The Suns were “very” close to acquiring Kyrie Irving on draft day, reports John Gambadoro of Arizona Sports 98.7 (via Twitter). Irving’s trade request reportedly didn’t happen until early July, but it appears the Cavaliers were having discussions about their star point guard as they explored ways to upgrade their roster in June, before he formally asked to be moved.
According to Gambadoro (Twitter links), the Suns still have the pieces to land Irving, but any deal would require the team to part with Eric Bledsoe, Josh Jackson, and more. Gambadoro isn’t sure exactly what else the Cavs would ask for in addition to Bledsoe and Jackson, but the price may be too steep for Phoenix.
Here’s more on Irving:
- According to ESPN’s Zach Lowe and Brian Windhorst on The Lowe Post podcast, the Pacers offered Paul George for Kyrie Irving around the time of the draft (hat tip to Dan Feldman of Pro Basketball Talk). Cleveland likely wouldn’t have accepted George straight up for Irving even after he made his trade request, given George’s expiring contract, but if they’d known Kyrie wanted out at that time, it could have made those discussions with Indiana much more interesting.
- The Cavaliers have heard from virtually every team in the league in some capacity, though some are more interested in Irving than others, a source tells Steve Kyler of Basketball Insiders. According to Kyler, the situation is unlikely to get resolved quickly.
- Kyler also suggests that Cleveland would like to reduce its projected tax bill in an Irving deal, with one source predicting that any team acquiring Irving will have to take on at least Iman Shumpert‘s contract.
- Joe Vardon of Cleveland.com suggests that LeBron James is “eager to see [Irving] off,” but the four-time MVP denied that report in a tweet, suggesting that it needs “another source.”
- Appearing on The Rich Eisen Show on Monday, NBA commissioner Adam Silver suggested that the Irving drama in Cleveland is “not necessarily the kind of drama that the league wants.” Chris Fedor of Cleveland.com has the details and the quotes from Silver, who called the situation “upsetting.”
- Here are several of Monday’s Irving-related notes and updates.
Irving unfollowed Lebron on IG. House of Highlights which is an account associated with bleacher report just posted a video. Not that that’s super relevant but it’s just a fun fact.
Seems petty, shows you where Kyrie’s maturity level is at too if he’s thinking “I need to unfollow this guy on IG”. Granted, we don’t know what has happened behind the scenes, but I’d find it hard to believe LBJ hasn’t done a lot to help Kyrie’s game, in terms of NBA IQ and winning.
The Suns sounded like they were replacing a peg with a peg if they did that deal. It’s funny, that I still remember someone calling up a sports talk show and the caller using the ‘peg’ line
As for me, I still think Simmons for Irving would be a great idea! At least that is how I feel about it
Plus, let James mentor Simmons, they are buds!!
Seems obvious he’s a goner but the question is where he goes and what they get for him
Boston seems like the most viable option if they will relinquish one of their top picks, Brown, or Tatum along with Crowder and a little more salary. Maybe IT, Crowder or Smart, and the LAL/SAC pick. You’d have to include one or two other guys to make salaries work. Kyrie would be an upgrade at PG and I just don’t think Kyrie-IT is a feasible backcourt. I’d love to keep IT and would max him, but I’d rather have Kyrie if you can hold onto Brown, Tatum, and the Nets pick. Everything else is on the table, and those assets are too in the right offer. Maybe they could trade Horford and the Nets pick for Kyrie and TT? I forget what TT makes. Maybe throw in Crowder too if salaries have to match.
Tbh I fell like IT is good enough that it wouldn’t be worth it for Boston. Not saying they wouldn’t upgrade, but that any depth added with IT might not be a good idea. Boston has a good thing going.
Yeah. But players with Kyrie Irving’s pure offensive talent don’t come around all the time. He’s a special talent controlled for multiple years at about 2/3 of what Thomas will likely cost. The depth does get a little thin at that point, but if the Horford + picks deal happened, they would increase depth, give Cleveland a 2 big system that would screw with GS, because him and Love are capable defensively and would provide something they would have difficulty guarding on offense, and they could make at least one more run. Boston could still move IT if they aren’t comfortable with that backcourt. Actually I wonder if Detroit would do IT for Bradley and a first. That would be super weird but if they move Jackson and Boston gets Irving that makes a lot of sense. Van Gundy seems to love Galloway.
Bradley won’t be able to be traded again for 60 days I believe.
