In a recent live stream for Bleacher Report (video link), Jake Fischer discussed the current stalemate surrounding both the Bulls with Josh Giddey and the Warriors with Jonathan Kuminga, neither of which he expects to come to an end anytime soon. During that stream, Fischer reported that there is interest, at least from the Warriors’ end, in a double sign-and-trade that could solve both problems simultaneously.
“I can report that there have been multiple teams that have reached out to Josh Giddey’s representation about having interest in [him],” Fischer said. “Golden State is one of them. Golden State would be interested, depending on how the machinations would go, in some kind of Josh Giddey-Jonathan Kuminga sign-and-trade, to my understanding.”
Of course, a sign-and-trade needs both sides to be interested, and Fischer notes that doesn’t appear to be the case at the moment. “The Bulls have been telling teams… that they don’t want to talk sign-and-trade,” he said.
According to Fischer, Chicago does have a longstanding interest in Kuminga, though it’s unclear to what extent. While the Bulls haven’t made an “aggressive pursuit” of Kuminga to this point, they remain on the periphery of the situation.
“They made outreach to Golden State early in the offseason about Kuminga, they’ve talked about Kuminga in various trade conversations with the Warriors in the past when Golden State was checking in on Zach LaVine and Alex Caruso and other things,” Fischer says.
A double sign-and-trade is a difficult maneuver to pull off, as the rules regarding base year compensation mean that the salaries going out would only count for 50% of their annual average value to the team trading them, but would count fully for the team receiving the player. Since that would apply to both the Bulls and Warriors in such a deal, any double sign-and-trade would almost certainly necessitate at least one more team getting involved.
The Warriors were prepared to draft Giddey in 2021 if Kuminga were selected ahead of their No. 7 pick, per Fischer, and they’ve since maintained their interest in the 6’8″ guard. Fischer also notes that the Warriors have attempted to negotiate with this Bulls regime before, citing the 2023 deadline, when the Warriors reportedly made multiple first-round picks available in a potential deal for Caruso.
He adds that rival teams feel that the Bulls are not generally forthcoming in trade negotiations, at times to the point of inscrutability.
“Other teams don’t want to talk that business with Chicago, and they know Chicago doesn’t really want to make sign-and-trade scenarios come to fruition for Josh Giddey after turning Caruso into Giddey directly with no other draft capital coming back,” Fischer said.
Even if the Warriors and Bulls don’t make any sort of deal this offseason, that may not close the door on the idea of Kuminga eventually ending up in Chicago, Fischer adds: “There still is some hope from Kuminga’s side that the Bulls could factor into his situation right now, and there is also some hope to my understanding from Kuminga’s side that if he were to take the qualifying offer and reach unrestricted free agency next year, the Bulls… are going to be major players with cap space.”
It’s interesting that bad teams (Bulls, Kings, Suns) are the only reported teams with interest in Kuminga.
Kuminga said he wanted to play on a team that would give him 35+ mins a game, being he isn’t currently an elite superstar, those are obviously the only teams that could offer him that role. Not “interesting” at all, really.
He’s not a good help defender, he doesn’t talk on defense, he doesn’t box out on the defensive boards.
Kuminga is a talented offensive player who wants the ball in his hands a lot and wants to be able to focus on his offense. That opportunity hasn’t been there for him on Steph Curry’s team and with Kerr’s emphasis on defensive effort and execution of scheme.
Winning teams are very focused on defensive execution and generally know their roles offensively.
To add bad teams are looking for an offensive star, good teams have that and are looking for defense and spacing.
All true, but that’s half the story.
Not a good help defender at this stage, but an above average on-ball and 3-point defender with extraordinary physical tools. In the modern NBA, big, athletic wing defenders are THE most prized.
Team defense is learned. Physical tools are not.
Kuminga is only 6’6, so he doesn’t qualify as a big wing.
If he was 6’8 to 6’11 then he could be classified as a big wing
Well, his official height is 6’8″, and he’s said to be 6’7″ without shoes.
Kuminga is 6’6. He measured 6’6 when playing in the G-League. Without shoes.
He’s the same height as Draymond, maybe a hair taller, and Draymond is 6’5.75 without shoes.
He’s clearly taller than Draymond, and 4 years ago with G league Ignite he was listed at 6’7″
Peter, I’m impressed with your geekiness! I’m also a draft geek, so these things interest me a lot. The central question about JK was whether he was a 3 or a 4, so there was a lot of discussion about his measurements then. IMO, he’s a hair of 6’7″ in his bare feet.
You’re right about Draymond’s height, but from looking at the Warriors standing around together many times over the years, Kuminga is considerably taller than Draymond.
I’m looking now at several unofficial scouting measurements from 2019-21 (including the G-League Ignite stuff) where there is concern for accuracy.. He has never *measured* less than 6’7″ with his shoes on. FWIW, I see one credible measurements of 6’7.25″. We’ll never know for certain because Kuminga missed the NBA’s official pre-draft measurements in 2020:
link to nba.com
Another thing to keep in mind: Kuminga was an extremely young prospect, and he grew a lot over that period. The official G-League Ignite measurement for Kuminga at 7′, 222 pounds was taken on his 18th birthday (apparently there are rules about not contacting minors). The mean height increase for players from 18 years onward is 0.55″ and very few don’t grow at all.
I’m completely over the whole Kuminga thing personally. I really don’t want or need him any more. Giddey for Kuminga doesn’t make the Bulls better. Giddey AND Kuminga may or may not. Giddey for Kuminga makes the Bulls much worse IMO. Just sign Giddey and lets play for the play in since they won’t rebuild. It’s getting stupid but because of the NBA and their completely stupid salary and trade rules this is getting dragged out no reason at all.
> It’s getting stupid but because of the NBA and their
> completely stupid salary and trade rules this is
> getting dragged out for no reason at all.
For basketball nerds, yeah. But the offseason isn’t meant to be a spectator sport. IMO, this is the same stuff that’s always happened in the off-season, but the media can (sort of) cover it now. As far as the teams are concerned, it’s business as usual.
Nothing is happening until closer to Oct. 1st when they must take an offer. Only thing that will change it if a player on a playoff team going down withy serious injury and a team gets desperate to trade for 1 of the RFAs.
