Central Notes: Giddey, Bulls, Hardaway, Pistons
The Bulls have some major decisions to make about their talented — and perhaps too crowded — backcourt moving forward, writes Joe Cowley of The Chicago Sun-Times (subscriber link).
Starting guard Josh Giddey enjoyed an impressive debut season in Chicago. As he heads to restricted free agency this offseason, however, Cowley wonders just how much will be too much for the Bulls when it comes to Giddey’s annual salary.
Following a rocky start, Giddey rounded into form down the season’s home stretch. After the league’s All-Star break — and after the Bulls traded away former All-Star guard Zach LaVine — Giddey logged averages of 21.2 points, 10.7 rebounds, and 9.3 assists per night, and connected on an impressive 45.7% of his three-point attempts.
“Coming into a new situation, I never want to come in here and step on any toes,” Giddey said. “I was trying too hard to fit in and please everybody, and [after the] All-Star break and [trade] deadline, I started to play freely and be me.”
Cowley is convinced that Giddey will remain in Chicago long-term, but notes that recently extended reserve guard Lonzo Ball and veterans Ayo Dosunmu, Kevin Huerter and Coby White could all be on the trade market next season. Among those four, only Ball is under contract beyond 2025/26.
There’s more out of the Central Division:
- Bulls front office decision makers had an opportunity at this week’s draft combine in Chicago to get an up-close look at some candidates for their No. 12 pick in June’s draft, writes Julia Poe of The Chicago Tribune. As Poe writes, the Bulls interviewed prospects like Texas guard Tre Johnson, Georgetown center Thomas Sorber, Georgia forward Asa Newell, Connecticut forward Liam McNeeley, South Carolina forward Collin Murray-Boyles, and Michigan State guard Jase Richardson. Poe adds that Duke center Khaman Maluach and Maryland center Derik Queen could also be on Chicago’s radar.
- Upon being traded to Detroit from Dallas during the 2024 offseason, Pistons swingman Tim Hardaway Jr. emerged as exactly the kind of reliable, role-playing veteran the team needed en route to its first playoff appearance in six years, writes Keith Langlois of Pistons.com. Hardaway is one of three heavily used Pistons vets who will hit free agency this summer, along with Sixth Man of the Year finalist Malik Beasley and guard Dennis Schröder. Langlois notes that there is a possibility that all three could be back on new deals, if the price is right.
- In case you missed it, nine-time Bucks All-Star forward Giannis Antetokounmpo is set to meet up with Milwaukee decision makers to discuss his future with the team next week.
Scotto’s Latest: Gafford, Huerter, Jazz, Boozer, Giddey, More
Looking ahead to the 2025 offseason trade market, Michael Scotto of HoopsHype identifies Daniel Gafford as a possible trade candidate to watch if the Mavericks and the veteran big man are unable to come to terms on a contract extension.
While Gafford has been a key rotation player over the last season-and-a-half in Dallas, he doesn’t project to be a starter as long as Anthony Davis and Dereck Lively are healthy, and his expiring $14.4MM contract could be a useful salary-matching piece as the Mavericks shop for backcourt help this summer.
Scotto also notes that Bulls wing Kevin Huerter drew some interest from the Jazz after being acquired by Chicago at this year’s trade deadline. The Kings were known to have explored the possibility of a John Collins trade before making their De’Aaron Fox deal, so Huerter likely came up in those talks with Utah. However, Scotto’s wording suggests the Jazz still had interest in Huerter after Sacramento agreed to send him to the Bulls.
It’s unclear if the Jazz will circle back to Huerter this summer or if their interest was solely about acquiring another asset that would’ve been attached to the veteran’s unwanted contract.
Here are several more highlights from Scotto’s latest rumor round-up:
- Carlos Boozer, who earned two All-Star berths with the Jazz during his playing career, has been around the team at the draft combine in Chicago this week and is expected to be hired by Utah as a scout, league sources tell HoopsHype.
- According to Scotto, there’s still a belief around the NBA that Bulls restricted free agent Josh Giddey will be seeking a five-year, $150MM contract this summer, similar to the one Jalen Suggs signed with Orlando last fall. That was Giddey’s reported asking price last October as well.
