Lonzo Ball‘s name has been the one constant mentioned as an outgoing trade piece in the event that LeBron James decides to join the Lakers, per ESPN’s Chris B. Haynes (Twitter link).
While it’s possible that James declines his $35,607,968 player option to become a free agent, that salary actually exceeds his projected maximum salary based on a $101MM cap ($35.35MM). James could conceivably opt in and then be shipped elsewhere and the Lakers have long been connected as a potential suitor.
Ball, 20, posted a solid rookie campaign in 2017/18, averaging 10.2 PPG, 7.2 APG, and 6.9 RPG for the Lakers. However, Ball is not the lone young asset the Lakers wield as Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, and even RFA Julius Randle are all potential trade chips.
After yesterday’s news that Spurs superstar Kawhi Leonard is seeking a trade, the Lakers once again jumped to the forefront of trade discussions. To potentially acquire either one or both of Leonard and James, the Lakers will need to part with significant young talent. Those discussions likely begin with their starting point guard.
Ok Dionis, what are you proposing for LBJ to LA?
Lebron is a narcissist. He has to break down a young core just to bring in who he wants, it’s asinine. I like Ball on the Cavs though, he could easily take them to the playoffs. If I were George and Kawhi I wouldn’t want to play with Lebron, he’s going to get all the credit if he wins and make them both into spot-up shooters.
He has to break down a young core? When he left for Miami, there was no young core to break down. And when he went to Cleveland, they traded one player of consequence, dealing Wiggins for Love. So there’s one single example in the guys 15 year career. And
…and most saw that trade as the Cavs trading a potential young star for a current star whose game fit better for that team.
Dude you said exactly what I said in like…..4 sentences. Yeesh. Well done.
Seriously dude. With all due respect. You have wayyyyy too much hatred towards someone that you’ve probably never interacted with directly. I mean, your entitled to your opinion and all but yeesh,
That being said, what history are you basing this on? When he went to Miami the roster was pretty bare and the ONLY young talent that was moved was Michael Beasley and he became unneeded as he played the same position as LBJ. When he came to Cleveland the only young player on the roster traded was Anthony Bennett, who was already seen as a likely bust. Wiggins had been selected but was traded with Bennett to acquire Kevin Love, who ACTUALLY, was being pursued by owner Gilbert PRIOR to LBJ’s eventual return. I remember this clearly because Love was on the trade block and had told the Cavs (thru the media) not to trade for him because he wasn’t going to sign an extension. Once LBJ announced his return it took a special talk between LBJ and Love to convince him to accept the trade (even tho there wasn’t a NT clause to invoke) and then it took another meeting with the two AFTER the season to convince him to sign an extension. The only other young player that was moved, at perhaps the behest of LBJ, was Dion Waiters. However, Waiters and Irving, who was drafted the year before Waiters, had played together for two full seasons and were already having on-court issues and there was a narrative that Waiters was unhappy because he was playing in Irving’s shadow and not getting the ball enough. So he played 33 games with LBJ, coming of the bench, before he was traded to acquire JR Smith and Iman Shumpert. Both moves addressed needs that made sense. A 3-and-D player and outside shooting.
But I will say this, LBJ OF COURSE, will want the Lakers to bring in some vets to spread the floor with outside shooting and add some experience and leadership. I’m 100% positive that would be what Magic intends to do regardless if LBJ comes or not. Aside from a lack of enough star talent to compete with the Warriors or Rockets, they also need an impact veteran player or two to lead this team to the playoffs.
So my point is, while LBJ would want to add some vets to the LA if he comes there, the MAIN reason he would come to LA is BECAUSE of a few of the young future stars they have already. So it would defeat his own purpose for coming to LA if he asked Magic to do what you insist he’s done before (according to your false narrative) by dismantling a young core. Yes, one of Ball, Kuz, Hart, Randall, Ingram will probably be traded away for other pieces or to facilitate a sign-and-trade with the Cavs but he would absolutely want Magic to keep as many of those young pieces as possible, as long as they fit the needs of a championship caliber team.
