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Trade Rumors: Butler, Suns, Turner, Johnson, Mathurin, Lakers

January 30th, 2025 at 5:26pm CST by Rory Maher

Although the Heat have lowered their asking price for Jimmy Butler, they have yet to find a trade package they like, according to Barry Jackson of The Miami Herald (Twitter links), who hears from a source that the Suns remain the most “aggressive” team in pursuit of the six-time All-Star. However, Miami still has no interest in taking on Bradley Beal and his no trade-clause.

Jackson reiterates that the Heat are “determined” to move Butler, but if they’re unable to before next Thursday’s deadline, they’ll still have some options in the offseason. Of course, that scenario glosses over the issue of having to deal with more Butler-related drama for the rest of the 2024/25 campaign.

According to Kevin O’Connor of Yahoo Sports, league executives keep circling back to the Grizzlies as a possible dark horse suitor for Butler, even though they were warned by his camp not to trade for him.

Here are some more trade rumors from around the NBA:

  • Both Dan Woike of The Los Angeles Times and veteran NBA reporter Marc Stein (Substack link) hear the Pacers are receiving trade inquiries on Myles Turner, though there’s skepticism around the league that Indiana will move its starting center. As both writers point out, the Pacers have been surging up the Eastern Conference standings and are determined to make a strong playoff push, so trading Turner might hurt the team’s chemistry. According to Stein, Indiana would want at least another starting-caliber center in return for Turner to even contemplate moving the impending free agent.
  • Indiana’s improved play of late might make the Pacers reluctant to part with significant assets to acquire Nets forward Cameron Johnson, according to Stein. Rival teams think the Pacers may need to trade some of their wing depth — either by next week or the offseason — to free up their books to re-sign Turner in free agency. With that in mind, Bennedict Mathurin could be worth monitoring, but Indiana values him — Woike hears the Pacers would want a player it likes plus a first-round pick in exchange for the 22-year-old, who was selected sixth overall in the 2022 draft.
  • Woike’s story is largely focused on the Lakers and their trade options. As Woike explains, while the front office is open to trading both of the team’s available first-round picks, coming up with “realistic” scenarios is tricky for a number of reasons — including the high asking price for starting centers. For example, the Jazz may not be willing to trade Walker Kessler even if the Lakers offered both first-rounders, according to Woike, who highlights several other possible trade candidates in his story, including Malcolm Brogdon, whom the Wizards may be willing to part with for second-round draft capital.
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Trade Rumors: Nets, Fox, Butler, Bucks, LaVine, Lakers, Turner

January 29th, 2025 at 7:25am CST by Luke Adams

The Nets have interest in Kings guard De’Aaron Fox and view him as a potential trade target, but they haven’t given up on the idea of eventually landing Giannis Antetokounmpo, according to Brian Lewis of The New York Post, who describes the Bucks star as Brooklyn’s “white whale.”

A desire to preserve their most valuable trade assets for Antetokounmpo if there’s even the slightest chance that he’ll become available would complicate the Nets’ efforts to make a deal for Fox, Lewis notes. It’s also unclear whether the 2023 All-Star would have interest in signing a long-term contract in Brooklyn, though the presence of head coach Jordi Fernandez – a former Kings assistant – would presumably work in the Nets’ favor.

Brooklyn is one of many teams around the NBA with interest in Fox — Shams Charania of ESPN said during a late-night appearance on SportsCenter on Tuesday (YouTube link) that the Kings had already gotten “dozens” of calls on the star guard.

The one team consistently linked to Fox is San Antonio. Charania confirmed during his SportsCenter appearance that the Spurs are “atop (Fox’s) list of preferred destinations.”

Here are a few more trade rumors from around the NBA:

  • Checking on the Jimmy Butler situation, Marc Stein of The Stein Line (Substack link) says his sources remain skeptical about the possibility of the Grizzlies acquiring the Heat forward, who reportedly doesn’t want to end up in Memphis.
  • On the other hand, Stein continues to hear whispers about Milwaukee as a possible Butler suitor, noting that Khris Middleton and Bobby Portis are the kinds of win-now players on short-term deals who may appeal to Miami. Whether or not they make a play for Butler, the Bucks are considered “as determined as any team” to make a pre-deadline deal in the hopes of beefing up the supporting cast around stars Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard, Stein adds.
  • K.C. Johnson of Chicago Sports Network (YouTube link; hat tip to BrewHoop) confirms that the Bucks have interest in Bulls star Zach LaVine, which was speculated last week. However, with Phoenix guard Bradley Beal said to be uninterested in waiving his no-trade clause to go to Chicago, that likely eliminates one potential multi-team scenario in which LaVine could end up in Milwaukee.
  • With the Bulls seeking a first-round pick for Nikola Vucevic and the Wizards asking for a protected first-rounder for Jonas Valanciunas, the Lakers are exploring other center options and have discussed internally whether it makes sense to put both of their tradable first-round picks (2029 and 2031) on the table for Pacers big man Myles Turner, sources tell Anthony Irwin of ClutchPoints. It’s unclear if Indiana would actually move its starting center, but there has reportedly been some chatter around the league about whether the Pacers will be comfortable meeting Turner’s asking price when he reaches unrestricted free agency in July.
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NBA Announces Player Pool For 2025 Rising Stars Event

January 28th, 2025 at 2:25pm CST by Luke Adams

The NBA has officially revealed the 10 rookies, 11 sophomores, and seven G League players who have been selected to take part in the 2025 Rising Stars event at All-Star weekend in San Francisco next month.

The following players made the cut, as voted on by NBA assistant coaches (rookies and sophomores) and selected by the league office (G Leaguers):

Rookies

Sophomores

G League Players

* Note: Players marked with asterisks are on standard or two-way contracts with NBA teams.

As usual, the Rising Stars event will consist of four teams and three games. The seven G League players will comprise one team, while the other 21 players will be drafted to three squads on February 4.

The four teams will be split into two first-round matchups and the winners of those two games will face one another for the Rising Stars championship. The two semifinals will be played to a target score of 40 points, while the final will be played to a target score of 25 points.

All three contests will take place on Friday, February 14 as part of All-Star weekend’s opening night. The winning team will compete on Sunday in a similar four-team tournament, with the three other rosters made up of NBA All-Stars.

A handful of injury replacements will be necessary, with McCain, Lively, and Brandon Miller among the players who won’t be available to suit up. Additionally, since players selected as All-Stars won’t play in the Rising Stars event, Wembanyama will almost certainly need to be replaced.

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Southeast Notes: Okogie, Butler, Hawks, Bitadze

January 27th, 2025 at 1:14pm CST by Luke Adams

Since Phoenix acquired Nick Richards from Charlotte earlier this month, most of the focus has been on how the big man is helping the Suns. But the deal has also had a positive effect on the Hornets, according to Roderick Boone of The Charlotte Observer, who says veteran swingman Josh Okogie has been just what the team needs.

Okogie set new personal season highs with 16 points and 10 rebounds on Friday vs. Portland. He also has 11 steals in his first four games as a Hornet and has an eye-popping +28.0 net rating in his 83 minutes on the court. His impact has extended beyond his statistical output — the 26-year-old has earned praise from head coach Charles Lee for his vocal leadership.

“Love the impact that he’s given our team,” Lee said. “No. 1, he just has a great feel for the league, the game, what the game asks of you, the competitiveness. He’s already added a vocal element to our team, which I think we can definitely use. When you have a young team, and as much as I talk, they get tired of hearing me probably. So, it’s nice when their teammates speak up and have things to say.”

It’s possible the Hornets will look to flip Okogie, who is on a pseudo-expiring contract (his $7.75MM salary for next season is non-guaranteed), to a new team at next week’s deadline in order to expand their return from trading Richards. But Okogie has fit in nicely and sounds enthusiastic about the idea of finishing the season in Charlotte.

“It’s been fun,” he said. “It’s a good group with a lot of energy, plays free, plays loose and just likes to have fun. It’s kind of refreshing to go out there and just play as hard and that be what the coaches and the organization (are) trying to implement in the players.”