- While David Griffin wanted to hang onto Kelly Olynyk and re-sign Bruce Brown, it’s unclear how new Pelicans head of basketball operations Joe Dumars feels about that veteran duo, Scotto writes. There’s a similar situation at work in Atlanta, where there was an expectation prior to Landry Fields‘ dismissal that the Hawks would try to re-sign Larry Nance Jr. and Caris LeVert while letting go of Clint Capela. It’s not yet known if that will still be the plan for the new-look front office, Scotto notes.
- Sixers assistant Coby Karl isn’t expected to return to Nick Nurse‘s coaching staff next season, Scotto reports.
Central Notes: Bulls, Garland, Haliburton, Pistons
After a third straight play-in appearance that fell short of a playoff berth, the Bulls face an interesting offseason, as NBA insider Yossi Gozlan of The Third Apron (Substack link) previews.
Chicago guard Josh Giddey submitted an encouraging performance during his inaugural season with Chicago, just in time for him to hit restricted free agency this summer. Gozlan notes that a club with cap space, like Brooklyn, could potentially give Giddey an offer sheet, but the Bulls will have the rights to match it. Gozlan projects that Giddey’s play could fetch him a yearly salary in the range of $20-$30MM.
Standout guard Coby White, who will be eligible for a contract extension next season, could earn a significant annual raise if he forgos an extension and instead waits until he reaches unrestricted free agency in 2026.
As Gozlan writes, veterans Nikola Vucevic, Kevin Huerter, Ayo Dosunmu, and Zach Collins are all on expiring deals, and many of those players could be moved in offseason trades rather than extended.
There’s more out of the Central Division:
- Cavaliers All-Star guard Darius Garland is expected to be a game-time decision for the first contest of Cleveland’s second round playoff series against Indiana, reports Joe Reedy of The Associated Press. Garland sat out the final two contests of the Cavaliers’ four-game sweep of Miami with a sprained left big toe. “We’re just in this kind of area where you just got to kind of see day-by-day and see how it feels tomorrow morning,” head coach Kenny Atkinson said on Saturday.
- Cavaliers players are doing what they can to prepare for two-time Pacers All-Star guard Tyrese Haliburton, per Chris Fedor of Cleveland.com. “He always makes the right play and doesn’t really stat hunt,” sixth man Ty Jerome said. “He’s a winner. He takes and makes big shots. He leads that team. He’s a real definition of a point guard.” Six-time All-Star Cavaliers guard Donovan Mitchell, meanwhile, respects Haliburton’s influence on his team’s offense. “He’s the head of the snake,” Mitchell said. “There’s a lot of respect for him and what he brings over there. At the end of the day, if people want to say that, they want to say that, but, you know, we don’t look at it that way. We understand how important he is to that group. He’s a threat, and we’ve got to make sure we try to find ways to neutralize him.”
- The Pistons submitted an impressive bounce-back season in 2024/25 that included their first playoff berth since 2019, writes Omari Sankofa II Detroit Free Press (subscriber link). Now, the club will see four veterans head to unrestricted free agency and also faces extension decisions on young former lottery picks Jaden Ivey and Jalen Duren, who will be extension-eligible. Sankofa unpacks the potential fates of these contributors and addresses other burning offseason questions facing Detroit.
Bulls Notes: Karnisovas, Vucevic, Ball, Patton, More
Before talking about his plans for the Bulls‘ future, executive VP of basketball operations Arturas Karnisovas addressed a couple rumors about himself at Thursday’s press conference, writes Joe Cowley of The Chicago Sun-Times.
First, Karnisovas said he has no interest in returning to the Nuggets to replace recently fired general manager Calvin Booth. He also emphasized that he considers his job with the Bulls to be safe because he still has a strong relationship with owners Jerry Reinsdorf and Michael Reinsdorf.
“We take pride, especially in this building, in everybody being on the same page,” Karnisovas said. “It’s very hard to accomplish, but that’s how it is in this building between the ownership, front office, coaching staff, performance staff, so they have always been very supportive of my decisions, my thoughts, about this direction.”
He added that the team achieved many of its goals coming into the season, such as changing its style of play, developing its young talent and keeping its first-round pick for 2025. He admitted that major changes are unlikely to happen this summer, but noted that the Bulls will have more financial flexibility in 2026.
“I’m asking fans for patience because we’re in the first year of that transition,” Karnisovas said. “I thought the way we finished the year showed some promise. It’s hard to win games in this league and to finish 15-5, yeah, it’s not a victory lap, but I think there are some positives.”