That’s a 2k rule…
If I’m the Cavs, I’d want IT, Jaylen Brown, Abdel Nader, the Celtics 2018 1st round pick, and possibly their 2019 1st round pick as well or instead of those 2 picks, the Lakers/kings pick…I’d probably want Crowder, but I don’t think he would be included if IT and Jaylen Brown are, and if there are draft picks changing hands. I don’t know if I would do that, if Im Boston, for 2 years of Kyrie. I’d rather hold onto Jaylen Brown. I just don’t see any way Cleveland would move Kyrie to Boston, if he isn’t involved, especially with the injury to IT, and the fact that they’re their current biggest rival in the East
Sounds similar tp what I’m think and posted not that long ago…
My thoughts are:
Kyrie for Crowder, I.Thomas, LA/SAC pick, and Boston’s own pick….
I think that gives not only gives Cleveland back pretty much what they are losing offensively with I. Thomas, but another defensive-minded, versatile #3 – #4 in Crowder, an early pick, and a later first rounder….
In my opinion, that’s probably the best Cleveland is going to be able to get, in terms of that particular combination of players and future assets…
But it ONLY makes sense if Boston is able to hang onto Tatum, Brown, and the Nets pick!! If they give up much more than what I’m suggesting, depth wise, it could really hurt them more than it would help them, for both the present and the future..
Thomas and Irving are close enough in talent I doubt they include more than crowder and a pick
To Cleveland:
Demar Derozan
Jonas Valanciunas
2 first rounders
To Toronto:
Kyrie Irving
Tristan Thompson
Iman shumpert
Admittedly there’s a bunch of reasons this trade never happens, fitting Kyrie and Lowry together being the main one. Oddly even without the first rounders involved the ESPN trade machine shows derozan and JV as being 17 wins more valuable than the package Toronto receives.
I’d give them Kevin Love too if they throw in Lowry. LBJ would walk through them in 4.
This actually makes a lot of sense b/c Derozan and Kyrie have similar defensive issues, and are iso players. Still, I would take Kyrie by a lot, over Derozan, especially at $10 million less. That being said, in this scenario, Cleveland is able to move Thompson and get multiple draft picks. Maybe add Nogueira going to Cleveland, and Richard Jefferson to Toronto
Why do people feel that in the current state of the NBA and considering what similar “bigs” are getting (Biyombo, Mozgof, D. Howard, S. Adams, etc) that Thompson is on a bad contract? Did they overpay at the time? Yes, there wasn’t any other team withing $5 mil per of what Rich Paul was able to get. However, right now is there any doubt that if a similar 26 yo PF/C who is top 5 in ORB and top 15 in TRB would get a similar if not bigger deal?
That being said, that deal with TOR wouldn’t benefit the Cavs as you might think. For what the Cavs need, energy, rebounding and the ability to run the floor, Jonas Valanciunas wouldn’t provide and I think would be more nullified against the GSW. Despite his poor performance this year, I still think I’d rather have TT than Valanciunas.
Also, if Kyrie is gone and D. Rose becomes the starting PG then I would not want both Rose and DeRozan in the same lineup as you have 2 guards (assuming Derozan moves to SG since LBJ plays SF) and neither of them can shoot from outside.
Finally, with or without Irving/DeRozan the Raptors in a weakened East are probably good enough to be a 45-50 win team meaning those picks are most likely going to be in the 20-25 range. Those are not impact pieces although it could help find decent rotation players. But if I’m the Cavs and I’m trading Irving and not sure if LBJ is staying after 2018 then I’d rather try and net higher draft picks with thoughts of an inevitable rebuild.
Thompson is 3-5 million per overpaid
I also don’t understand what you consider to be Kyrie’s value. I did say I agree with you on Kyrie/Derozan. That being said, Kyrie for 2 years isn’t going to get you the world, as we just saw what 2 years of Butler went for, and that was with him openly wanting to stay in Chicago. Everyone knows Kyrie wants out…2 1st round picks in that deal would be good value. I also don’t think Toronto is as good as they’ve been, so I’m not so sure they’re 25th picks…
Jonas would come off the bench, in that scenario…that being said, I agree that I wouldn’t pair Rose and Derozan. Maybe you’d move him to the 3, and start JR, in that scenario.
But ya, I wouldn’t make that deal if I’m Cleveland, b/c of fit, but it probably is the value
I’d take Bledsoe, Jackson, and Chriss plus a 2nd. But they gotta take BACK JRSmith.