Aristotle- Any League that allows players to make like 50-60 million dollars a year and has a 146 million dollar “CAP”( Or whatever) is completely insane. You can add as many “Aprons” as you want but is that really the problem? Until the NBA comes back to reality and has just one CAP and makes it feasible it will be considered a joke by me. It needs a structure like baseball. There’s a Tax line. Cross it and you pay so much. Cross it by a lot and that % increases. Cross it so many years in a row and it increases more and affects draft picks. But the first thing you need to do is make the Tax number realistic to the salaries you’re paying C’mon! Hockey has a Cap on how much you can pay the top player on teams. Do that. But the facts are they need to step back and take a realistic look at what they’re doing. Because right now it isn’t realistic or manageable anymore. Adding Aprons is just putting earrings on a pig.
@Unclemike1526 I get your well-argue point, but the parties that care (league, owners, and players) are too happy with the way things are going to change. They’d say:
1) The CBA is working great: unprecedented competitive parity, small-market teams are winning titles, and dynasties are rendered impossible (see GSW and BOS).
2) The NBA is growing faster than any other major sport at 33% per year. (It should pass the NFL by 2033). Franchise valuations are growing faster than in any other sport, and players’ income is growing faster than in any other sport.
3) The ridiculously complex rules aren’t meant to be understood by fans or, even, media. The owners and league would tell you: don’t pay attention if it bothers you.
Baseball isn’t a good comparison. The NBA doesn’t believe it can survive without competitive parity.
@aristotle @NBA is OK @ChapmansVacuum
Kuminga is 6’6. No matter what his listed height is on basketball-reference, on the NBA website, on the GS website, in a video game or anywhere else. He took his shoes off, straightened his back, and was measured with a ruler at 6’6.
And he’s not much taller than Draymond. They’re almost the same height, I’d give Kuminga from a quarter to half an inch over Green.
Did he grow since his time in Ignite? Very doubtful. Yeah, he was young in the G-League. He’s from West Africa, though. Folks from there reach maturity and full adult height faster than any other group in the world. In 2025, a boy who’s not malnourished, doesn’t have Pituitary gland or other disorders, will have reached his adult height by 17-17.5. In rare cases, they may add a centimetre or two after that, but that’s very unusual. Kuminga was probably done growing by the time he was 16 or 16 and a half, considering his ethnicity.
I’m quite familiar with this topic as both my mother and my wife happen to measure teenage boys for a living :)
There’s too much talk in the NBA about ‘He got drafted at 18, he’s grown another inch or two after that, surely’. No, that’s just wishful thinking 99% of the time.
I was measured at 186cm (6’1.25) 3 months before turning 17. Recently, I was buying a bicycle, and measured myself again to select a frame size. I haven’t added a hair and still measure at 186cm.
Bronny hasn’t grown since he was somewhere in the 9th-10th grade.
Since 2024, draft combine measurements without shoes are mandatory for every prospect, thankfully. So we won’t have these talks anymore.
Websites will still list heights incorrectly. For example, basketball-reference and even the NBA website have Ron Holland and Risacher both at 6’8, but we know that Holland measured at 6’6.5 and Risacher at 6’8.5, so the Frenchman is 2 inches taller.
link to nba.com
He was 17 in ignite and lots of people especially tall NBA players keep growing after that age. Look at Giannis. Its that taller people keep growing. Wemby did after the age you talked about.
The teams do the reporting that ends up on a lot of the media guide books and site, and they have always shaded things for players. Like for some reason KD never wants to be listed at 7′ so hes always “6’10” “.
Wemby did grow after that age, so did Giannis. We know it as it was reported. Giannis was remeasured. Wemby did grow.
They are exceptions.
Kuminga didn’t, and most don’t. I bet if he played in a FIBA competition for DRC and was measured without shoes, he’d be at under 200cm, so 6’6 and change.
‘But I saw Kuminga stand next to/guard that guy, and they were the same height, and the other guy is 6’8′. It means that the other guy is also 6’6, and his height is listed incorrectly, too.
There’s so much mythification about NBA players’ height in America. As a European, it makes me giggle a bit. ‘He grew 4 inches in college’. ‘I was a late bloomer and was barely 6 foot tall as a senior in HS, and now I play C in the NBA’. ‘I got into the NBA, started doing yoga, and added an inch and a half’. I bet that had the guys telling those stories been properly measured the day they turned 18, virtually all of them would be at their adult height.
Most American players lie and add a couple of inches to their height. It starts in HS, continues in college, and carries over to the NBA.
Europeans tend to report their height correctly. And there’s never ‘in shoes’, ‘without shoes’ duality, as it would never cross anyone’s mind here to measure anybody in shoes, heels, platforms, stilts or whatever.
A person’s height = height barefoot.
Michael Jordan was measured at 6’4.75 for an international competition, and that’s his real height.
I’m not saying this to critisize Kuminga. It’s just a reality. He has a good size for a 3, and his combination of speed, strength and bounce allows him to score on bigger players. A lack of size becomes a problem when you can’t do anything against somebody bigger.
I wish my team, the Wizards, had traded for him and not for Whitmore, who’s listed at 6’7 but is actually 6’4.5-6’5.
Kuminga could use longer arms, though. He doesn’t have the prehistoric pterosaur-like wingspan that many other NBA players are blessed with.
Lots of pictures side by side disagree – here’s one from 3 years ago
Peter- you’re not going to convince me. I’ve seen him live too many times. I’d bet my life on it.
Weird, the link didn’t work. 2022 Finals:
link to bleacherreport.com
Good photo. Conclusive.
@NBA is OK C’mon, it’s just one photo and one angle. :) His right heel is not planted on the floor. Kuminga is marginally taller than Draymond, but not by much, about half an inch.
But I’m not going to argue too much. If the consensus here is that Kuminga is 6’8 or around there, so be it.
Peter- you’re swimming upstream on this one. A lot of us watch or attend pretty much every game, and you’re asking us to distrust our senses. JK is appreciably taller than Draymond.
Peter, just to clear, I’m not asserting that Kuminga grew after he was measured at 6’7” while he was 17-18 years old, only that there is a good chance that he did. (I have no idea.) It’s an empirical fact that over 1/2 the male population continues to get taller after turning 19 years old (more so with extremely tall people) which is why it’s germane to our discussion.
link to pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
OK, I won’t argue about Kuminga’s height, what’s in it for me anyway… But the next time you see him box out for a free throw against somebody who’s 6’8, like Looney (measured at 6’8) or Adem Bona (measured at 6’8.25), don’t be surprised why it looks like he’s giving up about 2 inches.
The study for the 80s is good, but you might want to look for something more fresh. My mother is a nurse at a military academy, my wife worked for FC Barcelona academy (with all sections – football, basketball, handball, ect.), and now works at a private pediatrics clinic. And the only thing I hear from them is that a chance for a boy to have non-marginal growth (more than 1 cm) as an adult is very small – like one in a hundred. Especially if they’re of African origin.
