NOVEMBER 25: The Celtics and Hornets have continued to work on ways to turn the Hayward deal into a sign-and-trade, with Charlotte trying to find a team that might be able to take on Batum’s $27MM expiring deal so that he doesn’t have to be waived-and-stretched, tweets Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.
It sounds as if the Celtics don’t have any interest in taking on Batum or another player from the Hornets, preferring to generate a significant trade exception for signing-and-trade Hayward. The Thunder and Knicks may be the two teams best positioned to accommodate a salary dump, but there would be cap-related challenges in both cases.
NOVEMBER 21: The Celtics and Hornets are still discussing the possibility of turning Charlotte’s signing of Gordon Hayward into a sign-and-trade, according to Adam Himmelsbach of The Boston Globe (Twitter link).
Hayward reached an agreement earlier today to join the Hornets on a four-year, $120MM contract. Charlotte doesn’t have the cap room necessary to fit Hayward’s first-year salary in without making a corresponding roster move, so the team is reportedly planning to waive and stretch the final year of Nicolas Batum‘s contract, creating an extra $18MM in space.
Whether or not the Hornets intend to move forward with their plan to use the stretch provision on Batum, it makes sense to explore the possibility of a sign-and-trade.
Sending out enough salary to altogether avoid having to waive Batum would create future cap savings for Charlotte, though it’s not clear if acquiring a player like Terry Rozier or Cody Zeller would be of any interest to the Celtics after they reportedly reached deals with Jeff Teague and Tristan Thompson tonight.
Even if the Celtics don’t get anything of substance back from Charlotte in exchange for Hayward, the ability to create a massive traded player exception worth the forward’s outgoing salary should appeal to president of basketball operations Danny Ainge, as that exception could come in handy at some point over the next year. Boston may be willing to send the Hornets a small asset – such as a future second-round pick or cash – in order to create a sizeable TPE.
If the two sides don’t reach an agreement, Charlotte can simply move forward with its initial plan to waive and stretch Batum.
54 thoughts on “Hornets, Celtics Still Exploring Sign-And-Trade Structure For Hayward Deal”
Wouldn’t the asset have to go the other way? There’s no TPE created if Boston is sending Hayward and stuff for literally nothing. Hornets would have to send a pick or some stiff whom Boston waives.
Yeah, in that scenario the Hornets would probably send a top-55 protected future pick or something along those lines. A “something” that’s really nothing.
I originally thought they would send Batum and a pick instead of stretching him.
That’s theoretically a possibility, though I feel like it’d be a lot trickier to work out (Hornets wouldn’t want to give up a strong pick, Celtics wouldn’t want to take Batum WITHOUT getting a strong pick).
If they can accommodate Batums contract for a year , hes not the worst guy to get.
Idk about his injury status but dude would be solid off the bench , then just let him walk after.
In that case, I’d imagine it would be something like Hayward and a second rounder to Charlotte in exchange for a top-55 protected second rounder
In that case it would be a sign and trade, and Charlotte would be hard capping itself. Not sure if it cares (they’re very far from the apron).
I’d imagine that isn’t an issue to them. With the way that Charlotte tends to use their cap space they’d probably be better off hard capped anyway lol
Zeller? Scary Terry would work though, Walker, Rozier, and Smart would be an excellent 3 guard rotation with Teague for depth if Rozier didn’t sulk like last time.
The prodigal son’s comeback…
You: Haha, Celtics are a mess when they make ECF and are about to flip Hayward for better assets. Got ya.
That comment didn’t age well, at all.
Article: Even if the Celtics don’t get anything of substance back from Charlotte in exchange for Hayward, the ability to create a massive traded player exception worth the forward’s outgoing salary should appeal to president of basketball operations Danny Ainge,
Author comment : Yeah, in that scenario the Hornets would probably send a top-55 protected future pick or something along those lines. A “something” that’s really nothing.
Given the overpays we’ve seen this off-season, this barely even qualifies.
Hornets did a good job overpaying for a decent player. No one is ever going to Charlotte when the money is the same so its a move they had to make.
True. Small market team have to pay extra bucks for star players and for Hayward it’s good opportunity to prove he’s still got something left in the tank after all this injuries.
Ainge is probably going to ask for LaMelo.
I still can’t believe he asked for Turner AND Warren or Oladipo. I’ve never been a big Ainge fan, but most GMs would have turned backflips to just get Turner for their team instead of asking for a starting wing with him on a team that already has too many wings as it is.
Agree, even if it was just a negotiating position. Turner might have been the best asset ever returned in a S&T, and a perfect fit. He should have been on top of a S&T with the Hornets immediately as well. Even if he doesn’t want Rozier back, he could have taken Zeller (in lieu of TT, better fit, 1 year vs 2), kept his MLE and get a 13 mm TPE.
Danny should be asking for more. It’s his job to try to improve as much as possible. But that’s irrelevant. There’s no trade if there’s no signed deal. Hayward chose Charlotte. THAT is what killed the deal.
That’s all speculation…I heard yesterday that Ainge didn’t like Turner… But again, speculation until you hear it from the horse’s mouth. Boston allegedly offered GH something like 4 yrs 100+ mil…Pacers did the same…GH wanted out so that’s where the sign and trade came into play, then Charlotte swooped in and offered the $120 mil… But this is the NBA so no one really knows what happened. It will come out eventually.
I hope Celtics get something out of this if only so I don’t have to listen to people overreacting asking for Ainge to be replaced. This is not an organization that needs to start from scratch – far from it. Unless you are replacing Ainge with a guaranteed commodity (and please, tell me who that is? No one seems to be able to…I’ll wait…) getting rid of him is not going to make this team better overnight.