No way should Phoenix move Jackson or Chriss
That deal makes no sense for the Suns at all.
I hope Warren, Bledsoe, and Bender plus picks can get it done and we take back shump. Irving-Booker-Jackson-Chriss-Chandler, Ulis-Shump-Dudley-Williams is a solid rotation. Booker and Jackson should be off limits and we would need another 3/4 out of FA afterwards (shabazz? Motiejunas?)
but that’d have to be mid-season
I don’t see why Phoenix would have to give away that excess value, by adding Jackson to Bledsoe, who isn’t that far off from Kyrie in terms of overall impact, obviously even though Kyrie is the better offenaive/iso player, and is 2 years younger. I do wonder if Cleveland might be able to rid themselves of Tristan Thompson and Shumperts contract in a bigger deal with Phoenix…
Cavs get Bledsoe, Chandler, Knight, Dudley, Davon Reed, and the 2018 Heat 1st round pick
Phoenix gets Kyrie, Thompson, Shumpert, Richard Jefferson, Kay Felder? It feels a little light going back to Phoenix though, with them getting the worse of the contract situations in the trade IMO. Thoughts?
Well, Knight tore his acl, so never mind on that one lol
Cleveland Receives
Dwayne Wade
Cameron Payne
Denzel Valentine
2018 1st rd pick unprotected/2020 1st rd pick(top 3 protected)
Bulls Receive
Kyrie Irving
Iman Shumpert
2018 2nd rd pick
Not nearly enough value, even with the 2 draft picks. You’d have to at least add Dunn, and probably something small
Lebron is happy they add his boy Wade they get 2 young unknown guards that can be effective off the bench role players. They add 2 high quality picks that they can either package for players if Lebron stays or help quickly rebuild in the event he bolts. Wade’s contract is off the books next season as well as they won’t have shumperts remainder to try to add pieces next off season.
Bulls get Irving and have Dunn as a backup to continue to develop. You pair Irving and Lavine if healthy as a solid back court and hope they can be in the Anthony Davis sweepstakes, they’ll have the room and the rebuild will be complete.
I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that if LeBron leaves, they would only have like 25 million in cap space, if they renounced his cap hold. If he doesn’t leave, they’re still over the cap
I like Denzel Valentine, and as a Heat fan, I will never argue Dwyane Wade’s value, but in terms of asset management, the deal is light as you proposed it
That’s a really interesting move. Don’t get it from Chicago’s perspective because they moved Butler, if they hadn’t this would make sense for everybody. Fair value though.
I get so frustrated with the media reports and what I feel is an obvious bias against owner Dan Gilbert. The “Letter” aside, Gilbert has been a great owner. He does what you want every owner to do and that is spend money on what the GM says is needed (plus huge investments made in the city of Cleveland). GM and coaching moves aside, the team has had stability. The moves of hiring and firing Mike Brown and David Blatt were obviously done to placate LBJ and maybe even Kyrie/Love (since one of the issues was how Love was being used).
All that being said, the narrative is that Gilbert fired Griffin and that made Irving mad (because it was said they were close) and thus was the reason why he wants a trade. However, what do we know?
a) Irving wanted out as long ago as right after they won a chip in July 2016.
b) Both Gilbert and LBJ probably would’ve objected to the trade of Irving because they’ve been to 3 finals and the idea is to add to what they already have and not subtract or alter dramatically (unless it was for a better star than Love).
c) It was said that Griffin and Gilbert weren’t on the same page as far as the team’s direction. I’ve heard several accounts of what the main issue was supposedly. We all heard that Irving voiced his desire to be traded earlier and had a great communicative relationship with Griffin. The stories I’ve heard that prior to this year’s draft, Irving asked Griffin to work on a trade to get him out of Cleveland. Allegedly, he went to Gilbert seeking approval of a deal with the Suns involving Bledsoe and come combination of young players + 1st rnd picks. Gilbert was against it and wanted to keep the team together in terms of LBJ and Kyrie + Love or another star Love might net them.