There’s more from Chicago:
- The trade speculation that surrounded Nikola Vucevic heading into the February deadline is likely to re-emerge this summer. After Wednesday’s play-in loss, the 34-year-old center talked about wanting to be with a team that can “win now” and make long playoff runs (Twitter video link from Chicago Sports Network).
- Lonzo Ball was never able to return from the sprained right wrist that kept him out of action since February 28, but he said it won’t require surgery, per K.C. Johnson of Chicago Sports Network (Twitter link). After missing two and a half seasons due to a knee injury, Ball said his knee “did better than expected” and he’s looking forward to a normal offseason without having to concentrate on rehab. “I went above the goals I set for myself (physically),” Ball added (Twitter link).
- Bulls director of player development Peter Patton won’t be returning to the team next season, Johnson confirms (via Twitter). According to Cowley, the news of Patton’s exit left some players on the roster “beyond pissed,” as one told the Sun-Times in a text message.
- Within the same Sun-Times story, Cowley says there’s a feeling in the organization that while Karnisovas often asks for player input before making decisions, he doesn’t always take those opinions into account. “They have to fit his,” one source explained to Cowley.
- Given that the Bulls have only won a single playoff game since Karnisovas and Billy Donovan joined the organization in 2020, Julia Poe of The Chicago Tribune wonders why the team’s head of basketball operations and head coach aren’t on hotter seats.
- ESPN’s Bobby Marks previews the Bulls’ offseason in an Insider-only story, as well as in a YouTube video. Working out a new contract with restricted free agent Josh Giddey and determining what to do with veterans on expiring contracts are among the top summer priorities in Chicago, as Marks details.
Luke Adams contributed to this story.
Bulls Notes: Play-In Loss, White, Karnisovas, Huerter
The Bulls‘ season ended in familiar fashion on Wednesday night with another loss to Miami in the play-in tournament, writes Julia Poe of The Chicago Tribune. This is the third straight year that it’s happened, and Wednesday’s game wasn’t close, with the Heat pulling away early while sinking a barrage of outside shots.
Poe notes that Miami scored 39 points in the first quarter and 32 more in the second quarter, neutralizing the Bulls’ game plan of pushing the pace in transition because they constantly had to inbound the ball after made shots. The Heat connected on 10 three-pointers in the first half and held a 24-point lead at intermission.
The home crowd found a little bit to cheer about as the Bulls briefly cut the lead to 13 points in the fourth quarter, but Miami quickly responded to put the game away. With a 39-43 record and an early postseason exit, Poe points out that it’s Chicago’s worst season in four years. The loss ensures the Bulls’ first-round pick will be in the lottery, but they’ll have minuscule odds of moving up to one of the top four selections.
There’s more from Chicago:
- Coby White believes the Heat’s experience in big games made the difference, per Andrew Seligman of The Associated Press. White, who had been on a scoring tear to close out the regular season, finished with 17 points but shot just 5-of-20 from the field. “We didn’t really have game-plan discipline,” he said. “We beat them in the regular season. We thought if we just do what we normally do, then we’ll be good. But obviously, they’ve got guys that have been to the finals. They’ve got guys that know what it takes. They got a head coach who’s one of the best head coaches in the league. They came in and they were the better team tonight.”
- Executive VP of basketball operations Arturas Karnisovas should be embarrassed that he wasted another season on player development instead of finding a way to get elite talent on the roster, contends Joe Cowley of The Chicago Sun-Times. Cowley states that every mistake the front office has made over the past five years was on display Wednesday night, but the ultimate difference was dominant shooting by Miami’s Tyler Herro, who finished with 38 points. “You look at any great team, they have ‘a guy’ that’s really, really elite,” coach Billy Donovan said. “And a lot of times it’s in the backcourt. I think Coby made a really good jump, and wherever he gets to, I don’t know. Josh (Giddey) made a nice jump. I’m sure those will be all things the front office will take a look at as they go into the draft and free agency. I don’t disagree with you because that’s kind of been the case. I think what’s changed is the number of guys you needed.”
- Kevin Huerter, who was acquired from Sacramento in February, is hoping for a long-term future in Chicago, Cowley adds in a separate story. Huerter still has one season left on his contract, and he wants to find some stability after being dealt twice in the past three years.