Here’s more from around the Southeast:

  • Within his latest trade rumor round-up at Substack, Marc Stein of The Stein Line lists the Hornets and Wizards as a couple more of the teams known to be interested in facilitating a trade involving Heat forward Jimmy Butler, alongside Toronto and Detroit, among others. While Phoenix has been the team most consistently identified as a suitor for Butler, rival teams are still wondering if the Bucks might get involved in the bidding, Stein adds.
  • Rookie forward Zaccharie Risacher, who has missed the Hawks‘ past six games due to a left adductor strain, has been upgraded to questionable for Monday’s contest in Minnesota, the team announced (via Twitter). Big man Larry Nance Jr. is also listed as questionable to suit up after returning to action on Saturday from a 12-game absence for right hand surgery. While Nance has returned to the court and Risacher appears to be on the verge of joining him, Atlanta will be without Trae Young, who has been ruled out for Monday’s contest due to right hamstring tightness (Twitter link via Brad Rowland of Locked on Hawks). De’Andre Hunter is listed as questionable too as he continues to deal with the illness that forced him to miss Saturday’s game.
  • Magic center Goga Bitadze has been out since January 12 but appears on the verge of clearing the NBA’s concussion protocol. He said he feels “good to go” for Monday’s game in Miami, as Jason Beede of The Orlando Sentinel relays (Twitter links). “Obviously, you know, it’s going to be probably be a little dusty. Is that how you say it? Or rusty?” Bitadze said. “… Well, it’s going to be dusty and rusty. We’re going to see. First game back. (I’m) really excited.”
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Lakers Rumors: Vucevic, Poeltl, Valanciunas, Kessler, Finney-Smith

January 27th, 2025 at 12:38pm CST by Luke Adams

Lakers star Anthony Davis told ESPN’s Shams Charania last week that he believes the team needs to add another center, but league sources inform Marc Stein of The Stein Line (Substack link) that Bulls center Nikola Vucevic and Raptors center Jakob Poeltl aren’t viewed as likely targets for Los Angeles.

As Stein explains, the Bulls continue to seek a first-round pick in exchange for Vucevic, while the Raptors’ asking price for Poeltl – a player they prefer to keep – is thought to be even higher than that. Both players are also earning in the $20MM range, which may be more than the Lakers want to spend on another big man, Stein adds.

Wizards center Jonas Valanciunas, who has a $9.9MM salary and is unlikely to cost more than second-round draft capital, still appears to be the most “gettable” big man on the trade market for the Lakers, according to Stein, though he cautions that there’s still no “substantial momentum” toward a deal between Los Angeles and Washington.

Here’s more on the Lakers:

  • Shams Charania of ESPN (Twitter video link) said during an appearance on NBA Countdown on Saturday that the Lakers have attempted to trade for Jazz center Walker Kessler “many times,” but haven’t been able to meet Utah’s “steep” asking price. “I’m sure they’ll keep trying,” Charania said. However, Stein wrote today that Kessler is believed to be “as close to unavailable as it gets.”
  • While the Lakers remain on the lookout for additional reinforcements on the trade market, last month’s acquisition of Dorian Finney-Smith has been a success so far. As Dan Woike writes for The Los Angeles Times, Finney-Smith has made both a “tangible and intangible” impact during his first month in L.A., giving the team toughness and three-point shooting on the court and quickly becoming a locker room favorite off the court. “Doe is comfortable with who he is — like the player, the person,” head coach J.J. Redick said. “And in my experience… people that are like that, people gravitate towards that. People want to follow that. That’s what Doe is.” The Lakers are outscoring opponents by 10.7 points per 100 possessions with Finney-Smith on the court.
  • A week ago, LeBron James said the Lakers have little “room for error.” Since then, the team has gone 3-0, outscoring its opponents by 54 points in those three games. With forward Jarred Vanderbilt back in action and several other role players giving L.A. good minutes, Khobi Price of The Orange Country Register considers whether the club’s margin for error has widened.
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Wizards’ Kuzma Vows To Be More Aggressive, Less Inclined To ‘Fit In’

January 27th, 2025 at 7:47am CST by Luke Adams

Wizards forward Kyle Kuzma had his best game of 2024/25 on Saturday in Phoenix, registering season highs in points (30) and rebounds (11) as Washington outscored the Suns by four points during his 34 minutes of action.

After the game, he told reporters, including Josh Robbins of The Athletic and Varun Shankar of The Washington Post, that a change in mindset fueled his big night.

“I think today I just decided to be myself and not really just try to fit into everything that we’re doing here, and just really played in the moment,” Kuzma said.

Asked what he meant by playing “in the moment” and not trying to fit in, Kuzma continued, “I mean just not trying to fit into what we’re trying to do here. Just being more assertive, demanding the ball, not just going out there and trying to let people develop. Just playing my game.”

