JULY 11: The Knicks and Pistons have officially completed their trade, the teams announced today in a pair of press releases.
As expected, the Pistons acquired Noel, Burks, cash, and the team’s own 2023 second-round pick. The second pick Detroit received will be either Minnesota’s or New York’s 2026 second-rounder, rather than the heavily protected Miami 2024 second-rounder described below.
The Knicks, meanwhile, received the draft rights to 2015 second-rounder Nikola Radicevic and a protected 2025 second-round pick. That pick will have top-55 protection, tweets Fred Katz of The Athletic.
JUNE 28: The Knicks are trading center Nerlens Noel and guard Alec Burks to the Pistons, ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski tweets.
The Knicks will unload more than $19MM in 2022/23 salary in the deal, providing ample cap space to sign free agent guard Jalen Brunson. Noel has a $9.24MM salary next season, while Burks is due approximately $10MM.
Both players are signed through the 2023/24 season, but there are team options in the final year of their respective contracts — Noel at $9.68MM and Burks at approximately $10.5MM. Thus, those salaries could come off the Pistons’ cap next summer.
New York will send Detroit back its 2023 second-round pick, plus the Heat’s 2024 second-round pick (top-55 protected) and $6MM in cash as sweeteners to take those contracts off its books, Wojnarowski reports in a separate tweet.
The Pistons can absorb those salaries without sending out any contracts, since they were projected to have more cap space than any other team. The Knicks, meanwhile, should have now the cap room necessary to sign Jalen Brunson in free agency.
The Knicks and Pistons were also involved in a three-way draft-night agreement that included the Hornets. In that trade, Detroit took Kemba Walker‘s contract off New York’s books and acquired the draft rights to Jalen Duren.
The Pistons plan on keeping Burks and Noel, according to Wojnarowski (Twitter link). Burks, a 38% career 3-point shooter, will give the Pistons a perimeter threat on the wing who can help mentor the young backcourt of Cade Cunningham and rookie Jaden Ivey. Noel provides depth in the middle behind Isaiah Stewart and Duren.
Despite the addition of Noel, the Pistons are still committed to bringing back restricted free agent Marvin Bagley III, Omari Sankofa of the Detroit Free Press tweets.
If there’s not picks involved I don’t get this trade from the pistons standpoint
It’s apparently just their own 2023 2nd back, and a heavily protected Miami 2024 2nd (56-60)
Better trade now that I see the terms. 2 seconds not huge, but cash with it is worth it. Plus they could flip one or both. I think they flip Noel
Lol the sexound rd pks are not huge?? First of all the picks arw way different tondescribe them both as twos is dumb one will be the 32 or 31 pick in the draft which since the 30th pk is a first rd pk the 32nd is basicaly just as good the main part of the deal was that “2nd” rd pk
They might flip the two of them.
Who wants a injured alec burks or a backup center getting paid 10 mil
Two 2nds and some cash. Not a bad move by the Knicks.
At this moment
San Antonio Spurs, Orlando Magic, Indiana Pacers and New York Knicks are the only teams with cap space this offseason to sign good players ($25 million this year)
It’s also possible that Knicks are also targeting Irving, Murray or any other stars.
Knicks have $34 million cap room and save Nets money.
Example
This trade would work
RJ Barrett, Reddish and Quickley for Irving
Nets can’t trade Irving for 6 months.
Kyrie Irving can still technically be traded.
It would be great for Lakers present and future
If Westbrook opt out
If Irving signs $6 million contract
Westbrook and Irving just don’t want to help Lakers.
Disaster week for Lakers.
Now why would the Knicks make a foolish trade like that?
Why the hell would the Knicks do that?
As talented Is Irving is. He is just too much of a hassle. Also too much To give up for him.
What good players? None available
Are y’all saying that only max players are good players?? I think you’re conflating “good” with “elite”. Good players are available at the MLE. “Elite” players are max contracts.
Yeah I don’t see it either.