Also, don’t confuse the effect LBJ has on other stars. As the 2nd option, Wade and Irving’s games were not negatively effected in terms of changing their style of play. They may have had less ball-handling moments all 3 were ball dominant players but while Wade’s FG attempt dropped a little, Kyrie’s actually increased to career highs over time and he led the team in most FG attempts in the 2016-17 season. The bigs, Love and Bosh, lost some shots but that was to be expected when they’re the teams 3rd option. Love’s 3 pt shooting attempts stayed consistent with the number he shot w/ The Timberwolves. Obviously, going from the #1 option to the #3 playing with the level of talent that LBJ and Irving posses meant Love fitting in how best he served the team but that was a trade-off I’m sure Love had not problem embracing in efforts to be a Nba champion.
wow….i had no idea it would be that long. oops.
No one has EVER taken Dionis seriously enough to reply so thoroughly. Good on you, man!
I know…..i’m a bit embarrassed.
I have before smh :(
It’s the only way to shut dionnis up. Kudos, great post. Except there’s no real evidence that LeBron made kyrie any better, as kyrie hasn’t really played in the NBA without LeBron yet. Otherwise I agree with everything you just said, and I’m no LeBron fan.
Lonzo could easily take Cleveland to the playoffs? Come on dude, have another drink
Ball would pee his pants if he had to lead the Cavs against even the 8th seed Pacers in a playoff. There wouldn’t be any playoffs. argghhhhh.
Why would the lakers trade to the Cavs… LBJ is going to be FA
The Lakers would be crazy to do a sign and trade, unless it is for Deng. I’m a Lakers fan and am not even convince signing LBJ as a FA is a good idea. Trading away chips for him is just not a good idea.
Not sure why lebron would do a sign and trade to weaken the team he goes too. UNLESS he feels getting rid of the Ball family would help. Which I tend to think
It would be so they can sign two max players before trading for him is my thought
It is not a sign and trade, it is a trade for an expiring LeBron.
I can see now how both HOU & LAL can gather Lebron with 2 other stars. Here’s the top choices.
HOU– Paul & Harden. Opt out or in.
PHL– Embiid & Simmons. ”
LAL– George & Leonard. ”
CLE– Love & #8pick. Opt in.
WAS– Wall & Beal. ”
LAC– Jordan & Williams. ”
BOS– Horfrd,Haywrd,Tatm. ”
Based on what James has been talking about lately (mentalities), traditionally (finishing home), and the banana-boat thing, I think he opts out and spends the next three years in Houston, until the Cavs reload.
and what go back to cleveland? if he leaves cleveland, he’ll never go back and play for them. he only retire a cav.
I can really see a scenario, if he can withstand the media’s scrutiny and narratives, where he STAYS in Cleveland and allows some sort of quick retooling. With some research I see that the near future isn’t as bleak as I thought. Cavs, unless they can magically move the contracts of Smith, Hill and Thompson this summer, may have to suffer thru 2018 with a not-so-improved team, but after this coming season a lot of those contracts are not fully guranteed…
Smith is $14 mil for 2018-19 but only guaranteed for $4 mil in 2019-20. Thus his contract CAN be valued as an expiring 1/$18 mil one this summer.
Hill is a ghastly $20 mil in 2018-19 but only guaranteed for $1 mil in 19-20 thus making his contract more of a expiring 1/$21 deal.
Korver the same. A reasonable 2/$15 mil left but the 2019-20 potion is only guaranteed for $3.4 mil making his contract more of a 1/$11 expiring contract.
Thomas (age 27) @ 2/$35 mil, Clarkson (age 26) @ 2/$26 mil and Love (age 29) @ $24 mil for 18-19 a PO for 19-20 @ $26 mil are the only expensive contracts left on the books past 2018-19.
LBJ can publicly say “Hey I want to end my career here. Dan has guaranteed me that he will do his best to bring in the best talent. 2018-19 might be tough as we try and retool but I still think we can compete for a chip and I’m dedicated to helping teams win). They have a few assets they can build around like Hood if the extend him, Clarkson, Nance and Osman. None of them are legit stars for a championship caliber team but Hood can be an impact starter while Clarkson and Nance can be key rotation pieces. Also, there are some interested bad-contract players in need of a change that MIGHT be feasible.