Kuzma is in the midst of arguably his worst season since he entered the NBA in 2017 — even after Saturday’s big night, his scoring average (14.6 points per game) is well below his career rate, and his shooting percentages of 42.3% on field goal tries and 28.0% on three-pointers are career lows. He has also battled injuries, appearing in just 27 of Washington’s 44 games so far.

Kuzma’s down year has coincided with an increased push from the Wizards to develop their young prospects, including second-year forward Bilal Coulibaly and rookies Alex Sarr, Carlton Carrington, and Kyshawn George. As a result, Kuzma has taken a step back in the offensive game plan, averaging just 13.7 field goal attempts per game, his lowest mark since arriving in D.C. On Saturday, he took 24 shots from the field.

“I think I’ve tried to fit in,” Kuzma said, per Robbins, when asked if he’s been “holding back” this season. “I think I’ve tried to help the young guys build confidence and do their thing. I think (Saturday) I was just really the most assertive I’ve been all year.”

Kuzma added that it “sometimes” feels as if being assertive and helping the Wizards’ young players develop are mutually exclusive goals.

“Only because there’s certain positions on the floor where we run plays,” he said. “Probably (in) past years, I might have been in those, you know?”

Increased usage for Kuzma could cut into the opportunities Washington’s youngsters are getting, but Robbins notes that those young Wizards still got their fair share of shot attempts on Saturday, with Coulibaly, Sarr, Carrington, and George combining to go 15-of-34. Shankar also points out that Kuzma taking on more offensive responsibilities could reduce the fatigue that the Wizards’ rookies are experiencing in the midst of their first 82-game season.

Of course, it’s also possible that balancing aggression with mentorship isn’t an issue Kuzma will have to deal with for much longer. He’s considered a candidate to be traded before next Thursday’s deadline — in that scenario, he’d likely end up on a playoff team not as concerned with player development. Still, he has two more years left on his contract after this season and his decline in production will reduce his appeal on the trade market, so the Wizards may choose to hang onto him for now.

According to Robbins, when asked on Saturday whether he intends to continue being aggressive going forward or resume trying to “fit in,” Kuzma considered the question for a moment, then replied, “Aggressive. Yeah, aggressive now.”

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Trade Rumors: Turner, Heat, Brown, Raptors, Clippers

January 25th, 2025 at 2:16pm CST by Luke Adams

Asked on a live stream on Friday whether the Pacers might be open to trading center Myles Turner, who is on an expiring contract, Jovan Buha of The Athletic (YouTube link) said he has heard a “little bit of chatter” about that possibility.

However, based on his wording, it sounds like Buha is just referring to speculation from rival executives who are curious about whether Indiana will be able to pay Turner in free agency this summer, rather than any concrete signs the club is considering making him available. The 28-year-old won’t become eligible for an extension before reaching unrestricted free agency in July, so if Indiana isn’t confident about its ability to re-sign him, hanging onto him would carry the risk of losing him for nothing in the summer.

I’d be very surprised if the Pacers entertain the idea of trading Turner by February 6, given that he’s the starting center on a team that has played its best basketball of the season in recent weeks (9-2 in January).

Still, it’s worth noting that Indiana’s front office showed a year ago that it’s willing to trade a regular contributor if the team doesn’t expect to be able to sign him beyond the current season. After he turned down an extension offer from the Pacers, Buddy Hield was shipped to Philadelphia at last season’s deadline, despite the fact that he was averaging 25.7 minutes per game and had started 28 of 52 contests for Indiana.

Here are a few more trade-related notes and rumors from around the NBA:

  • Within his latest dispatch at The Stein Line (Substack link), Jake Fischer explores what the Heat are looking for in a Jimmy Butler trade, reiterating a few points that have been reported elsewhere, including the fact that Miami is prioritizing cap flexibility and short-term contracts, as well as players who can help the team make the playoffs this season.
  • To that end, Fischer cites sources who say that the Heat have registered some interest in Raptors wing Bruce Brown, who is on a $23MM expiring contract, and confirms that Toronto is widely viewed as a team interested in facilitating a larger deal. “They want to get involved in any Jimmy Butler trade,” one rival general manager told Fischer. Wizards guard Malcolm Brogdon, who is on an expiring $22.5MM contract, is another example of the type of proven veteran on a favorable contract who might appeal to Miami, Fischer adds.
  • After creating some cap flexibility last offseason when they let Paul George walk in free agency, the Clippers remain “keen on keeping their books clean,” according to Fischer, who says the team has conveyed to rivals that it’s not eager to take on long-term salary in pre-deadline trades.
  • The Athletic’s NBA writers take a closer look at all 30 teams, considering whether the best approach to the deadline for each of those clubs is to buy, sell, or stand pat.
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Southeast Notes: Okongwu, Young, Johnson, Poole, Smith Jr.

January 25th, 2025 at 10:41am CST by Tristan Tucker

In the three games leading up to his promotion to the starting lineup, Hawks center Onyeka Okongwu averaged 18.3 points and 15.7 rebounds. According to HoopsHype’s Michael Scotto, his call-up to the opening five was a reward for his strong play and an opportunity to see what he could do as a starter.

Okongwu is seen as part of Atlanta’s young core headlined by Jalen Johnson, Dyson Daniels and Zaccharie Risacher, who are all under the age of 23. The big man in the first year of a four-year, $61.98MM contract.

We have more from the Southeast Division:

  • The Hawks are establishing an identity this season as they fight for a spot in the playoffs. According to The Athletic’s Jared Weiss, that’s been partially fueled by head coach Quin Snyder working with star guard Trae Young to adjust his place in the offense to be more synergetic with Johnson’s emergence as a play-maker. “We’ve been intentional about that. It’s not just kind of a dream,” Snyder said. “[Young] can’t do this by himself and he knows that. No player can frankly. So figuring out the ways he can be efficient has been the idea, and he’s been the one looking at that and thinking about it and making those plays.“
  • Johnson injured his shoulder on Thursday against the Raptors, leaving in the second and quarter and not returning. He’s listed as out for Saturday’s game against Toronto, according to the Hawks (Twitter link). Being without Johnson for an extended period of time would make life worse for Atlanta for obvious reasons, but they’re also facing a tough upcoming schedule, Lauren L. Williams of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution writes.
  • Jordan Poole is averaging career highs in points per game (21.4), three-point percentage (39.9%) and assists per game (4.8) for the Wizards. In an interview with Sportskeeda’s Mark Medina, the former Warrior talked about his best individual season. “I definitely think that I’m an All-Star,” Poole said. “I play at an All-Star level. A lot of it can be political and situational. But performance-wise, I think that I’m an All-Star.“
  • Second-year guard Nick Smith Jr. might be earning himself an extended stay in the Hornets‘ starting lineup, Shane Connuck of The Charlotte Observer writes. Smith is earning more minutes due to Brandon Miller‘s season-ending injury. “[Smith] is more than a scorer,” coach Charles Lee said. “He’s a player. He’s a great play-maker, and we’re just seeing it.” The 27th pick in the 2023 draft is averaging 11.8 points in his last eight games (four starts) after registering 3.1 PPG in his first 15 outings.
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Southeast Notes: Wizards Core, Magic, Hunter, Capela, Heat

January 23rd, 2025 at 5:11pm CST by Tristan Tucker

Success for the Wizards this season isn’t necessarily going to be measured in wins or losses. Their young core being enough to lift them to a postseason berth would have been greatly exciting, but an accelerated timeline isn’t all that common. Instead, as Josh Robbins of The Athletic writes, this Washington season was always going to be about seeing which young players are worth building around.

The Wizards have dedicated their season to investing huge minutes to four players who are under the age of 22: Bilal Coulibaly, Alex Sarr, Bub Carrington and Kyshawn George.

“I think it’s great that they’re going through it,” coach Brian Keefe said. “That’s how you learn. You get out there, and you go through it. You experience it. All these things are new learning experiences.”