And in your country, kids develop and get to their full adult height faster than anywhere else in the world. I experienced it myself when I was an exchange student in D.C., and in my 9th grade, half of the boys looked like they were ready to go fight a war, and most girls looked like they could give birth to a healthy pair of twins and summit Denali 3 weeks later.
And none of them looked like their growth plates would remain open for 4-5 more years.
If the person is very very tall, like 7ft, then the chances of them still growing are higher, true. And most confirmed cases of late growth among NBA players are by some of the tallest guys – Giannis, Wemby, Sengun.
For guys that tall, maybe one in 20-30 adds substantial height past 18. Among the shorter ones, chances are even smaller.
I’ve been watching young Wizards for the last 2 years, and none of them look like they’ve grown.
The next time your team drafts an 18 y.o., don’t get your hopes too high.
When you get a little older you might actually start shrinking
You realize that was when he was like 17 right?
wingspan and body thickness > height
Kuminga is still a developmental player. At 20 mill plus a year you must be sure. Those three teams haven’t offered anything Warriors would consider. The new cap restrictions keep other teams away.
i like it but how do they work out the money to get both players paid is the question?
Both teams send out an additional player to a 3rd team with a exception to absorb them. It would be a guy in the 10-20M range depending on the contract size.
I like it too, arc89 and ChapmansVacuum. Moody for sure is that guy.
It depends. Moody makes 11M. It could end up needing to be more. Like if you give Giddy 28M, and the Bulls give Kuminga 23M. Then the outgoing on Kuminga would be 11.5M so you would need like 24M outgoing to still be able to go to the second apron. So for that circumstance its Moody and like Gui. since you can match 120%.
If you give Giddy 30M it gets trickier, especially if Kuminga was only getting like 18M where the discrepency can start to really throw it off.
On top of that CHI has to do something similar. It would be easier for them since it would be likely Kuminga would be getting less. They would still need to send out a 3-5M contract to a 3rd team.
The question also becomes who are each team sending these players to for no salary returning, and does it cost them anything to offload?
This would be best case scenario for the Bulls. Kuminga, Buzelis & Essengue is a really nice young forward trio.
It would be the same for Kuminga and the Warriors.
Yup, I said it in here, the best and most fun move for all 4 players/teams here is to do a 4-way trade where all 4 players do musical chairs and it’s a clean 1-for-1 deal for each team.
You also said JK was months away from the breakout that would turn him into the new Lebron. Is that still coming to fruition oh wise one?
Jimmy & Giddey …….. sharpshooters galore for these DUBS.
Jimmy’s not really a sharp shooter from long range and neither is Josh Giddey.
But they can get you 30 points any given night and they know how to move the ball. Why shoot threes when you have layups?
And when you have layups, then the curry brothers will be open for more threes. Sounds like it works all around to me?
Plus, you forget Horford can shoot the three, DeAndre Melton can shoot the three, and Malcolm Brogdon can hit the three.
You’re sarcasm doesn’t hold water and it’s not funny because it makes no sense.
He is just a warrior hater
I love the classics!
Warrior fans have thin skin ….
Now you’re getting personal again Al. Your comment has nothing to do with basketball.
You say you’re all about Hoops but you’re not. You love your little personal digs.
Gary, he does that all the time. lol most disgruntled fan of the game I ever encountered in my life.
What’s Giddy’s current contract? Minor detail the I wish was included in the article.
“Josh Giddey is currently in restricted free agency with the Chicago Bulls, and negotiations are ongoing for a new contract. While he is reportedly seeking a long-term deal around $30 million per year, the Bulls are initially offering around $20 million annually. Reports suggest a possible three-year deal in the $65-70 million range, but the exact terms are still being finalized.” Thanks to Google for this. it kinda sounds familiar.
The jury’s still out on Giddey’s shooting, but he’s improved each season and hit .378% last year. He’s clearly a better playmaker than Podz and has the tools to be a solid defender, he just needs to commit on that end.
> “…he has the tools to be a solid defender, he just needs to
> commit on that end.”
Disagree strongly with you there. He’s always been committed, but he will never have the lateral movement to be a good on-ball defender. That’s been the book on Giddey since before he was drafted and it was one reason OKC determined he didn’t fit.
Giddey can be the Warriors starting PG when Steph retires, but You cannot play Giddey and Steph at the same time.
@Gary ……. bro, say Josh gets his 25-30M/year from Dunleavy.
Him and Jimmy making near 90M/year necessitates that they be used and used extensively …… a sight of Jimmy and Giddey with Steph, Draymond and whoever come the 4th quarter won’t be scaring most of the West.
I’ve long been posting on these threads about Jimmy’s passiveness and how it will sporadically hound these DUBS as it did the HEAT.
I’ve been proven correct on this during the last playoffs ……. I quote one Dwyane Tyrone Wade Jr: ……. “”He won’t look at the basket. And I’ve seen this before. I’ve seen it in the Heat jersey.”
Jimmy will never change despite getting his joy back.
To his credit, Giddey did take that small leap (despite being a contract year and despite the small sample size) ……. but not so much that we declare him to be the next Penny.
A very disjointed HEAT were chomping on this bits during that last play-in.
Yes, Horford, Melton and Brogdon will be great additions and yes, they can hit threes ……. I’ve long been a Melton fan (still flabbergasted by what the GRIZZ did).
DUBS better look somewhere else. Giddey isn’t it.
@mike.honcho – I think you make some really good points, but I like to see Jimmy’s passiveness as not trying to force it. He can’t really rely on that same athleticism anymore and still brings so much more to the game that he’s a positive impact regardless of his offensive aggression. I do agree that Giddey and Jimmy are redundant and that warriors probably should look elsewhere if they’re trying to pay him $25mil
> I do agree that Giddey and Jimmy are redundant
The redundancy is with PODZ. Although I prefer Giddey’s long-term value, Podz is a much better fit as the backup PG and 2 guard alongside Steph.
First, Podz will be making only $5M per year for the next 2 years, about $20-$25M less than Giddey. Second, Podz is a better shooter and on-ball defender than Giddey. You can’t play Giddey and Steph together for defensive reasons.
I hear you, Mike. I’m one who appreciates your comments and they contain a lot of truth and you don’t make fun of the Warriors too much.
I’m just busting your chops on this particular one and that’s OK once in a while. Gotta keep you on the straight and narrow path you know. Just kidding, all good bro.
I actually like Josh Giddey‘s game. I think he keeps the ball moving and he can get to the hole and he has a lot of talent on offense.
But defensively he’s less than horrible. Even at 6-8 you’d probably have to hide him and the other four on the floor will have to cover for him all the time.
