Charania’s Latest: Lakers, Rozier, J. Richardson, Crowder

Hornets guard Terry Rozier was on the Lakers‘ radar over the offseason as a potential trade candidate, and Los Angeles still has a “high” level of interest in him, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic.

As Charania outlines, the Lakers and Hornets explored possible three- and four-team trade scenarios involving Rozier during the summer, but his availability during the season will depend on how Charlotte performs.

As Kevin O’Connor of The Ringer noted earlier today, Charlotte was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Lakers guard Russell Westbrook earlier in the year, but that was when the Hornets were interested in moving off some multiyear salary in preparation of a lucrative new deal for Miles Bridges. With Bridges’ basketball future up in the air, that may no longer be a priority.

Still, it’s possible that if the Hornets fall out of playoff contention, a deal structured around Westbrook, Rozier, and perhaps Gordon Hayward (who is owed $31.5MM in 2023/24) could appeal to the team, despite a reduced need to create future financial flexibility.

Here’s more from Charania:

  • The Lakers have had preliminary discussions in recent weeks about a possible trade involving Spurs swingman Josh Richardson, sources tell Charania. San Antonio still has a significant amount of cap room available this season and could take on Westbrook’s contract without having to match salaries. However, the Spurs would need to trade at least one more player in addition to Richardson to be able to absorb Westbrook’s $47MM+ cap hit.
  • Charania reiterates that the Bucks, Heat, and Hawks are potential suitors for veteran forward Jae Crowder, who remains away from the Suns as they seek a trade. According to Charania, Phoenix and Milwaukee have engaged in some recent discussions about a possible deal involving Crowder.
  • As we relayed in a full story earlier this morning, Charania also reported that the Timberwolves have discussed possible extensions with Naz Reid and Jaylen Nowell.

Wolves Have Discussed Extensions With Naz Reid, Jaylen Nowell

The Timberwolves have engaged in talks with big man Naz Reid and swingman Jaylen Nowell about possible contract extensions, reports Shams Charania of The Athletic.

Reid has been a regular part of the Timberwolves’ frontcourt rotation since 2019, averaging 9.5 PPG, 4.2 RPG, and 1.0 BPG on .490/.344/.720 shooting in 179 career contests (17.2 MPG) since making his debut in 2019. Nowell, who joined the team at the same time, has been a fixture on the wing, averaging 8.3 PPG in 122 career appearances (16.0 MPG), including 15.0 PPG through three games this season.

Reid and Nowell are both in the final season of four-year contracts they signed back in 2019. Because they’re on expiring deals, they’ll remain eligible to sign extensions all the way up until June 30, 2023, the day before they become unrestricted free agents.

Veteran extensions for players on minimum-salary contracts like Reid and Nowell can begin at 120% of this season’s estimated average salary. As we noted when the NBA set its salary cap for 2022/23, this season’s estimated average salary is $10,792,000, so 120% of that amount is $12,950,400. Therefore, a maximum four-year extension that includes 8% raises would be worth about $58MM.

It’s unlikely that either Reid or Nowell will get a four-year, $58MM offer from the Timberwolves, but it’s possible they’ll be able to reach a compromise somewhere below that maximum.

It sounds as if Reid is a more likely extension candidate than Nowell, who is expected to opt for unrestricted free agency next summer, sources tell Charania.

Lakers Notes: Westbrook, Possible Trade Partners, Shooting

Count Kevin O’Connor of The Ringer among the NBA analysts who believe the Lakers should be feeling some urgency to find a trade involving Russell Westbrook sooner rather than later. O’Connor opens his latest article by dubbing the former MVP a “washed-up bricklayer,” contending that the Lakers need to trade him immediately to have any chance of salvaging their season.

[RELATED: Woj: Don’t expect any Lakers trades before Thanksgiving]

While the much-discussed Pacers package of Myles Turner and Buddy Hield could certainly be one the Lakers revisit if and when they reengage in trade talks, O’Connor points to the Jazz a potential trade partner to watch.

League sources tell The Ringer that before Bojan Bogdanovic was traded to Detroit, the Lakers offered Westbrook, a future first-round pick, and second-rounders to Utah in exchange for Bogdanovic and others. O’Connor adds that sources expect the two teams to reopen their trade discussions at some point, since the Jazz still have veterans who could help the Lakers, such as Jordan Clarkson, Mike Conley, and/or Rudy Gay.

As O’Connor notes, the Hornets were viewed back in the spring as a possible trade partner for the Lakers and Westbrook, but that was when Charlotte was preparing to make a lucrative offer to Miles Bridges and was motivated to move off some multiyear salary. With Bridges’ NBA future up in the air due to domestic violence allegations, dumping long-term salary may no longer be a priority for the Hornets.

