s no way to tell what $ value his market will be next offseason, after what happens as a Warrior this season.
NBAisOK, That’s not the way the likely scenarios play out.
One scenario is that he stays with the team until the end of the season, in which case he can choose any team who wants and can afford him.
But the most likely scenario is that Kuminga’s camp and the Warriors get together to discuss the teams that Kuminga is willing to be traded to. Keep in mind that Kuminga and his agent had permission to talk to all NBA teams about an S+T, and took that opportunity to discuss those teams’ interest. There were reportedly extensive talks with the Lakers (some say as part of a LeBron deal). Anyway, those teams have been identified.
Most likely, if Kuminga takes the QO, the Warriors will immediately start tyring to create a competitive situation between the teams he can be traded to and take the best deal by the trade deadline.
I don’t think that money is the issue here. They are not far apart on $$.
But the two sides don’t trust each other. Surely, this divorce will happen. The question is when and what will be the terms. Kuminga wants more control over how and when he gets traded and to whom. The Warriors want to maintain that control. For me those are the key issues – trust and control. I hope they find a compromise.
Jonathan Kuminga is from the Congo, right? We don’t know his upbringing. Maybe he just doesn’t want to be treated like his forefathers were and told where, when and how he has to work. I sense he’s totally fed up, right or wrong, with his treatment in Golden State and now that’s more important than money to him. He doesn’t want to be traded just anywhere his owners decide to send him. He wants to control his own destiny. I feel for him and will watch his path forward.
In all of this, the framing is all wrong, its not “GSW vs Kuminga” its “idiot Kerr being bad at his job vs Kuminga, a player he should have been starting every single game.”
Kuminga has lived in the US since he was 13. He’s very much American, I’d say.
It’s an important consideration that he’s from a very poor country. He’s already on the list of 50 richest citizens (along with a bunch of soccer players).
He lives modestly with a small family in the US. But keep in mind that he’s already made $30M in the NBA. He’s already able to live like royalty there for the rest of his life.
Its nothing but infuriating that Kerr has a lifetime job, despite not being good at the key aspects of the job. Fire this loser and move on.
@davey j “Kuminga was injured last year and Kerr only played him with scrubs”…Curry is now a scrub? Time to get rid of Curry. Davey J says he is scrub…Sheesh…Your hatred of Kerr knows no depths. Have thought of coming up for air?
Kuminga never played with Curry, he played down the stretch with scrubs, YOUR hatred of Kuminga knows no depths! Why??? He was INJURED last year!!! Stop hating on champion Warriors, you weirdo!
@daveyJ, it’s not hatred for Kuminga, it’s Steve Kerr sycophancy.
Only months ago, Giants74 was claiming how well Kuminga fit on the roster (accurately citing the statistical record) and that he could help the Warriors for years to come. Giants74 even proposed that Kuminga should take a lower salary so GSW could sign Brook Lopez as a free-agent.
As soon as his Dear Leader screwed up, Giants74 turned on Kuminga. Expect another flip-flop from Giants when Kerr again waxes flattery for the newly signed Kuminga.
@aristotle
“Your premise is that there is no down-side to Kuminga spending another year or two under Steve Kerr, who has made repeated public statements that Kuminga doesn’t fit on the team. Outside the “HoopsRumors” Warriors bubble, the concensus is the opposite.”
If he signs the QO, he’s virtually guaranteed to spend the entire season under Kerr.
If he signs the 2+1 current offer, there’s a decent chance he could be traded by the trade deadline this season.
It seems that people are interpreting Kerr’s words in odd ways. Kuminga was hurt when they traded for Butler. Part of the reason for the trade was their shooter, Curry, was getting hammered. (Dunleavy and Butler played together with the Bulls) He was always doubled. That all stopped when Butler arrived. Curry said Butler made his life much easier. Kerr asked, should have told, Kuminga to watch film of Butler and learn. The team’s play skyrocketed afterwards. So, why sit Butler for Kuminga? Kerr said Kuminga had to adapt his game to what was happening. It was to late in the season to integrate Kuminga. Kerr also said that it was something they needed to work on in training camp, not when you are making a push for the playoffs.
Davey….probably more like Joker as well as LeBron and Giannis for Santos, Post Butler and a 2nd round pick, lols. What CBA?
That is BS from Kerr and everyone in basketball knows it. Kerr had plenty of time to integrate Kuminga.
About 3 months. He admits they didnt spend one minute on it. Even when JK was working out with the team during recovery. Not 1 conversation. Kerr said so in the interview
Are you saying the Warriors played better before Butler arrived? And they did try to integrate Kuminga. It didn’t work.
@Giants74 are you literally a Steve Kerr believer? My brother, he has only ever been a hindrance on the team. Curry would have 7 rings minimum right now if Lacob picked any other HC. I’m going to have to mute you if you think Kerr has been a positive to GSW, intsead of a massive, gaping failure at everything other than “ride Curry greatness/gravity to victory”. Name any task Kerr got that he did well: he cant control Draymond, he cant develop lottery picks, he cannot form any rotations that are intelligent, he only has 1 move: go small, he has been literally the worst HC in the NBA from 2023-present. Doug Christie outcoached him with a lesser roster. Kerr is the worst thing to happen to GSW, believing otherwise is a pure lie and cope. Sorry man.