But in these last couple of years, trying to make a run with curry, he might be the offensive guy that would make everything work.
Plus, I’ve been saying Greymond needs to come off the bench next year, so that takes one non-shooter off the floor. And anything Graymond does offensively can be covered by Jimmy, like initiate the offense at the top of the key.
@Gary …… Bro, I only make fun of Lacob’s light-year comment, Kerr’s lack of development gene and Draymond’s shenanigans.
Otherwise, Steph and the WARRIORS have been great to the modern game and fans everywhere for a decade now.
I want to be clear – I only dislike Giddey for these DUBS, just because I don’t think he fits as well and they have far greater needs e.g. agile/rim-running/lob-threat big, 3D, half-decent scoring guard, etc.
Like I said, Giddey did make a leap when he went to the BULLS, showed a bit more burst in his step, actually plowed more going to the basket …… I just don’t think he fits seamlessly with Steph and company.
Maybe Dunleavy is kinda forced to look at this option, seeing as the trade partners and cap space have virtually dried-up.
the 2 reported trade offers for Kuminga were terrible trade offers so i rather have a GM pass then make a terrible trade. Look at the CBA and how it has tied up the warriors hands on make any offer to Kuminga. Not a lot MD can do but wait it out.
> To his credit, Giddey did take that small leap (despite being
> a contract year and despite the small sample size)
> but not so much that we declare him to be the next Penny.
Good point. Giddey’s 3 years in OKC have to be considered when evaluating him, and that was, in the end, a disappointment. Chicago recognized that it had the perfect developmental situation for him. He got to play a lot of minutes in low-pressure situation.
Giddey would be a terrible fit on the Warriors. There is no way this trade happens without some other big pieces moving.
The last thing the Warriors need, especially if Kuminga is gone, is another unathletic player that can’t shoot or guard the perimeter. If you thought our defense against the Timberwolves was bad, well, Giddey would take it down another level.
Giddey is now a PG — great feel for the game, great playmaker. But OKC determined that Giddey was not an off-guard, mainly because of his outside shooting, but also because he couldn’t stay in front of anybody. I don’t see Giddey playing beside Steph.
Also, the overlap between Giddey and Podz is too great. I don’t see a future with GSW for Podz if Giddey comes.
I don’t think you need to worry about Giddey coming to the warriors because the amount of money needed to sign him is even worse than Kuminga. I doubt Giddey would take a smaller deal to play for the warriors. He made it clear he wants 5/150 and has not backed down.
arc89, Curiously, I’d say Giddey and Kuminga are valued similarly right now across the NBA, both in their own eyes and the eyes of the league. They both want close to $30 and are being offered in the low $20’s. Giddey has a higher floor and lower ceiling.
That’s what makes this trade idea possible, even though Giddey’s fit on the Warriors doesn’t work.
problem is the warriors would need to trade Moody to make the money space to offer Giddey s close to a deal he wants. they would need to find a team that can fit $13 million under the cap without giving up a draft pick. If they trade Heild to get $10 million back then they are trading away a future 1st round pick to get somebody to take him that woukld not be protected. To high of a cost to get Giddey.
I think he’d be a goof fit on GSW.
Might be a good fit but I doubt he will drop his demands to come to the warriors. Why would he change his asking price to play for teh warriors?
Better chance for a ring this season, and the future post Steph.
rarely happens a player taking a pay cut for a ring.
> I think he’d be a goof fit on GSW.
I’d love to hear why.
This is only your 2nd comment that I had a reply option, so I’ll start with height, and excellent rebounding and passing ability.
Then, a response to your comment without a reply option:
“Podz is a better shooter” (He shot 44.5%/37.2%/75.8% with 55.7% TS.
Not last season. Giddey finished at 46.5&/37.8%/78.1% (57% TS) after a slow start getting used to the Bulls’ system. Since January, in 41 games he shot 47.5%/42.6% (on 4.0 3PAs)/80.5%, which is a decent sample size.
@NBAisOK – I have the same probs with you, Davey, and EZMoneySniper :—) Anyway, you’re smarter than me about these things, so I’m surprised you’re taking this PoV…
Podz is a natural shooter and Giddey (33% career) is not. Podz went through a bad spell early last year, but he was the best shooter in college basketball the year he was drafted. IIRC, he shot 43% from deep that year. He shot 39% as a rookie. In the 2nd half of last season, he shot 42%.
Unlike Podz, defenses want Giddey to shoot. He’s a career 33% shooter. He won’t space the floor.
Young Giddey’s 3 pt shot is trending up. Considering his other responsibilities playing pass-1st PG, I have faith that the 40 game sample size is enough to prove he can shoot the 3 ball.
Wrt Podz’s 3 pt shooting in college, the weak WCC (only 4 out of 10 teams that season had winning conference records) was helpful in his achieving that number. With his injuries last season, it’s hard to tell, but his shooting shrunk in the playoffs overall and from three (36%/33%)
@aristotle which is funny, because I see both Giddey and Podz in the Giannis package, along with Moody and Jimmy or Draymond.
Lacob’s top 3 dream trios:
Steph-Giannis-deep bench
Steph-Giannis-Dray
Steph-Lebron-Dray
Why do people act like Jimmy and GSW were neither side’s first choice? Jimmy will likely be traded for another superstar making $50M+ during his time at GSW.
@aristotle
Do you think playing with Jimmy and Draymond Green will have zero effect on Giddey’s defense? Wrong.
Might just work, but seems like connecting them based on their contract situation is a bit of a stretch
I feel like this was floated a week or so ago and dismissed because its nearly impossible to make the money work. Luke Adams what do you say?
“A double sign-and-trade is a difficult maneuver to pull off, as the rules regarding base year compensation mean that the salaries going out would only count for 50% of their annual average value to the team trading them, but would count fully for the team receiving the player. Since that would apply to both the Bulls and Warriors in such a deal, any double sign-and-trade would likely necessitate a third team getting involved.”
It’s not impossible, but it’s very complicated and remains unlikely, IMO.
Luke, OT, but how often do you find credible sources will occasionally just make s**t up?
Wouldn’t consider them credible if the answer was anything besides “never.”
Luke, good to know. Let me rephrase: given your absolute standard for trust, how often, if ever, are you forced to remove somebody from your list of trusted sources?
@aristotle It’s not all that frequent, but it’s certainly happened before. There are also some that never get added to that list.
Lol, sure, sure they are. The NBA silly season continues.
Speaking as a Warriors fan: if Giddey is the 4th guy, GSW are WCF minimum
This is so obviously a planted story by the Warriors that it’s frankly embarrassing for the reporter.