All just for Brunson? Lol.
That’s what you think
Based on what, the Knicks track record?
Agreed!
Yeah, Don’t see Brunson. 6’1’’ be a game changer. In a playoff series he can be doubled, taken out of game like Trae was against Heat, Trae averaged 15 points for series. PANIC MOVE by Knicks front office. Knicks front office gone in 2 yrs.
So is brunson
he will be punked by taller double-teams when there’s no Doncic to mark
Pistons enjoy tanking.
I still think it should be 2 Knicks 2nd round picks plus $5 million cash.
Good move for the Knicks, but just calls into question the fact that they gave those contracts out last offseason in the first place/ they’ve now traded 6 2nd rounders and a first rounder to get out of Walker, Burks, and Noel’s contracts. Imagine still having those picks AND Brunson.
No need for 2nds, they are + 3 on first rders with all their own the next 3~4 yrs
Small price to pay for doing a little free agent business that did help contribute to 1 fun year
They’ll be im the lottery so great move
2nd are valuable, just look how many 2nd rounders are starting caliber playersd around the league
Yeah who needs seconds? Its not like thats where we got our starting center who we just resigned for 15 mil a year and the pistons secound was basically a first if a team signs olayers to auch bad deals that you have to gove draft pks away to free urself from said deals things have gone very bad
I get your point, but second rounders don’t have much value. Would have been nice to have the first, plus they probably could have used the space they would have saved by not signing Walker/Burks/Noel to acquire someone else’s mistakes and gained some more picks in the process.
Or even just wait till FA plays down and grab some guys that didn’t find a market for themselves but are under rated. It’s not a lot of money to go around.
Like how Cam Payne signed for 6 per season. A guy like Derrick Jones Jr may go for like 3 million once all the money is dried up. Jalen Smith is better than Bagley Jr. Could have through money that way.
S**t I would have offered GPII 2/34 before I wasted 20 million. Burks and Noel are decent but don’t fit the Pistons timeline.
They aren’t that valuable as a trade commodity, but when you need talent, the more bites you get of the apple…so many great players in this league were second round picks. The problem with the Knicks is they are always one foot in, one foot out. Are they trying to win now, or stockpile assets? They’ve traded their first round picks each of the last two years. They’re clearly all in on Brunson, which is a win-now move, so that will likely devalue their own future firsts, which are the only ones with real value since they aren’t protected. Their strategy just seems discombobulated and all over the place. They really ought to be focused on rebuilding through the draft. Brunson is solid, but you only get players like Morant/Zion/Cunningham etc through the draft. Sam Hinkie had the right idea.
Depends on what secound rder a pick in the low 30s is basicaly a forst rounder and has value thats how the knicks got mitchell robinson
They were coming off a 41-31 season, and Burks/Noel Chad contributed to it. Walker was to fill the need that Brunson theoretically will.
If the deals had been 1+1’s, it would have been better, but on the surface, the Noel and Burks deals didn’t look that bad.
They were awful, only Al defended them and we know what does this mean
That I can tell, only x%sure defends Burks… AL just sccepts those two homer-style.
Nobody is going after Burks at that salary, or as a savior or as their future, but he is good to have, and people are sleeping on his value.
Burks shoots from 3 well, defends well, and is PG-capable. I do not see him as a starting PG, but one who can deliver a sharp plan-B to a team not in flow. Otherwise, a good 3&D who just turned 30.
Burks looked fine with the Cavs but they were clearing the way for Sexton and got a first for him in a large trade.
41-31 = barely not suck
“Imagine still having those picks AND Brunson.” – It’s like saying “Imagine the Knicks with positive management”.
Yesss Roi!
They still needed to field a team and those guys got them to the playoffs the year before.
“You’ve got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em,
Know when to walk away, know when to run.”