> they did try to integrate Kuminga. It didn’t work.
Kerr NEVER tried to integrate Kuminga. That’s the entire point. Kerr said so in the Kawakami interview. As you just said why yourself: Kerr said he didn’t have time.
Kuminga was asked to play the same role as GP2, which meant never receiving the ball on the wing, and standing in the corner.
I’m saying it was Kerr’s job to figure out how to play both. Like he says he will do this season.
NBAisOK
> If he signs the QO, he’s virtually guaranteed to spend
> the entire season under Kerr.
I don’t blame you for not reading my long-winded posts (I wouldn’t !!) on on this thread, but the opposite is true. SIgning the QO virtually guarantees the Warriors will trade him for the best offer they could get by the trade deadline.
> If he signs the 2+1 current offer, there’s a decent
> chance he could be traded by the trade deadline this
> season.
He and his agent have said they will sign the QO unless the Warriors remove their demand for him to give up his inherent trade veto.
That doesn’t mean he won’t agree to a trade if he retains his right to veto. I’d still say a a trade is probable.
My take on the Kuminga situation is this:
MDJ, Lacob and Kerr sat down and saw this potential roadblock, but also saw the way how so many teams were financially handicapped this offseason, that it would be best for GSW and Kuminga to play a game of flinch and see if anything happens that could play into their favor during the offseason, as signing him early is a low percentage move, if they always did plan to sign him, Kuminga being the fave of Lacob. Their potential best case scenario with this move is something like Giddey for Kuminga becoming feasible. Sadly, this has not panned out, which leads us to the worst outcome: annoying the fans by holding up the offseason signings because of these contract issues, which were always likely to pan out being “player A signs with same team he was with last year”.
Kuminga even as an overpaid bench guy has immense value. Jimmy and Dray will not play 82. GSW needs a healthy Kuminga to be competitive, I cannot stand seeing supposed Warriors fans saying “cut him loose” just because they are annoyed at the hold up. Without Kuminga, GSW are way, way worse than they are with him. He has limitless potential, he was also injured last year. A breakout does appear imminent once the injuries calm down, same with Moody. If you know ball you can see this from a mile away. Who cares if Kuminga is bad year 1 then an all-star in year 3? GSW will take it.
I definitely believe GSW will move on from Butler, either for Lebron or Giannis or maybe another high paid superstar who is a cleaner fit, or a big. I think they are waiting for Kuminga to start dominating on both sides of the ball in every game when he is used to make that move, which likely will be sometime after Dec 15.
Quick offer Butler, Kuminga and Toohey’s draft rights for Durant and Adams or Capela
With Draymond Green and Butler there, Kuminga will always be a bench guy.
I think GSW would rather just make that trade with the Lakers for Lebron.
Lebron+Curry > Jim+Curry
Jim+Luka > Luka+Lebron
Both teams win.
LeBron James, LeBron James Jr, Dalton K and Gabe Vincent for Butler, Kuminga, Toohey’s draft rights even though I wouldn’t like this trade . GS then trades Vincent for salary relief
Can’t trade Kuminga. Keep it simple: Bron, Knecht and Bronny for Jimmy and Podz.
@Davey J Hummm…According to the official NBA lineup combination stats, Curry and Kuminga played in 36 games for a total 545 minutes. That’s an average 13-14 minutes a game.
There is a very good reason why Kuminga didn’t play a lot down the stretch. Butler and Kuminga play the same position. With Butler in the lineup, they had the stingiest defense, scoring increased, and won 70% of their games. So, why should Kerr sit Butler with those results?
It shouldn’t matter who Kuminga plays with. Great players raise the level play of their teammates. Kuminga wants to be an All-Star. He should show it.
13 MPG but should have been 25. Players cannot adjust when used haphazardly like Kerr uses Kuminga. Kerr gave him a new role every single game, that’s disgustingly bad coaching, Kerr is entirely clueless at developing players and admitted as such.
“He should show it” he doesn’t get any chance to! Kerr puts him in lineups designed to lose!
@Davey What new roles was Kerr giving Kuminga every single game? Moody was able to adjust. Why can’t Kuminga?
His qualifying expires October 1st, what if he remains unsigned past then? Does he become unrestricted potentially opening the door for the Kings, Suns, Nets, etc to make him an offer directly and therefore not having to give up anything to the warriors?
Furthermore what if he remains unsigned going into this upcoming season which starts near the end of October?
He’d still be restricted beyond Oct. 1 — he just would no longer have the fallback option of accepting the QO. That would kill his leverage, which is why it’s likely there will be resolution by then.
Luke- what’s your guess as to how they resolve the no-trade sticking point?