Could be the bulls planted it. Warriors scouted Giddey before he got drafted and warriors may have picked him over Kuminga.
Right. Warriors desperately want to do this trade and Bulls said no, and the Dubs are pissed because they have no other good options, so they leak that the Bulls are “hard to work with.”
Nothing says that. Bulls do not want to trade him is what been reported. Does not say the warriors are pissed. It wasn’t leaked by the warriors it is another sport writer making up an article. Why are you blaming the warriors because just looking at the article there is no way possible for the trade to happen?
Giddey is legit two tiers above Kuminga as a player unless the warriors are adding some more to the package there’s no way the bulls were floating this around lol
Could you elaborate on “two tiers above”?
Well, IMO they’re the rebounding and passing tiers.
It really is embarrassing
The Bulls traded a 20 minute per night role player for a younger guy who nearly averaged a triple double and they are embarrassed about not getting draft picks?
And
The warriors would’ve taken Giddey in the draft… Wiggins was a huge question mark and hadn’t signed an extension. The Steph, Klay and Jordan Poole backcourt was in full swing, no way do they draft another combo guard. They were drafting a SF every time. By the way, Franz went with the next pick AFTER Kuminga.
Druu, Bob Myers. Enough said.
Bob Meyers was terrible at drafting. He gets all this praise but when it came to drafting players he gets a F. His 1 player he did draft that did well Poole he signed at a horrible contract after 1 good year. I just wish MD drafted Yang and traded to move up in the draft to get him Portland got a center to build around for the decade.
Double sign and trade…wow. The ultimate offseason move. Triple sign and trade would be badaas though. Wonder what the most trades ever was
Bulls won’t let Giddey get away.
And the Ws will eventually relent and deal Kuminga to the Kings or Suns.
Probably right on Giddy, but no way in hell with Kuminga. Like the Suns have made the best offer they can make pretty much and GSW are completely uninterested. I doubt SAC puts Murray or Ellis on the table and without them no go. Kuminga re signs and is traded mid year when his salary matches in full.
Chap, This is the best business decision for the Warriors to make. I’m sure it’s the only solution to this problem.
Neither the Warriors nor Kuminga are in favor of it, but it’s the only way this works.
Gary, we agree and it’s time to double the stakes on those slippery nipples.
Here you go: Kuminga will be with the Warriors longer than Steve Kerr. Kerr has 1 year left on his deal, although there is a scenario that he will be back for a 2nd. (If Kuminga is traded, it’ll be for assets that help the team in future years more than this one.)
Why? Because Lacob and Dunleavey are also planning for what comes next. If not, the value of the franchise drops, literally, billions. As Kawakami just reported, Lacob couldn’t care less about the current squabbling. If you don’t believe me, then take it from Lacob: the Warriors absolutely, positively will have a young core ready to go at the start of the 2027-28 season. “Great franchises retain young talent. Bad ones don’t.”
Yup. Its like that diplomacy game on lower decks, where everyones meh happy, so you know its a fair deal.
> Yup. Its like that diplomacy game on lower decks,
> where everyones meh happy, so you know its a fair deal.
And there you have it.
“And the Ws will eventually relent and deal Kuminga to the Kings or Suns.”
Unless the Kings put Keegan Murray in the deal, no shot GSW makes a trade with the Kings. The Suns don’t have anything to offer at all. It is better off for all parties to trade Kuminga on or after Dec 15 when all teams general directions are clearer.
Would love to see this for my Warriors, but would dread and hate to see this for my Bulls. In my eyes, the Bulls just got the young star they needed to have; if they had a better core, I think they would have better success. The Bulls, for the love of God, better not trade him—he has already done so much in just one year.
Seems like the Bulls only want Kuminga if they have Giddey too, which doesn’t make a lot of sense to me because they’re both ball-dominant and neither plays much defense. Don’t know that you can take that much of a lack of defense, given the rest of their lineup.
Giddey > Kuminga, hands down.
The Bulls should only do this if they can get a couple of FRPs with Kuminga!
Yes exactly. Josh Giddey is a basketball player and when he has the ball in his hands, he knows what to do with it.
Jonathan Kuminga is an athlete. And when he has the ball on his hands, he’s not sure what he’s going to do with it, but he’s going to the hole And then when or if he gets there, he’s gonna jump and hope it works out.
> And then when or if he gets there, he’s gonna jump and
> hope it works out.
55% ain’t bad.
No matter how intriguing the idea of bringing Kuminga to the Bulls might be, it’s hard to look past the likelihood that the Bulls FO will find a way to screw it up somehow. Doesn’t even matter the outcome- they make the trade or they don’t- Bulls FO will find a way to make a mess of things.
While Giddey’s stock is rising faster than Kuminga’s, watch the Bulls FO give the Warriors Giddey and 2 firsts for Kuminga or something hilarious
And six months later decide that Kuminga isn’t a good fit for playing alongside Huerter and Williams, then offload him for three 2nd-round draft picks.
How can the warriors Front office be this delusional? Nobody is going to want to play for them after how they are treating Kuminga this off-season.
Not just this off season.
They have maybe the best reputation in the league with how they treat players and the quality of their facilities. Nobody cares about them doing this to Kuminga when he is one of 4 RFA all in the same boat. This is what RFA looks like now and all 4 are still trying to get what they might have in the same situation 5 years ago.
Kuminga has ignored the coaches to do what he wants. Most of the league can see that. Its the real reason he isnt generating more offers despite his tantalizing abilities and age. When he doesnt get his way he complains about his coach to the media like a kid. I see this stuff you think the people paid to do this for a living for other teams dont? He acts like hes some vet star when he has barely been in the league, has lots to learn, and hasnt yet become good enough to be an alpha.
Ask Durant, Poole and Kuminga how they treat their players. Everything you’ve said is your opinion, outside looking in with your Golden State coloured glasses on. Iggy and Payton 111 shown the door because Golden State wouldn’t pay them more. Only to bring them back. Bogut same goes. Barnes etc. Thanks for the ring, bye. Golden State have stunted the growth of Kuminga big time. Every fanbase outside San Fran can see that. Moody never been given a fair crack meanwhile Podz out here stinking it up and playing plenty of minutes. How do you know Kuminga has not listened to the coaching staff? Thanks for the ring Wiggins. Podz playing so much is laughable. Thanks Looney but, we arent paying you more, even though youve sacrificed your salary and future wealth for years….bye. The treatment and development of Wiseman was also laughable.
Nrg82 on the surface your comment makes sense to the entire world, but there’s a lot of truth you’re leaving out.