Wait u think we made the playoffs cause of kemba and noell and burks? Thats assine we dont sign those guys we still make playoffs randle rose robinson barret those guys all had amazing years atop with lies liar
They weren’t bad contracts at the time; they were valuable contributors to that team two years ago. Noel just couldn’t stay healthy last year and Burks was a great spark off the bench, but no one expected Randle to throw a season-long tantrum and completely regress the way he did. They also swung and missed on Kemba, but that was a gamble worth taking.
I’m just going to say it: Jalen Brunson isn’t worth bending over backwards for like the Knicks are doing
Seriously! If this was the summer of 2010 with Wade, Bosh, and Lebron available, I get it. But it’s Brunson.
Calling it now, Knicks ruin him and they are trying to trade him in 18 months
That’s a lot of money to take on just for two second round picks. I guess they’re both decent players. Not total bums
1. They are decent but not worth their contract IMO.
2. Detroit will probably flip them.
You should know Troy Weaver by now. He’s not done. I wouldn’t be surprised if Noel is flipped to the Clippers and Burks and Olynyc to the Celtics. This trade was all about the 2nd round picks.
Weaver likes mentor players. Burks & Noel play positions the Pistons just drafted at. Of course for that, they have Joseph, Mcgruder & Olymyk too… so far.
Maybe the Pistons plan on sending those guys out later for salary matching purposes. They are expiring contracts but you would think the Pistons should be getting more back. Maybe even Cam Reddish or McBride or something.
The $6 million pays about 30% of the salaries that Detroit received and they may be able to flip Nerlens and Burks into other assets since they are not as impatient as the Knicks seem to be. NYK are really running up a tab to get Brunson.
so Knicks got nothing back in return besides cap space or did I read the article wrong?
It looks like they will try to slide it into the existing deal from draft day. Therefore, the Pistons would not need to send the Knicks anything extra.
Knicks won the trade
Its normal to pay and give picks to dump your last years lauded renewals so you can sign the next lauded free agent and then dump him within 2 years for the next and so on..
Knick will have 32 wins this year. Way to win the trade
Haha 32 wins are you dumb? Knicks will be 3 seed in the East with Brunson and Murray
lol
/S
The /S is known as the sarcasm switch.
Those contracts will be a good asset for the pistons mid season or next year. Good way for some team to give up some assets to move a bad contract and take back salary.
Burks and Noel have good contracts. For the NYK, this is the price of dumping salary into cap space in advance of the FA period, when cap space is at a premium. DET will get something for each player before the deadline. NYK are only giving them one potentially valuable 2nd, DET’s own 2023.
I don’t think there’s such a thing as a ‘potentially valuable 2nd’. NBA teams do not value them and use them as trade filler. The 32nd pick in the draft is worth about as much as the 45th pick. You’re just gambling with them and selecting project players or guys to fill out a roster.
Mitch was pick 36 in 2nd rd.
McBride was pick 36 in 2nd rd.
Jericho Sims was pick 58 in 2nd rd.
Keels this yr was pick #42 in 2nd rd. Third Youngest player in draft 18 yrs old.
You can find players in 2nd rd. And top of 2nd rd is better for team. Cause they do t have to give out a guaranteed contract. To like pick 24-30
So the Pistons now have 5 Centers in Stewart, Duran, Olnyk, Bagley III and Noel. Plus 7 guards in Cade, Ivey, Hayes, Joseph, McGruder, Lee and Burks. Where are they going to play them all? Interesting move and sure more to come.
They flip Noel, Cade plays multiple positions, Mcgruder is a Fa, Joseph is depth that likely wont get minutes, Hayes is developing. Burks likely stays b/c they need shooting at his positions, and then I see them maybe trading him during the season
Easy move for the Pistons to make: bring in reliable vets off the bench on expiring deals (with team options) add a high 2nd round pick and a conditional low 2nd. Get about 1/3 of their actual salaries paid for.
PF: Marvin Bagley III with backup Olynyk
C: Isaiah Stewart with backups Noel and rookie Jalen Duren
Stewart shot 50% on 3’s the last 14 games last year (not many attempts though): if he proves he can sustain during preseason then options open up in that rotation.