So what’s more likely? The owner of a team that has invested a HUGE amount of money into team salary (paying lux tax that far, far eclipses what any other NBA team has paid in history by a multiple) INCLUDING players like Smith, Thompson and Korver who’s ONLY value to the team is if part of a NBA title championship team, would risk returning back to the finals by considering a trade for either LBJ (who he couldn’t move anyway) or his 2nd best player who’s on a team friendly contract and just had his best year as a NBA player at age 25? OR that the GM Griffin was trying to appease a star player (Irving) he had a personnel relationship AND placate his bigger priority LBJ (placating in the sense of maintaining a championship caliber team) by working out a deal that would address both of those two things by trading Kyrie (thus avoiding a locker room issue and unhappy player) and still field a NBA champ caliber team assuming Bledsoe will be at least 80% of what Kyrie is plus provide possibly MORE value in the aggregate? The story was that Gilbert did not want to trade Irving and Griffin new that if Kyrie stayed it would lead to dysfunction in the locker room and be an issue.
d) I also heard that Gilbert wanted Griffin to me more of an advocate for ownership/team rather than being so “player friendly”. Whether or not it was the right thing to do, Gilbert felt that Griffin acquiesced to what the players want, especially when it came to contracts for Thompson and Smith who are both clients of LBJ/Paul and wanted him to tow a much harder line with them since the offers they made were higher than what any other team was offering to those two players.
Finally, it doesn’t make sense that Griffin, who everyone has said was close to Kyrie would be AGAINST trading Kyrie and fight AGAINST Gilbert saying no IF it’s been verified that Kyrie was the one making the request to be traded.
It’s being bandied about that Kyrie HEARD he was being shopped this off-season and then decided he wanted to be traded this July. Can we all see the contradiction here? He wanted to be traded LAST year when they won the chip. If Gilbert was the one shopping Kyrie and Kyrie wanted to be traded in July 2016 then why would Kyrie be mad if they were doing what he wanted them to do now?
I’m no genius but clearly there’s a bias against Gilbert (and the “letter”) that really colors the way reporters present the situation. Sad.
You do know that the owner, Dan Gilberr, still has to sign off on the contracts given to Thompson, Shumpert, and JR? I dont really see what you’re saying there. I also don’t think it’s that much of an overpay for JR, on that team. Shumperts deal made sense when it happened. The thompson deal never came close to making sense. He made like 35 million more rhan he should have
We need to start getting realistic about the trade value of Irving. I’m either seeing cavs fans way over valuing him or fans from other teams thinking they are going to get him for spare parts.
Look at what the bulls got for butler and the pacers got for George. That’s going to be the kind of realistic return Cleveland should get for Irving. 2 or 3 nice players and a future draft pick or two.
Also everybody saying the cavs need to dump shumperts, smiths, or Thompson’s contracts need to realize that doing that in a Irving trade will lessen the value coming back.
Assuming the cavs are looking for the best deal regardless of irvings wish list the celtics and suns make the lost since as far as young players and assets. Both teams have a good PG in Thomas and Bledsoe that could lessen the blow of losing Irving. Both teams have young players like Brown, and Tatum from the celtics or Jackson, and Chriss from the Suns. Also the both teams have future assets to package. The celtics have an obvious edge over the suns here having the lakers and nets picks next year, but the Suns do have all their own picks and the two Miami picks that only have 1 year of protection combined between the two picks.
Likely the cavs will want a PG to replace Irving and then they will have to decide if they want the high valued young players both teams have or if they want the future draft picks unless one team is dumb enough to give them both.
Celtics get: Kyrie, and Shumpert
Cavs get: IT, Marcus smart, ( pick one of the three of Brown, Tatum, the nets pick) and maybe the Celtics own pick next year which will be in the late 20’s.
Suns get: Irving, and Thompson
Cavs get: Bledsoe, Chandler, ( one of Chriss, or Bender) Tj Warren, and one of the Miami picks or maybe both. I purposely left Josh Jackson off because the word out of PHX is they aren’t going to include Jackson in any deal so it seems pointless to have him in there.
Boston deal doesn’t work. Salaries don’t match.
Doubt the cavs trade irving to celtics even if they could offer a good package
Say what you want about LBJ but he’s honored every contract and never demanded a trade in order to satisfy his wants/needs. What he has done when switching organization and using his leverage is vastly different than what Kyrie is doing now.
Not only that, but he got you 2 1st rounders from the Heat for an extra year the Heat never got
Cavs get Mello, Barton, Mudiay, Lottery Protected 2020 Denver 1st, Swap Rights to 2020 Denver 2nd
Nuggets get Irving
Knicks get Faried, Shumpert, Top 3 Protected 2018 Denver 1st
If the Cavs want so little for Irving (Melo and some non-rotation players, for them, plus some picks in back part of future drafts), then the Knicks should just take Irving. They can add more to Melo than that without involving Porzingis or a future 1st.