The Warriors loved Durant. He did his time and he moved on. No explanation needed.
He likes change. He’s single all the Warriors are married and have families except for klay who sticks to himself.
Durant was bored and Greymond called him out when he started thinking of himself ahead of the team. I actually side with Durant on that whole ordeal, but he did his time and left.
Poole ? He was an immature kid whose head got a little too big. He ran his mouth as perhaps a veteran would, but hadn’t earned respect through veteran conduct maturity or experience.
He shined when the Warriors needed him and won a ring for them, but the respect didn’t come with it because of his attitude.
He wanted his payday and got it because the Warriors are an excellent organization and they take care of their own.
But in the NBA the paycheck is everything with ego, seats on the plane, locker room location, etc. Jordan Poole got a little too big for his britches and they sent him out of town as quick as they could.
Iggy ? The Warriors LOVE Andre Iguodala and everything he did for them. I think he is mostly responsible for the championships he was part of.
More responsible than Greymond curry and Thompson. His defense leadership and all the tangibles he brought was massive. They retired his number though he never averaged 20 points a game for them.
The business decision to let him go was due to salary cap rules. Andre is a proud man and being let go at 35 still didn’t sit well with him. He wanted to be a Warrior and stay with the team till the end.
Warriors couldn’t do that at the time And needed his cap space. (I can’t remember why but was it the Durant sign and trade with D’Angelo Russell? That they had to get under a certain cap level?)
Andre Iguodala has earned millions in the NBA and has to understand it’s a business but even today he’s bitter about certain things in his career.
Instead of doing podcasts, holding his head high for a job well done he cries and moans about how he was treated and how the league is rotten to its core.
He complains about the cheating, the refs billionaire owners, and how the players are ripped off.
That’s OK he can use his voice anyway he likes. Warriors still retired his number in a thank you gesture for everything he contributed.
Payton 111 ? He didn’t receive his first guaranteed contract until he was 28 years old and with the Warriors. They found a way to use his limited skill set and he helped them win a ring. He was huge for them.
As a result, and this often happens in the NBA, you should know this Nrg 82, championship teams are broken up because guys get paid. He went from a minimum contract guy to Portland offering him $12 million per year. Or was it nine? Anyway, he got paid. The Warriors were happy for him and congratulated him. That’s just how the week works.
Payton was NOT shown the door because Golden State wouldn’t pay him more. Gary Payton played well, won a ring and got paid. That’s a win-win in anyone’s book.
Bogut? I can’t remember what happened with him. Might’ve been the same thing as with Andre Iguodala. They couldn’t keep his salary at that time because of D’Angelo Russell or bringing in Andre Iguodala or something similar. I’d have to go to Google to see the details. Wasn’t he traded to Memphis or the Lakers? I think he didn’t last long after that because he was cooked.
That was the second time when he just retired. They were even thinking of bringing him back again the next year when he was playing in OZ, but he had lost a step and was done.
I think he was referencing when they let Bogut leave the first time. Although if I remember that might have been part of clearing the cap room for Durant. Might have been the year before too.
Barnes? Graymond and Klay took discounts for the good of the team. Around 17 mill apiece.
Barnes said no way I want to get paid. He wasn’t down with the program. That’s fine, reject the offer.
So he took the money in Dallas, 25 mil. Good for him. The Warriors went after Andre Iguodala to plug in the hole at small forward. No problem.
“Golden State has stunted the growth of Kuminga big time?”
I’ve written on this ad nauseam the last two years. You alone are responsible for your growth. Stop pointing fingers everywhere else.
Sure, the Warriors have to take part of the blame. Everyone knows that. But with 10 development coaching staff members, I think there was plenty of attention given to Jonathan Kuminga the last four years.
I mean its just hard to have developmental min, where really raw mistake prone players get full run, when your trying to make the playoffs in a super competitive conference. More bad circumstances than bad decisions.
@Gary RSW
It’s all relative. He was drafted 1 spot ahead of Franz. Thanks to Kerr’s limiting his minutes, in the same number of seasons he’s started 61% fewer games and played 32% fewer minutes.
“Moody never been given a fair crack?” LOL !!!!!!!!!!
I’ve written more on Moody than almost any other player. He sucks and there’s nothing you can do about it.
He can’t learn quickness and he can’t learn basketball basics and he can’t learn strength and he can’t learn vision.
But he can learn shooting and I’ll give him that. He has a nice three point stroke. Plus he’s a good kid he’ll play hurt etc. But nice kids don’t win championships.
Nice kids get taken care of and get nice contracts, and the warriors have done that. Jordan Poole gets traded out of town but Moses Moody is nice to have around.
But mistreated? That’s false. Not given a chance that’s false. He started plenty of games and I think he averaged 20 minutes a game last year?
“Podski out here stinking it up and playing plenty of minutes?”
Brandin knows what he’s doing out there. Offensively and defensively. The only thing that he struggled with this last season is his shot, but it was better at the end of the season and in the playoffs.
I guarantee you right now. He has worked on his shot this summer and he’s worked on it hard. He knows it’s everything and will open up everything for him.
He’s a smart player and will do whatever it takes to win, including being among lead leaders in charges taken. I think he does everything he can with the body he has.
If the Warriors improve the roster, he’s a nice backup point guard.
“Thanks for the ring Wiggins.” yes thanks for the ring Wiggins. And you’re welcome for the ring Wiggins. But that’s something you can be proud of the rest of your life. You lead a team to a championship. Bravo !! Warriors nation salutes you.
But the other side of the coin we’ve been seeing for five years is that Wiggins is another moody in many ways.
Great measurements on the body, but doesn’t use it to his full potential. You expect so much more with that length that size and the willingness to be better. But it just does not come together for them.
Not everyone 6-6 210 and incredibly athletic becomes an NBA star. It’s like 1 million to one.
I could write a book on Wiggins, but I’ll say he played better for the Warriors than he did at any other time in his career. That’s the warrior system. That’s the Warriors coaching. That’s the Warriors game plan. Andrew Wiggins played very well for ONE season.
But he left so much to be desired from the three spot. If they could find a way to get a real star at that position, they would do it. And they did it.
I’ve written books on Looney and Wiseman.
You’re wrong in your assessment of both these guys.
So there you go. 78 chapters and an encyclopedia on why everything you wrote in your comment is wrong.
Gary, I loved reading all your posts — passionate and I know you’re sure you speak the truth.
But, please, take this the right way: @nrg82 is merely stating how vast majority of the country sees the Warriors over the last 3 years, which is that we’re as as f****d up as any in pro sports.