PG: Cade will play as the points guard (yes points not point). Backup is Killian Hayes
SG: Ivey with Burks, Joseph and Diallo as backups
SF: Saddiq Bey backups Livers, Burks, and McGruder
Pistons still have a little above $19M in cap space after these moves. So additional moves are possible–but I would think they would wait until closer to the trade deadline next year to get any true impact player.
Olynyk was never a true center. Stewart is more a PF, Bagley is a PF not a center.
Noel and Olynyk are solid bigs. That can get you value at TD. Pistons are most talented young team in NBA imo. Have faith
It’s funny, anytime a team gets a second rounder back as a return for a trade it’s generally considered disappointing, then the Knicks trade second rounders and all of a sudden they have massive trade value. Knicks still have 12(!!!!) picks owed the next three drafts, 7 firsts, and you can buy second round picks on draft day, we see it all the time. Knicks cleared $30 mil for basically nothing and people are using THIS as an LOLKNICKS moment.
Not the biggest fan of Brunson but he is a very good starting PG and young. $25M per is probably too much but it isn’t back breaking. In a couple years when the cap goes up, it’ll be a good deal. Also more playing time has opened up for the kids. I believe the 3 extra first will convey and besides that, Pistons & Wiz would need to negotiate with Knicks if they wanted to trade a 1st in the next couple years. It sounds like teams were playing serious hardball when it came to trading with the Knicks. Besides the Kemba part, I think the Knicks did alright for themselves.
Why the Pistons?
Pistons will own their 1st rounder in 2023 as it is pick 1-18 protected and they are not likely to make the playoffs. So it will be a lottery pick. It will probably be their last lottery pick for a while given their young core (1st rounders: Cade, Ivey, Bey, Stewart, and Duran and 2nd rounders: Livers and Lee).
plus 23 year old 1st rounder Marvin Bagley, 24 yr old 2nd rounders: Frank Jackson and Hamidou Diallo from Duke and Kentucky.
Most importantly, the Pistons will have $45M in cap space in summer 2023 if they renounce Burks and Noel’s team options plus waive Olynyk (who only has $3M in guaranteed money).
Piston are setting up to be competitive starting in 2023-24 they won’t need late lottery draft picks with $45M in cap space.
I would have preferred to keep Burks over Fournier, but this is definitely step 1 in what I was talking about in moving 1 of Burks/Fournier, and 1 of Noel/Mitch (keeping whoever you think stays healthy)
I think Detroit will be able to flip at least 1 of those guys, and may keep Burks b/c they need shooting at his position, and potentially move him during the season.
So would the Pistons. No one wants Fournier and that contract.
Well, obviously, but I think they could have done something elsewhere…mostly previously though, like instead of what they did in the draft, maybe trying to move 1 of these guys, plus 11 to Minnesota for 19 and a pick next year or something similar, then draft Christian Braun…I also think Fournier would actually make some sense for Detroit as a veteran scorer/shooter that could fit next to their defenders/playmakers, and his deal wouldnt have killed them cap wise for these next 2 years, and then maybe they can move him if he plays well…
Obviously wishful thinking, but I’m just saying I think there were ways to move off that deal. I also feel like they’re over extending for Brunson, and it would have made more sense to target other positions/try to move Fournier/utilize their young guards better
would be funny as hell if brunson goes elsewhere now
also i’m really liking the pistons moves recently, their front office is definitely solid
I think the Pistons drafts moves have been much better than their draft pick acquisitions.
Cade and Ivey lock down their guard positions for the next decade. Plus Isaiah Stewart and Saddiq Bey (both of whom were NBA all-rookie team). Now add center Jalen Duran. Killian Hayes (20 yrs old) is the question mark of their 1st rounders, but at worst is a solid backup PG. Throw in 2nd rounders Isaiah Livers and Saben Lee off the bench.