Bulls, Heat Dealing With Injuries Going Into Play-In Game
Bulls guard Josh Giddey will be available for tonight’s play-in game against Miami, but both teams are missing key players for the elimination contest. In a pregame meeting with reporters, Chicago coach Billy Donovan said Giddey, who has been dealing with pain in his right hand, won’t be on a minutes restriction, relays Jared Weiss of The Athletic (Twitter link).
Giddey sat out the final two games of the regular season, and sources tell Shams Charania of ESPN (Twitter video link) that he’s been playing for roughly the last month with a muscle tear in the palm of his hand. Charania called it “a pain-tolerance injury” and said Giddey will need several weeks of rest after the season ends to fully recover.
Charania also states that Giddey’s value is “going up” as he prepares for restricted free agency this summer. He’s averaging 21.2 points, 10.7 rebounds and 9.3 assists over his last 19 games while shooting 46% from beyond the arc.
Donovan added that Lonzo Ball remains out, but he could be available by Sunday if the Bulls advance to a first-round series against Cleveland. Ball has been sidelined since February 28 with a sprained right wrist. Donovan also provided an update on point guard Tre Jones, who has been out since March 20 with a left foot sprain, saying he’s out of a walking boot but likely won’t be ready for the first round.
The Heat are shorthanded too, per Anthony Chiang of The Miami Herald (Twitter link). Nikola Jovic remains sidelined while recovering from a broken right hand that has kept him out of action since late February and Kevin Love is still reconditioning after being away from the team for personal reasons. Coach Erik Spoelstra said Jovic was able to participate in practice on Tuesday, according to Weiss (Twitter link).
Miami will welcome back rookie guard Pelle Larsson, who sprained his ankle last week while lifting weights, Chiang adds (Twitter link).
“He was right back at the scene of the crime doing the same routine,” Spoelstra said. “That’s been a big part of his process and a lot of the guys’ process. He finished the routine and he’s fine.”
Central Notes: Giddey, Ball, Jones, Buzelis, Pistons, Sims
Bulls guard Josh Giddey is dealing with a muscle issue on the side of his hand but he’s expected to suit up for the play-in game against Miami on Wednesday, K.C. Johnson of the Chicago Sports Network reports.
“It’s just about managing the pain,” Giddey said, adding that the injury will be addressed in the offseason (Twitter links).
Giddey can’t imagine watching Wednesday’s game in street clothes.
“I’m good to go,” he said, per Julia Poe of the Chicago Tribune. “Play-in game, must-win game, there’s not way I’m going to sit out.”
Lonzo Ball (wrist) and Tre Jones (foot) won’t play.
We have more from the Central Division:
- Bulls rookie Matas Buzelis plans to play for the Lithuanian national team, but he’s unsure about representing his country this offseason. “I’m not sure that I will come this summer. We have problems with the coaches,” he told Johnny Askounis of Eurohoops.net, referring to controversial comments by an assistant coach of the senior national team, Tomas Pacesas. “I have to talk to Jonas [Valanciunas], Domantas [Sabonis] and see what they will do.” Lithuania will participate in the EuroBasket tournament this summer. Sabonis is expected to sit out for personal reasons, while Valanciunas is expected to play.
- The Pistons apparently don’t want Little Caesars Arena to have a large continent of Knicks fans during the first round of the playoffs, Stefan Bondy of the New York Post writes. Potential ticket buyers for upcoming playoff games in Detroit must produce a credit card with a mailing address “located in Michigan and in certain parts of Ohio, Indiana and Ontario, Canada,” according to Ticketmaster. However, a Pistons spokesman told Bondy that the restrictions are intended to target ticket brokers and reduce fraud.
- Bucks coach Doc Rivers is “pretty sure” reserve big man Jericho Sims will be available for their opening-round series against Indiana. Sims participated in a majority of Tuesday’s practice, Eric Nehm of The Athletic tweets. He hasn’t played since March 16 due to a thumb injury.
Central Notes: Cunningham, Pacers, Bulls, Connaughton
Pistons All-Star Cade Cunningham expects a heated battle in the first playoff series of his career, Stefan Bondy of the New York Post relays via an ESPN interview. Detroit will match up against the Knicks in the opening round.