When @nrg82 and others mock Warriors fans for being delusional, it’s because of what’s been reported in the media — virtually all of it is verifiably true. And none of which you mention.
It’s not a hoax. We want to pretend that Draymond Green hasn’t been suspended numerous times for violence. That Draymond, basically assaulted Jordan Poole, on TMZ, and was never punished by the team; that Draymond’s misconduct continues, and the coach’s repeated public commitments to not tolerate it have been broken; that multiple young players have publicly complained through their agents about being misled by the coach; and that KD has publicly stated that players don’t like Kerr.
Opposing fans ridicule us because we refuse to even acknowledge what they believe are facts.
I’m with you, Ari and I always take your comments the right way. You’re always looking out for me and I appreciate it.
Thank you, Gary. Sincerely.
No its based on most players, most recently this season with both Buddy and Jimmy raving about how great the organization is to the players, and their families.
Durant had a wandering eye, and it didnt stop here. He also had ego issues with Steph getting the credit.
Poole got punched, and man I wish I had the audio of what he said right before. The team though kept him relatively happy, and managed to make it work for a full season despite that.
Kuminga may have gripes about not being allowed to start and play 35min a night whether he deserves it or not, but I think the team has treated him and his family well. Up until low balling him a little hard this offseason they have been great to Kuminga
None of those have anything to do with how the team treats players really at all. If the coach decides not to play a guy thats there call.
Iguadala got traded because they had to in order to get Russell, then Wiggins, then another ring for Andre. Payton got over paid by POR, and he still was sooooo happy to return to GSW and the medical personal here.
Like are you seriously just listing FA that left when they got more money than GSW could pay them, or were traded like you know happens in pro sports? Every team has guys they wouldnt pay or let walk man every single team.
They hated to trade Wiggins, but you cant say it wasnt the right move, or that they werent much better with Butler.
Guess what its the NBA guys get traded, and contracts get negotiated. Welcome to reality, I cant believe I have to point that out to you. Its a business get your feelings out of it.
Wiseman played as a starter and main rotation player until he landed akward and broke his knee. He then missed over a year, when the team didnt rush him back mind you despite being in a playoff race. He then was given more chances to get back going once he returned before GSW cut bait and traded him while he still had value. He hasnt gone nuts since he left has he? So GSW made the right move trading him when they did, right? What on earth did they do wrong with Wiseman? Besides drafting him…
Chapman- I know it’s a minority opinion around here, but I’d say there’s much more to the Wiseman story.
In the end, we traded Wiseman only 28 months after we drafted him, at 21 years old. Wilt, Kareem, Russell were 23 in their rookie NBA seasons.
On its face, the presumption was absurd: that a 19 year old 7-footer could go directly to the NBA, without college experience and only minimal training, and, moreover, play in sophisticated system on a championship team. It was grossly mismanaged. Even Kerr said that afterwards.
Wiseman just turned 24. Before the Achilles injury a year ago, he reportedly played well enough with Indiana in training camp to win the backup C job. He’s basically lost 3 of 5 seasons to COVID and injuries. He’s still at the beginning of his career.
I mean I got why they drafted him. Like I watched those workouts of him doing cross overs and side step 3s. I was super stoked he fell to them. He just couldnt do anything defensively. He was so bad at defensive positioning where he would either close to much and foul or just not alter the shot at all by being to far away. It was also brutal him constantly having his toe on the line so a bunch of his 3s were 2s.
I think he would still have a lot of potential at his age since bigs take time to develop defensively, but he just hasnt shown any ability to stay healthy so far. I worry too that he has now had several major lower body injuries that could prematurely sap him of the athleticism that made him so tantalizing offensively. I hope he can get right, but more so I hope he can finally learn at least avg defense. He sort of organically lost playing time as his defensive atrociousness just murder the +/- every time he touched the floor. Seems like a super nice kid though where if he hadnt had the injuries I would have totally loved him coming back full circle to GSW on a min or something and found his career in a lower expectation role.
Great post. You make the obvious counter-arguments to mine, so I think we’ve said pretty much everything about James Wiseman.
When Jama Mahlalela joined as Associate Coach (after a successful stint in Toronto) in 2021, along with an extravagantly expensive team, he said that placing young players without college experience on an NBA court was comparable to placing a high school graduate in a PhD program. (The problems that you mention with Wiseman are an example.) He said his job was to ensure a gradual, predictable course for Wiseman, JK, and Moody over several years. In December 2022, after a rocky start to the season, the Warriors’ grand plan for player development was scrapped (Kerr and Draymond being outspoken critics). After the season, Mahlalela and his team returned to Toronto.
I’m not relieving Wiseman, Kuminga, and Moody of responsibility for their disappointing performance, but there is plenty of blame to go around.
Im not sure they scrapped the development thing it was more that they always prioritized competing above all else. It just was a west where they had a larger margin of error when they started the plan, and it got progressively deeper. Like outside the fast starts and fast crashes to follow they havent really had a comfortable place in the standings since ’23. After Wiggins and Klays super slow starts they were finally rolling and getting somewhere before Wiggins left for his dad.
> Im not sure they scrapped the development thing.
> it was more that they always prioritized competing
> above all else.
They really did scrap it. There were formal decisions, the organizational capability that had been built was ended, and people were let and/or quit at various levels of the organization. It wasn’t that they “prioritized competing above all else”, but that they determined that the plan to involve young players in competing wouldn’t work.
This is the story of “we’re light years ahead of everybody else” and the misunderstood “two timelines”. I can say more if you’re interested.
Are you saying teh same thing about the 4 clubs with RFA not signed? Come on players will want to play for the warriors but they know the warriors money is tied up in the 3 top players so they are handcuffed.
OKC would like to once again thank the bulls for gifting them caruso
Caruso was the final piece for OKC, but really Giddey is a better fit for whatever stage Chi is in. Are they rebuilding? Making a run? Languishing in the middle? Giddey is probably a more valuable asset to a non-contender.
That’s a win-win trade bro
Kuminga for white makes a lot of sense and fits. Snuggly in a trade
Chi can have both players
Crunch, is this one of those takes of yours where you’re just winding people up?
I don’t think anyone around here needs to be wound
Just connecting (potential) dots
Gotcha
This trade will only benefit the Warriors, so no thank you
Warriors need something to balance out having washed up-since-2023 Steve Kerr as coach.
Seeing all these Warriors and Bulls fans collide on this thread indicates that these are 2 most active fanbases on Hoopsrumors.
You can’t blame the Bull’s fans they are just upset about how badly the team is ran. The team was starting to put it togetehr but then collapsed again. Giddey has the most upside of the team. They have a lot of average players and need a redo. They will have payroll next year to bring in a top player.