I imagine that vets like Melo (can opt in for $27 mil expiring contract), D. Howard ($24 mil expiring contract), Brandon Knight (2/$30 mil), Marc Gasol (1/$24 and PO 1/$26 mil), Harrisson Barnes (1/$24 mil and PO @ 1/$25 mil), Zach Randolph (1/$12 mil), Paul Milsap (1/$30 mil and PO for 1/$30 mil) and others can all help improve the Cavs in some measure for 2018-19 and I think those teams would be interested in acquiring another bad contract if it releases them from commitments past 2019 like Milsap, Barnes or Gasol.
I could see a possible trade like JR Smith and Hill (effectively owed 1/$38 mil which includes the guaranteed portions of their 2019-20 contracts) in exchange for Milsap who earns $31 mil in 18/19 and has a PO for $30 mil he’s almost guaranteed to opt in for 19-20 season). For Sac their payroll if offset for 2018/19 as Smith/Hill are owed $33 mil to Milsaps $31 but they would save about $26 mil in 19/20 as those two guaranteed potions add up to about $4 mil whereas Milsap’s option would have them on the hook for $30 mil guaranteed.
Another scenario is one where they can attach an asset and a bad contract to bring back a matching vet expiring contract. Something like JR Smith and Jordan Clarkson for Melo if he opts in on his $27 mil contract for 18/19. Melo gets his money, the trade would not add any additional payroll to OKC’s 18/19 payroll and they can acquire a young talent that has upside and is under control in Clarkson and, well, whatever JR Smith has left in him. But it gives them a swing guard in Clarkson and, if he can right himself, a decent 3pt shooting SG in Smith to fill the void left from Olidipo’s departure.
I hope Koby Altman can effectively shop Smith and Hill’s contracts as expiring contracts as cost saving options for 19/20 since the cap holds would decrease because of the non-guaranteed money.
Horfrd, Haywrd, Tatm, and Jams would be unbeatable
Does it take THAT much more effort just to type put the rest of their names?? lol
Ha. It was about spacing. Originally I had all the asterisks in a column, all nice & pretty & the chart the right width, but that’s not how it came out. Live nlearn!
Williams from LAC is a star? Whoa…didn’t realize that considering he comes off the bench and just signed a contract that in total for three years doesn’t even touch a max contract.
Sure, he scores, and that’s about it?
Scores a lot! But Williams as the second star is why I have the Clips only in 6th place despite being in LA. I presumed Harris would go to CLE in an opt-in-and-trade; Porter for WAS, Irving for BOS.
I did rank them by liklihood. I should redo that chart better.
So you think someone getting ready to make over $35 million is going to let something as relatively trivial as $250,000, the difference in the opt in and the max salary, make his decision for him? Why would he want his destination to have to give up talent in order for him to secure less than a 1% increase on his salary? It just doesn’t make sense.
Me? I think for James’ top choices, opting out is available & preferable, fpr him.
I was actually referring to the article with my use of you. It was not a reply to you, just happened to be the next comment.
I have changed my view with more details out. I thought opt-in and arrange a trade would be the most likely result. But i question whether Gilbert even wants $28+mil.worth of players traded for James! He wants to pick.
Same people that thought a supermax was going to keep Kawhi around.
As for the article, if I am correct, LAL would have to send player assets to SAS to get Kawhi, not to CLE to get James.
Kawhi20 +Lebron35FA +George30FA +stretchedDeng8 = $93MM. I think that for the last big FA to be signed (James or George) the current roster less Deng has to be down to $8MM, which the Spurs trade may do anyway.
Most of the rest of the roster can be retained with Bird rights and rich owner deficit spending.
James would prefer Ball to stay and Hart & Kuzma are assets, but IDK what will have to be given up to Spurs. I can’t see them taking Deng. Actually I can’t see them trading Leonard within the WC anyway… HOU is easier, Morey will take care of everything.
Probably no room for Ingram or 3 players under $2MM. No need for another SF anyway. Weird team with so many SFs.
Have I made errors?