“It’s going to be a war,” he said. “It’s going to be highly physical games — defense, battling it out on the glass, all of those different things. I think it’s going to be a super exciting series for people at home to watch, and it’s going to be a great test for us as far as first round, first series in a long time for the organization. So it’s exciting, and I think it’s going to be a great one for us.”
The Knicks’ game plan will undoubtedly center around making Cunningham uncomfortable.
“He’s had a terrific season. It’s not just [against] us, he’s done it against everybody. We understand that. … With great players you don’t guard them individually, you guard them collectively,” Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau said. “So we have to understand what goes into that.”
We have more from the Central Division:
- The Pacers reached the 50-win mark with the biggest comeback in franchise history, The Associated Press reports. They erased a 27-point deficit for a 126-118 victory over Cleveland in double overtime on Sunday. Both teams sat out most of their rotation players. Over the game’s final 18:05, Indiana’s Quenton Jackson, Enrique Freeman, RayJ Dennis, Tony Bradley and Johnny Furphy outscored Cleveland 53-24.
- The Chicago Tribune’s Julia Poe reveals her seven takeaways from the Bulls’ regular season, including the emergence of Josh Giddey, the building of a young core, and the realization that Lonzo Ball cannot be a building block. Chicago hosts Miami in the play-in tournament on Wednesday.
- Pat Connaughton had a career day in the Bucks’ regular-season finale, pouring in 43 points in an overtime victory against Detroit. “I just wanted to win the game,” Connaughton said, per Ben Steele of the Milwaukee Journal. “Unfortunately we didn’t do it in regulation, which I’m sure brought some entertainment value for ESPN and everything. Which was fun.” Connaughton holds a $9.42MM player option on his contract for next season.
Central Notes: Mitchell, Ball, Jones, Giddey, Giannis, Furphy
Donovan Mitchell is missing his fourth consecutive game on Sunday due to a sprained left ankle, but the Cavaliers remain confident their star guard will be ready to go when the team begins its first-round playoff series next weekend, writes Joe Reedy of The Associated Press.
Mitchell conducted a full workout at the Cavs’ training facility on Saturday and worked out on the court ahead of Sunday’s game vs. Indiana, Reedy notes.
“I think he’ll be full on with practice. We’re going to have to scrimmage at some point, probably inter-squad with refs, so he’ll participate in that,” head coach Kenny Atkinson said. “The most important thing is how we build him up with the ankle rehab and then conditioning.”
Here’s more from around the Central:
- Despite the fact that Lonzo Ball hasn’t played since February 28 due to a right wrist sprain, Bulls head coach Billy Donovan said he’d be willing to use the point guard in this week’s play-in game(s) if he’s healthy enough to return. As K.C. Johnson of the Chicago Sports Network tweets, Ball would be on a “short leash” in that scenario, per Donovan.
- As for the Bulls‘ other injured guards, Tre Jones (left foot sprain) remains in a walking boot and doesn’t appear close to returning, but there’s “high-level optimism” that Josh Giddey (right wrist tendinopathy) will be available to play on Wednesday vs. Miami, even though his wrist is still bothering him (Twitter links via Johnson).
- After appearing in just three of 11 playoff games in 2023 and 2024, star forward Giannis Antetokounmpo will enter this year’s postseason healthy and having played some of his best basketball as of late — he has averaged 31.8 points, 12.0 rebounds, and 11.8 assists per game in six April outings, all Bucks wins. “He’s doing everything,” head coach Doc Rivers said of Antetokounmpo on Friday, according to Eric Nehm of The Athletic. “And that’s what’s so special about him.”
- With the Pacers‘ playoff seed already clinched, rookie wing Johnny Furphy set new career highs on Friday in points (17) and minutes played (32) while also throwing down an impressive dunk in the second quarter of a loss to Orlando (Twitter video link). Furphy figures to only play garbage-time minutes in the playoffs, but head coach Rick Carlisle likes what he has seen from the first-year swingman, per Dustin Dopirak of The Indianapolis Star. “He’s just a pure competitor,” Carlisle said. “Everything about him is pure. He doesn’t have a selfish bone in his body. Does everything hard. Does everything with the right spirit.”