We have more from the Southeast Division:

  • The Magic feel confident for the second half of the season with the team getting healthier overall, Jason Beede of the Orlando Sentinel writes. Orlando recently saw Paolo Banchero return from an extended absence and Franz Wagner is set to return on Thursday. “It’s been long overdue,” Gary Harris said of the team getting healthier. “That’s something that we’ve been anxious for. The injuries that have happened this season haven’t been ideal, but we’ve been able to tread water and keep our ahead afloat.“
  • Orlando lost its last four games and six of the past seven. The looming returns will obviously help matters, but the Magic are also looking to the past for confidence, Beede writes in a separate post. The Magic began Banchero’s rookie season at 5-20 before going on a 29-24 stretch in the middle of the season. Last year the team slumped before winning 13 of its following 16 games after getting players back from injury.
  • De’Andre Hunter erupted this season for the Hawks in his sixth season, averaging a career-high 19.1 points and 40.5% clip from three off the bench. He explained what has contributed to his breakout year to HoopHype’s Michael Scotto in a recent interview. “I think we’re playing a lot differently this year,” Hunter said. “We’re definitely moving the ball a lot more. We’re getting out in transition a lot more. As far as my role, coming off the bench has been a different role. I think I’m looked at as the playmaker or scorer in that second unit. That’s the expectation. I think I can score pretty well, so it’s not too hard for me.“
  • Hawks center Clint Capela was added to the injury report Thursday and is out against the Raptors with knee soreness, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Lauren L. Williams (Twitter link). Capela has played in two games since becoming a full-time bench player, averaging 14.0 points and 9.5 rebounds. Capela continues to be monitored on the trade market by rival teams, per Scotto.
  • The Heat‘s Thursday game against the Bucks was delayed by one hour due to icy conditions in New Orleans that delayed the Bucks’ flight to Milwaukee, according to the Miami Herald’s Barry Jackson (Twitter link). Tip is now set for 8:30 p.m. EST as opposed to its previously scheduled 7:30 start time.
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Pacific Notes: Green, Poole, DeRozan, Nurkic, Finney-Smith

January 22nd, 2025 at 11:00pm CST by Arthur Hill

Draymond Green offered another apology over the weekend for the punch he threw at former Warriors teammate Jordan Poole during training camp in October of 2022, but he also indicated that he wants to stop talking about the incident, writes Ohm Youngmisuk of ESPN.

The latest apology came after Poole and the Wizards visited Golden State on Saturday. Asked about his relationship with his former team following a positive reception from the Bay Area crowd, Poole said he loves “most of those guys over there.” Green understood the message from Poole and posted “I really am sorry” on social media.

“I responded because it’s been three years,” Green said Wednesday on the podcast he hosts with Baron Davis. “Like, let’s move on. We’ve moved on. I really am sorry. That statement [by Poole] was kind of like it was looking for some sympathy … kind of keep on make me out to be the bad guy. Move on, bro. It is what it is. I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have punched him. But it happened. Let’s move on.”

The punch marked a turning point for the Warriors, who were coming off an NBA title in 2022. They weren’t able to repair the chemistry of the team, and Poole was traded to Washington after the season.

There’s more from the Pacific Division:

  • DeMar DeRozan came to Sacramento to play for Mike Brown, but the Kings fired their head coach in late December. In an interview with Marc J. Spears of Andscape, DeRozan said it’s a first for him in his long NBA career. “That was the first time I ever dealt with the firing of a coach in the middle of the season,” DeRozan said. “It’s new for a lot of the guys who played for him for multiple years. It’s much different from my standpoint of still being new having to adjust to that. It’s hard to process it when you’re still going through it.”
  • Suns coach Mike Budenholzer doesn’t believe “benched” is the proper word to use with veteran center Jusuf Nurkic (Twitter video link from Duane Rankin of The Arizona Republic). Nurkic was removed from the starting lineup on January 6 and hasn’t played since the following night. He’s currently getting back into game shape in Phoenix following a bout with the flu. “It’s a long season,” Budenholzer said. “He didn’t play a couple of games and now he’s been sick. He’s home reconditioning. We’ll see how he comes through when we go back.”
  • The Lakers have relaxed their minutes restriction for Dorian Finney-Smith, whose playing time has been limited by an ankle issue since he arrived in a trade with Brooklyn last month, per Khobi Price of The Orange County Register. Coach J.J. Redick talked Tuesday about the difficulty of getting Finney-Smith comfortable with his new teammates. “It’s been hard because he’s been on a minutes restriction since we got him, so just having to kind of navigate that and try to save him, save those like four or five minutes for the end of the game, it’s been challenging,” Redick said. “We got word [on Tuesday] that we can up his minutes from 20 to 24. So that helps, that helps.”
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