That’s a solid core with enough cap space to take chances on 4th year players like: Frank Jackson (Duke), Hamidou Diallo (Kentucky), and 2018 2nd overall pick Marvin Bagley (Duke). And potential $45M in cap space come July 2023.
I say that is a whole lot more than “solid.”
So…
Knicks acquire:
Brunson
3 #1’s
Knicks give up:
#11 pick in the first round
4 #2’s
Walker
Noel
Burks
$6M
Knicks did well.
Saying 3x 1st rounder is true BUT did you see what pick numbers they will be?
Detroit’s #1 pick (obtained via OKC) is heavily protected.
’23 & ’24 protected 1-18
’25 protected 1-13
’26 protected 1-11
’27 protected 1-9 at which point it converts to a 2nd round pick
(so figure it converts in 2025 as a non-lottery pick)
The 2025 1st rounder via Detroit is from Milwaukee (and thus going to be a 22-30 pick overall).
Plus they paid assets to dump expiring contracts when they dumped reliable bench vets Noel and Burks. Those type of contracts are worth assets come trade deadline or sooner. Only teams reaching for free agents would let those go and give up draft capital.
The only thing of value the Knicks gave up was the #11 pick. 2nd rounders aren’t worth much. Burks, Noel, and Walker were probably not going to bring in anything at the deadline like you’re suggesting. The $6 million is Dolan’s money, so who cares?
I’m not saying the Knicks did great here, but they gave up very little and acquired three mid- to late-round 1sts over the next few years and enough space to sign the guy the want to. Not bad, imo.
That Milwaukee pick is three years down the line. If it was a 2023 pick, then definitely 22-30. But one never knows what will happen three years in the future. Giannis could regress. Age could catch up with him. It might not, but you never know. Plus there is always the injury possibility. Milwaukee seems like they would be in a Portland-style fall off by that point.
So it COULD be a low first, but one never knows that far into the future. Portland is the perfect example because 3 years ago no one expected them to have the #7 pick in this draft.
We are not picking lol. They are assets and will be moved for a player. You accumulate picks to trade them. Only top 5 picks are never moved.
Next years draft has much more potential in the top 5-8 picks than this year. That’s not to say that is what Detroit was playing for but they don’t have many long term commitments looming after the 22-23 season.
Projected cap for the 23-24 season is around $130 million and as of right now Detroit only has about $45 million committed to 7 guys. They will still look to sign Bagley and a Walker buyout should still leave them with $15-$20 still to spend this off-season.
I see Burks and Noel here for a season. Detroit would have room to offer 2 max deals next offseason with all expiring deals and options declined. Veteran leadership mentors shouldnt be needed at that point as Detroit has been doing a good job of drafting guys who seem to have a good head on their shoulders. Once cap holds for draft picks are figured in then Detroit should have 10-11 roster spots filled and $70 million to spend on the other 3-4 spots. After next offseason though money will start to get tight as Bey, Stew, Cade get closer to extensions.
Um…. wth are the Pistons doing? That’s garbage return for losing 19M cap space.
Lose an over year for a top pick and clean their book for next FA … But is Duren @ #11 is a good pick that is the only question Détroit FO will face
Pistons are going to want someone to take Olynyk, he doesn’t fit at all with what they’re doing now.
Portland on Line 1
They don’t have enough cap to Sign Ayton to a max deal now right?
The Pistons? No, I believe they’re in the $10-15MM range.
So moving money from cap. Basically turned into Brunson, Hartenstein, Mitch .
Knicks have a Center and depth …….
Hartenstein, Sims
Knicks have a PG and depth …….
Rose Quickley, McBride
Alec burks was a large part of New York’s success last year
Mark Cuban is happy for Jalen Brunson but never got a chance to match Knicks deal.
He had 4 yrs to get this right. And never flinched when he signed with Knicks.
Jalen knew he was leaving last yr. I’m sure Mavs had to know something. Or are they that stupid …….