It is weird, but they could easily put someone at the 2 and the 4, I’m guessing it’d be James at the 4 and PG at the 2. Similar to when Wade, James, and Bosh were in Miami playing 2-4 and they pieced things around them with vets.
I hate all of this. Of course I want Kawhi and PG13. But I’m not willing to sacrifice the core (mainly BI who I think is going to be a superstar) for 2 years of LeBron James. Building this squad has been painful but last year we just began to see their potential and now we’re gonna bust it up? I’d rather go the Warriors route
Exactly. These people are screaming for the Lakers to trade everything they have to get these guys. If they really want to come they will do it in free agency and wont compromise the team.
this!
As much as I dislike LBJ, partially based on his feeling of entitlement that he should be involved in and influence roster decisions, I can’t see him being dumb enough to opt in and ask for a Sign and Trade to LA. If he really wants to win again, and LA is the spot he wants to land with PG and the Claw, just opt out, take a little less AAV on his new deal and ensure as many assets as possible stay in LA to help him win a ‘Chip.
Giving up Irgram and Kuz to get Kawhi, but holding on to Ball is a better move than losing him too in a Sign and Trade.
James is a bad teammate. Would never trade Ball for him. Laker fans beware
Bc Ball has guides he lakers to the finals so many times? Or bc he had a very “solid” year with numbers a walk on undrafted FA could and usually do? i.e. Delly et al.
I don’t think the Cavs would want Ball at all. Not good enough of a talent and brings an entire circus with him. And I couldn’t see him signing an extension with them anyway.
Amen. I’d rather watch the canton charge than a Ball “led” Cavaliers team. That is until Ball and his daddy were sent down to the Canton Charge.
Why would he opt-in just to be traded to the Lakers? They have the cap space to sign him to a max deal.
Makes literally zero sense to trade any asset away from the team. You trade assets for someone else like Kawhi. Who is under contract and not a FA. Hand to Face.
Yeah I was wondering why a sign and trade was even brought up relative to LA. For Kawhi obviously. I don’t think there any rights that would transfer with a trade since he came back to Cleveland as a FA.
Yea itd basically a non story bc its 0% chance of happening where he gets traded to the Lakers.
If James wants to make the money he wants to make only possible by getting the Supermax from Cleveland by opting out, signing the Supermax deal with Cleveland than traded. If James just lots out then he misses out on a ton of money.
If he opts out and goes to Lakers, James gives up money. The only way Gilbert would offer him the Supermax and trade would be to get assets back and I don’t see many via the lakers.
If the Cavs somehow put together a package to get Kawhi or some top-25 player, that would be the onl if way I see LeBron staying.
Very limited means for the Cavs to trade for Kawhi but if it was brought up to LBJ and he agreed to stay then any deal for Kawhi would probably have to include Love and the #8 pick.
Do they even want Love? Any deal basically starts with the #8. It would probably be Love to a 3rd team, some younger assets to the Spurs.
I can’t see giving up the #8 pick in this draft along with Love for a guy that hasn’t been healthy for what? Three seasons??? If I could get Leonard from three years ago then yes. But Leonard has red flags all over the place. Can he even play anymore and if you think so, what possible proof can anyone offer?
Lebron go anywhere he wants to AND that team will still not beat the Warriors, Boston, or Houston next year
As far as getting Lebron goes no way would I do a sign and trade and it makes no sense he would want to do that when they have the money to sign outright. As far as trading for Leonard yea I’d give up either Ingram or Ball but not both of them.
While trading for Kawhi would be great… if the Lakers can get both LBJ and PG13, keeping the youth around would be the smartest thing they could do. Young legs to keep up with and pester an aging GSW and Houston – moreso Houston. GSW are being smart, attempting to insert youth.
I think the Cavs have limited options as far as making trades go. Maybe the Hornets if they send Dwight, Kemba, and Lamb for #8, TT, and George Hill.
It doesn’t get rid of Batum or Williams or MKG, but it does put them as a favorite for a Top-3 pick in 2019, and 2 legitimate building blocks instead of 1 in 2018.
Finding someone for MKG or Williams would be an in-season problem to address. No one is taking Batum without the inclusion of a high draft pick.