Other than Sam Presti, there’s no one better
The only thing Boston stands to gain is a trade exception. They are going to have to give Charlotte more value (or just eat a contract) in order to get the Hornets to convert this.
Well, MJ’s not a winner when it comes to running an organization!
Getting Hayward at ANY price is a dementia move!
Well, MJ’s not a winner when it comes to running an organization!
Getting Hayward is a loser’s move!
The Celtics should earmark a few bucks from their traded player exception and add Aron Baynes. He adds a lot of muscle, can help wear down opponents, and puts up surprisingly good numbers for the amount of time he plays. He would only cost pocket change but provide valuable insurance.
He signed with the Raptors
Nevermind, just realized your comment is three days old.. My bad
I also don’t believe you can split a trade exception. So even if Baynes hadn’t signed… it’s not like they could’ve traded for him AND someone else… they Trade Exception has to be used all at once.
I think that they could’ve used the trade exception from trading Kanter. But, doesn’t matter now
Don’t understand the benefit for CHA in a S & T?
I mean waiving & stretching Batum seems to be a fantastic idea for them anyway just for getting rid of him!
Only way I can see this working for CHA is if they send some awful contract or player to BOS meanwhile BOS sends to them a good asset, that would work!
Ainge won’t let that much potential money go by unclaimed.
If it converts to a S&T, Boston won’t be getting the better of what gets added.
It’ll either be CHA unloading a contract (like Batum or Zeller) or swapping a lower pick for a higher Boston pick.
Otherwise, you’re right. There’d be no benefit for the Hornets.
Boston cannot take a contract back or there is no TPE created. And that’s the whole purpose.
Waive and stretch of Batum is not a horrible idea. But unloading his contract would be exponentially better. Good luck with that, though.
However, even if he’s stretched, the second year of that cap hit would coincide with Zeller coming off the books.
Unless this Hayward deal winds up being a terrible contract (and it definitely could), the Hornets are in pretty good cap shape for the foreseeable future.
Remember, just last year, the were carrying horrible deals on Marvin Williams, MKG, Biyombo, Batum, and Zeller.
We’ve suffered through cap hell. Hopefully that’s all in the past, and the Hornets can get serious about winning.
The hornets serious about winning, Oh man that’s funny
Hayward to CHA-> Batum to OKC -> Horford to BOS
OKC gets out of 2 years of Horford, who will certainly play better under Stevens.
That would kill Boston’s TPE, which defeats the whole purpose.
This is good for Celtics. But you have to give OKC another pick. They get Horford back. They don’t need a TE. Like it.
What about Hayward to Hornets, Batum, 2 CHA 2nd round picks and Boston’s 2021 1st rounder to San Antonio and then DeRozan to Celtics?
Celtics need to offer a future First and Hornets need to offer 2 seconds For Knicks or Thunder to take Batum contract
Move Zeller into OKC’s Green TPE, that should create enough cap room and be an easier contract to dump. Then just waive Batum or keep him, rather than stretching his salary.
Hornets already don’t have any bigs. You gonna give away their only decent one?
I’d rather dump Zeller versus stretching Batum for $9m over 3 yrs, and then go sign Whiteside or an equivalent middling Zeller-type big for their room exception.
Zeller for Ariza
I predict Ariza will be traded two more time this week
OKC does not have green but they have brown
I’m not sure who argues for S&Ts in CBA talks, but they do provide some offseason intrigue for certain fans, who likely would appear to be a growth area for the NBA.
There is always the problem of NBA games not being as compelling as the idea of pro basketball, as is demonstrated by the popularity of the NBA offseason.
I think Hayward has already opted out; I don’t see what Ainge has to do with anything. He has already offered what he can. It seems like any team could offer to S&T him to get the TPE. I’m sure there are rules against it but IDK on what basis. Why is this a thing? Maybe it’s too late to disallow it.
Hornets would have to be nuts to facilitate Boston getting a 27 mm or so TPE for a 2nd round pick, while they still get stuck having to W&S Batum. Boston has to at least take back contracts in the amount that permits the Hornets to absorb Haywood into cap space with a W&S. It shouldn’t be more than 10-12 mm or so. Still leaves Boston with a very valuable TPE that extends into next off season.
OKC gets Batum & BOS picks
CHA gets Ariza (& Hayward)
BOS gets their TPE.
Everybody wins. Too easy.
CHA is happy. OKC should get a 1st since it’s about 15 mm of current cap space they’re selling. Question is whether Boston is willing to give up a 1st (lotto protected) to get a larger TPE. Do they really need a 27 mm TPE? Can they use it? Would they be better off with a 15 mm TPE and taking 12 mm in contracts from CHA?
That’s been my question all along. I don’t know what Ainge has got up his sleeve?
The number one trade candidate out there for virtually everyone SHOULD be Andre Drummond. And that would fit perfectly. However, I haven’t heard a peep about any move regarding Drummond. And he’d be a good, but not great fit in Boston.
I don’t know…
Monk $5, Rozier$19, both slowly getting a bit better considering Rozier is outsized at SG… Zeller at $15… Batum at $27… no good options…
Why allow this TPE option at all? Of for Gallinari. Can’t it be closed? It’s unnatural.
Starting to feel like Charlotte have a bit more than Washington and could be closer to the 8th seed than I first thought. After the starting 5 they got quite a bit of depth with Rozier, Monk, Bridges. Think they have enough to get into the play in.