If he signs later, Kuminga won’t be able to be traded until 3 months after he signs.
TRADE KUH-MIN-GUH!
TRADE KUH-MIN-GUH!
TRADE KUH-MIN-GUH!
Oh – he’s getting traded. The question at this point is whether the Warriors get to choose where he goes, or whether Kuminga gets to choose. It might cost him around $20M to be the decider. Worth it? Not so much. What are the truly horrible destinations out there that he just can’t abide going to? Maybe he could come up with a list of 5 teams that the Warriors would agree to not trade him to? Is that even allowed?
Oh – he’s getting traded? Really?
Everyone on this site has been totally wrong about JK for 3 months. Maybe time to admit you’re missing something about the situation?
3-1 that Kuminga is a Warrior one year from now.
OK – Bag of peanuts? If I win you owe me three bags.
Jimmy Butler has a larger chance of being traded (for Lebron) than Kuminga does this year.
@Aristotle Huh? I didn’t know people have to call Jimmy Butler “Dear Leader” now. Is that a new EO from Trump? Did you know what the Warriors salary cap would look like 6 months ago? Wouldn’t it be better if Butler and Kuminga where working out together this summer instead of having contract squabbles.
Butler is not going to last very long on GSW. Lebron will ask out and Draymond will tell Lacob to make the deal. See it from a mile away.
Lebron Knecht Bronny for Jimmy and Podz = great deal for both sides.
@davey j So, Despite having the most wins and championships, Kerr is the worst thing to ever happen to the Warriors?
If Curry is all you need to win a Championship, why isn’t Don Nelson still the Head Coach?
@Giants74 Kerr is worthless without Curry, Kerr literally does not have a job without Curry. Curry has stated he is Kerr’s #1 supporter, which means Curry is the reason why Kerr has not been fired yet, when every other team fires their title-winning coach after 1-2 years now, especially since Kerr said he literally does not know how to develop players – that should have gotten him fired, just like being happy and saying 15-50 was his fave year of all time because there was no pressure – literally admitting weakness as a leader. Nope. Fire him. Name a non-Curry team Kerr has coached that did well: oops, he has never been good.
If Kerr is a genius, why did he flop as Suns GM? Why is he scared to coach a non-Curry team?
Kerr was right guy for the job 10years ago when W’s were loaded. He deserves his props for the golden years.
These days he’s just collecting $15 million paycheck and the team has been underperforming. KD would be here if he left.
Exactly, and if KD is still here, then the ’21 title, ’22 title, ’23 title, ’24 title, ’25 title are all likely theirs or they at least make the finals in all those years. I don’t see anyone beating the Hamptons 5 and beyond, like whoever they would theoretically get to replace Andre if KD was here, etc.
Imagine a world where Wiggins was never on GSW…glorious…
I’m now extra mad that even if people think Kuminga is bad at aspects of the game, at least his overall package is nowhere near annoying or infuriatingly inconsistent to watch as Andrew Wiggins overall game is. I wake up so happy I no longer have to support that boring mid loser ever again. “Maple Jordan” but he’s the softest player in NBA history, a classic born-rich soft nepo baby (bad) (not nepo baby (good) aka Curry).
I would rather watch Kuminga 100% of the time instead of Wiggins, are you all joking? I cannot wait for Kuminga time next season, hopefully on the Warriors, but if not, it means a star-level player is coming back, which is good. I just want to win another ring while Curry is still cooking everyone and everything
@Aristotle
“Signing the QO virtually guarantees the Warriors will trade him for the best offer they could get by the trade deadline.”
Except there won’t be much of a quality return to match a $8 mill salary. So they’d likely try to engineer a S&T after the season.
@NBAisOK,
> Except there won’t be much of a quality return to match a $8 mill salary. So
> they’d likely try to engineer a S&T after the season.
IMO, an S&T after the season is an extreme long shot. First, as an unrestricted free agent, Kuminga can be signed for free and there are too many teams with available cap space (see esp Lakers).
Second, assuming GSW finds a team that needs to clear cap space to acquire Kuminga, they’d need to take back roughly $30M to match Kuminga’s new package. The Warriors are already deep in the luxury tax and paying their big three $140M/yr. It seems unlikely there’s a deal out there like that.
IMO, if he signs the QO, the Warriors will take the best of the low-ball offers they can get before the trade deadline.
@aristotle
Why do you think there will be any “lowball offers” under the QO, when he could just leave after the partial season? Teams would just wait until he’s a UFA rather than wasting a trade asset for a short-term rental.
@NBAisOK, I think there will be lowball offers because:
1) he’d be an extraordinary value for the remainder of this season at $8M/yr
2) the team that acquires him in mid-season has a huge advantage in signing him to a long-term deal after the season
There are a small number of deals Kuminga would approve. Random, unconfirmed speculation: I got this rumor from another site, but he and his agent had a *lot* of discussions with Lakers over the last few months around S&T. Lakers have the cap space and a slot with LeBron leaving.