So say you come out of this draft with Michael Porter Jr. and Colin Sexton.
Sexton – Monk – Batum – Porter Jr. – Kaminsky/Zeller
The next question being – does 1 year of Dwight + Kemba + Lamb entice LBJ enough to stay at least 1 sesason?
“Crazy” trade proposal:
OKC gets Aldridge and Patty Mills
Lakers get Paul George and Kawhi
Spurs get Luol Deng, Carmelo, Kuzma, Lonzo, and Ingram
Pretty sure the numbers work.
So the Lakers trade Kuzma, Ball, and Ingram for Kawhi? PG13 is a FA.
Z-A. The Lakers get more than Kawhi in my trade scenario. They’d get financial flexibility. In these ways: They get rid of Luol Deng. And, by acquiring PG via trade rather than as a free agent the Lakers would save about 10 million in cap space (that they could spend this summer on free agents…and then give PG his extension in September). PG as a free agent will cost 30 mil; via trade 19.5 mil. In the trade I proposed, the total cap hit for PG/Kawhi/Lebron is 75 mil and should enable the Lakers would be able to keep Randle and/or make some other significant signings. The salary cap rules are tricky, so its possible I am proposing something impossible.
The big idea of my crazy trade proposal is that the Lakers get PG/Kawhi/Lebron for a about 75 mil leaving them with a lot of extra money to spend in free agency (because its cheaper to acquire PG via trade and then extend him afterwards rather than signing him as a free agent). And they shed Deng’s toxic contract. Frye is the next highest paid player on the team and he can stay or go depending on what the Lakers want. I am confident that OKC or San Antonio would take him/won’t hold up a deal.
The Spurs get a fresh start with young talent but they’ll be saddled with bad contracts for a few years. I’d love to see if Pop can do anything with Melo (I have my doubts but hey one never knows). I’d like to see what Pop does with a bunch of young talent too.
And OKC gets an all-star (Aldridge) that fits with Westbrook and is under contract for several years. Instead of the headache that will be Melo and Westbrook next year.
Definitely I wouldn’t trade Ball or Ingram for Kawhi, not even Kuzma & Randle. To me youth is more important. Lakers just went years loosing to accumulate all that talent, to give it up for a top 20 player no way, Kuzma & Randle will be good players maybe even all-stars, Ball & Ingram will be stars, you cannot give them away just like that.
I disagree. Calling Kawhi a “top 20” player is like calling LBJ a “top 10” player. If healthy, he’s easily a top 3-5 guy. Also, the purpose of the rebuild is to not only accumulate young controllable talent, but to also slash your salary and use those young assets to bring in via FA or trade, a top tier player to combine WITH the talent to build a championship contender. No way in the world is Magic thinking he can win it all with the likes of Ball, Ingram, Kuzma or Randle. If all of them were to hit their ceilings I still wonder if any of them would be top 10 NBA guys. I agree that they shouldn’t trade ALL of those guys, but there’s no need to. I think Ball will be less than what was hoped for but Magic invested so much hype in him I’m not sure if he’d pull the trigger on a trade and I question how much value he has right between his poor numbers AND the baggage that comes with him. Had it not been for the baggage then it would be more justifiable to stick with the growing pains and hope he can improve prior to hitting FA in 3-4 years. If healthy, it will still take Kawhi, another top 10 player and a couple of those young talents to come close to getting past Houston and the GSW in the next couple of years.
Yes Lakers! Ship Ball and his obnoxious father out of town, that’ll shut Lavar up!
But who in gods name would take Ball? Other than a European team. Buddha knows that family isn’t playing in China anytime soon.
And suddenly LeBron is my savior! Lol. I’d love for him to join the Lakers if that means Lonzo and his Pops gets shipped off to a rebuilding San Antonio franchise. Let’s do this Bron! Celtics vs Lakers I the Finals again. Kyrie vs LeBron. Perfect!
Haha Celts/Lakers (Kyrie/LeBron) finals would be a lot of fun. But the lakers, even with LeBron, will still not beat the Warriors
Please ship this arrogant kid and his father out of town.
Lakers should trade Ball to a team in Lithuania. Do every a favor and get rid of him and his dad