How Giddey/Caruso Trade Has Become Win-Win Deal
Josh Giddey faced his former team for the first time back in October, when the Bulls hosted the Thunder during the first week of the regular season. But Monday’s contest represented the first time that Giddey had returned to Oklahoma City since the two teams completed the trade sending him to Chicago in exchange for Alex Caruso last June.
Giddey was a former lottery pick who had started all 210 of the regular season games he played for the Thunder through his first three NBA seasons, but his unreliable three-point shot and inconsistent defense resulted in him being pulled from the starting five during the second round of the playoffs last spring. He was traded about a month later.
“No player wants to be in the position where you’re the one that’s getting adjusted to in the playoffs,” Giddey said ahead of his return to Oklahoma City, per Paul Sullivan of The Chicago Tribune. “That was a tough pill for me to swallow, but it was probably what I needed at that point of my career. It’s better to learn that lesson as you get deeper into your career.
“Looking back in hindsight, it was probably the best thing for me. Most of the time you feel like, ‘Oh, you don’t want to go through that.’ But … they made the right decision in what they did, in terms of the playoffs, that whole series, and matchup-wise they did it for the right reasons. I don’t ever look back in anger or whatever towards OKC. I had nothing but great things to say about OKC.”
Given that Giddey was coming off a playoff demotion and Caruso had just earned his second consecutive All-Defensive nod, the trade was widely viewed as a steal for Thunder general manager Sam Presti, with fans and analysts alike calling out the Bulls for not getting more in return for one of their top trade chips.
However, as Joe Mussatto of The Oklahoman writes, Presti didn’t necessarily view it that way. His comments at the time of the deal suggested that he hadn’t really wanted to move Giddey and only did so because the former No. 6 overall pick asked about the possibility of a trade after he was informed that he’d likely be coming off the bench in 2024/25. According to Mussatto, Giddey’s play in Chicago during the second half of this season has shown that Presti was right to be hesitant.
Since the All-Star break, Giddey has averaged 21.3 points, 10.1 rebounds, and 8.9 assists per game with a .507/.470/.805 shooting line, leading the Bulls to a winning record during that stretch and bumping his full-season averages to 14.2 PPG, 7.8 RPG, and 7.0 APG on .464/.376/.776 shooting. Giddey’s usage rate, which was 19.9% prior to Chicago’s deadline-week trade of Zach LaVine, has jumped to 24.4% since then and the fourth-year guard has thrived in his increased offensive role.
The Thunder believed Giddey was capable of playing like this — in the press release announcing the trade, Presti referred to him as having “All-Star potential.” But Presti’s front office knew it was unlikely to happen in Oklahoma City, where the Thunder were at their best with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander serving as the team’s lead ball-handler.
Caruso’s offensive numbers this season (6.9 points and 2.6 assists per game on .447/.354/.814 shooting) pale in comparison to the ones Giddey are putting up, and the veteran combo guard is playing a relatively modest rotation role, averaging fewer than 20 minutes per game. But his defensive impact has been exactly what the Thunder were hoping for.
Oklahoma City’s 106.0 defensive rating leads the NBA by a wide margin and Caruso has played a key role in that unit’s success. Among players who have appeared in at least 40 games and logged at least 500 total minutes, only Dyson Daniels has averaged more steals per 36 minutes (3.3) than Caruso (2.9). And Caruso is actually slightly ahead of Daniels in deflections per 36 minutes (6.4 to 6.3).
Nearly a year after the trade was finalized, it looks like a clear win-win, according to Joel Lorenzi of The Oklahoman and Rylan Stiles of SI.com. The Thunder got the type of role player they needed, while the Bulls landed their potential long-term point guard.
It seems like the deal should be a win-win for the two players involved as well — Caruso signed a four-year, $81MM extension in December, while Giddey has taken on the sort of primary play-making role that best suits him and appears poised to cash in as a restricted free agent this summer.
As Lorenzi points out, there can sometimes be hard feelings or bitterness when a player returns to his former home city for the first time, but there was none of that on display on Monday when Giddey played his first game as a visitor in OKC, a testament to the fact that everyone involved was happy with last June’s one-for-one trade.
It’s still fair to wonder if the Bulls could’ve extracted an extra asset or two from the Thunder in their negotiations last June or what the return might have been if they’d sought a return heavier on draft picks. But there’s certainly no guarantee that any of the other deals Chicago could have made would have netted the team a more valuable potential cornerstone than Giddey.