The funny part is there is an argument for if the Warriors don’t win another title in the next 1-2 years, then their path towards becoming the current Bulls becomes even more evident.
Take a Curry prime and add Kerr = prime has been minimized
Even with everything he has done, we could have gotten so much more out of Curry. Kerr was never the guy to unlock him, he cant unlock anyone. He is a nepo “lifetime” employee of the NBA who has never been elite at anything except going 1-2 from 3 in every game lol
Still like Kuminga S/T for Richards/Dunn and two seconds. This is not an unrealistic scenario.
GSW doesnt want Richards theyre signing Horford as the starter and already have Post and TJD in house as depth options. Im not sure if Dunn has been offered, but there are still some similar FA that GSW could sign once they sign or trade JK. Seconds arent worth anything in a package for a rotation player or a star. They can just buy seconds. If your value is coming from picks rather than players, you dont have any that have value…
Richards is probably better than either TJD or Post as a defender and with Horford as the “starter” they are going to need someone in the post to defend bigs. I just don’t see TJD/Post as a real backup tandem. I like both of them, but more as fours. I know W’s don’t like to commit salary at the five, but Looney did a lot of dirty work that old Horford can’t be expected to to provide for 82 games and be good to go in the playoffs. W’s need a big body.
The warriors asked for Dunn but was told he is not available. They offered O’Neale wanting to get rid of his bad contract which the warriors do not want.
@JBS, everything you say would make total sense for most any other team in the league. But I’m assuming you’re not a Dubs’ fan, otherwise you’d know that Steve Kerr will never play Richards because of what Richards CANNOT do, not what he can.
Defensively, Richards struggles to switch, he can’t guard the PnR and can’t guard the PnR. Offensively, Richards can screen effectively, but he can’t catch or pass the ball well enough to participate in the motion offense.
Suns have said they aren’t trading Dunn.
@DaveyJ, Warriors won’t fall like the Bulls because they have a highly motivated, hands-on owner. The Bulls have an absentee owner. Also, Lacob is beholden to a group of outside investors whose investment in the Warriors is dependent on the quality of the product. The Bulls owner is accountable to no one.
Everybody wants Steph to play forever, but don’t think for a moment there isn’t already a plan in the works for what comes next. That may not result in a more titles, but they will be in the mix. Th LA Dodgers or Man City FC
This article on the Valkyries is relevant because the same long-term planning approach is used for the Dubs.
link to theringer.com
Click bait
@aristotle – yes, the long term plan is for Giannis to take over from Steph.
And the beat goes on —— a Dance classic …..
Warriors have know since last year they wanted to move Kuminga getting Jimmy at TD. Only made that more obvious. Even Kerr is on record saying “we don’t have mins for him. Jimmy plays his position “. Imo the stories about Lacob the owner liking Kuminga must be true. Cause I don’t see why he is still here today.
The only thing that has changed up until today. Was Curry getting hurt in playoffs. Then Kuminga stepping up. And reminding the NBA that KnickerbockerAl called Kuminga. Best 2way talent at his draft.
So now we are here in a time where the salary cap prohibits offers for Kuminga. And the Warriors from offering a market value contract. Cause we all know Warriors need their cap space to sign FAs in waiting, wink wink.
Well Oct 1st the offers get smaller (7.9 mill).
What I don’t understand is. If you have known all year. You didn’t want Kuminga. Why weren’t they shopping him. Seeing what the market was. So they know who they can go to. When they were ready to move him. You tell me you wait till Curry got hurt. To say Oh wait he does have talent. So now we will hold out for more.
What I see is a team. That doesn’t see any offers out there. Worth losing the ability to sign Horford and Melton. So is good with moving him after Oct 1st for that 7.9 mill. Cause then they will get more value for Kuminga. Horford, Melton, trade package for Kuminga.
Warriors can accept young players, draft picks, both. Cause they have added the players they wanted most.
> the long term plan is for Giannis to take over from
> Steph.
@DaveyJ there are too many times I’ve been wrong in criticizing your (apparently) extreme ideas, so I won’t do that here :—)
But I wish you’d drop this Giannis thing because, even though we know the Dubs are trying, it’s a long-shot at best. For so many reasons. First, there at least 3 other teams that can offer very superior packages. Second, I don’t believe Lacob will ever give up the farm because that precludes future success.
Having said that, expect a Giannis announcement next week.
@aristotle
“But I wish you’d drop this Giannis thing because, even though we know the Dubs are trying, it’s a long-shot at best. For so many reasons.”
Who cares? Its Lacob’s dream, not mine. He and MDJ are lining everything up to prep a package for Giannis. Its a fact. We can’t ignore it anymore, if it wasn’t happening, they would have flipped Kuminga for pennies on the dollar.
“First, there at least 3 other teams that can offer very superior packages.”
But WILL they? Also will Giannis want to go there? It’s a 2-way street. Giannis loves Steph and GSW can make Giannis the #1 because Steph knows how to play off ball. No other team can offer Giannis that, there’s always another egomaniac star on every other team who would push back.
“Second, I don’t believe Lacob will ever give up the farm because that precludes future success.”
I think the “2 timelines” thing has already been given up on, and will be unloaded in the Giannis package.
Also, Jimmy wanted to go to like 5 different teams instead of GSW, and GSW wanted like 20 other players before Jimmy – if you think that is a “cemented” place on a team, you are wrong. Jimmy is absolutely trade bait. Lacob’s dream is Steph+Giannis+depth or Steph+Giannis+Dray. It will remain that unless Giannis says he wants out, which he will when he sees how badly Milwaukee’s FO has screwed up the roster. I mean, Kyle Kuzma? No. Giannis will want out come Dec 15 or after.
Davey, all I’m saying is let’s talk about the likely, not the unlikely. I agree that the Warriors are proabaly trying to pick up Giannis, but I’d put the odds at less than 10%. What would you put them at?
> We can’t ignore it anymore, if it wasn’t happening, they would have flipped
> Kuminga for pennies on the dollar.
I disagree. Lacob won’t ever sell low, especially on young players. Without JK, either to play or trade for something of equal value, this is a play-in, not a playoff team. If they trade JK in by February, it’ll be for an asset that helps them over future years, not just this year.
Davey, everybody (including me) can HOPE that Steph will be around and great at 40 years old, but nobody can COUNT on it. The current plan is to focus all resources into the next 1 year, and, if it goes well, do it a 2nd year. If it goes badly in this upcoming year, the rebuild will start immediately. Barring Giannis’s arrival, this team is no more than 2 seasons away from a massive overhaul.