Here’s more on the Lakers and Westbrook:

  • The Lakers’ offense lost its rhythm late in Sunday’s loss to Portland when Westbrook checked back into the game, according to Eric Pincus of Bleacher Report and Jovan Buha of The Athletic, who both argue that the team needs to seriously consider taking the point guard out of its closing lineup going forward.
  • Westbrook was pulled for the final few possessions on Sunday, shortly after he took an ill-advised jumper early in the shot clock with the Lakers up by a point and just under 30 seconds left in the game. After the game, head coach Darvin Ham said he isn’t worried about how Westbrook will respond to being benched for the game’s final 12 seconds. “We don’t have time for feelings or people being in their feelings. Like, we’re trying to turn this thing around,” Ham said, per ESPN’s Dave McMenamin. “For one person to be in their feelings about when and where and how they should be in the game, I don’t have any time for that.”
  • Anthony Davis was “visibly frustrated” after Sunday’s loss, according to McMenamin. “There’s no way we’re supposed to lose this game,” Davis said. “That’s where my frustration comes from.”
  • The Lakers’ three-point shooting remained an issue on Sunday, as Broderick Turner of The Los Angeles Times writes in his takeaways from the game. The club’s 6-of-33 (18.2%) mark from beyond the arc on Sunday was its worst single-game rate yet. Through three games, the Lakers’ 21.2% three-point percentage is easily the worst in the NBA — Chicago is second-worst at 29.3%.

2022/23 NBA G League Draft Results

The NBA G League held its draft for the 2022/23 season on Saturday afternoon.

The 28 G League teams affiliated with NBA franchises participated in the event, as did – for the first time – the Mexico City Capitanes. The G League Ignite, which is made up of top prospects and veteran mentors, doesn’t take part in the draft.

[RELATED: NBA G League Announces Schedule, Format For 2022/23 Season]

The first player selected in today’s G League draft was 2020 second-round pick Sam Merrill, a swingman who was in camp with the Kings this fall but missed out on earning a regular season roster spot.

Merrill’s contract with Sacramento included a partial guarantee of $150K, making him ineligible to suit up for the Kings’ G League affiliate in Stockton this season. The Cleveland Charge, the Cavaliers‘ affiliate, snared him with the No. 1 overall pick.

The No. 2 pick was another player who was under contract with an NBA team up until last week. Joe Wieskamp was the odd man out in San Antonio, having been waived by the Spurs (despite having a guaranteed 2022/23 salary) to help the team get down to 15 players for the start of the season. The Wisconsin Herd, the Bucks‘ affiliate, grabbed him with the second overall selection today.

Among the other notable picks was No. 4 overall Jared Rhoden, who was selected by the Hawks‘ affiliate, the College Park Skyhawks. Atlanta claimed Rhoden off waivers near the end of the preseason in the hopes of securing his affiliate rights, but it appears he didn’t meet the criteria — the Skyhawks instead secured his G League rights in today’s draft.

The player with the most NBA experience selected in today’s draft was Norris Cole. The veteran guard, with 360 NBA regular season appearances under his belt, went 48th overall to the Grand Rapids Gold, the Nuggets‘ affiliate. Cole, who turned 34 this month, will be looking to take the same path Isaiah Thomas and Lance Stephenson did last season, making an NBA comeback after impressing in Grand Rapids.

Finally, it’s also worth noting that today’s No. 10 overall pick, Amauri Hardy, is the older brother of Mavericks rookie Jaden Hardy. Dallas’ affiliate, the Texas Legends, picked him.

Here are the full 2022/23 G League draft results:


Round One:

  1. Cleveland Charge (Cavaliers): Sam Merrill
  2. Wisconsin Herd (Bucks): Joe Wieskamp
  3. Greensboro Swarm (Hornets): Aaron Wheeler
  4. College Park Skyhawks (Hawks): Jared Rhoden
  5. Oklahoma City Blue (Thunder): Jericole Hellems
  6. Sioux Falls Skyforce (Heat): Kadeem Jack
  7. College Park Skyhawks (Hawks): Terrell Brown Jr.
  8. Oklahoma City Blue (Thunder): Michael Weathers
  9. Texas Legends (Mavericks): Taze Moore
  10. Texas Legends (Mavericks): Amauri Hardy
  11. Memphis Hustle (Grizzlies): Ty Gordon
  12. Iowa Wolves (Timberwolves): Mamoudou Diarra
  13. Fort Wayne Mad Ants (Pacers): Abu Kigab
  14. Ontario Clippers (Clippers): Warith Alatishe
  15. Westchester Knicks (Knicks): Mayan Kiir
  16. Capital City Go-Go (Wizards): Theo John
  17. South Bay Lakers (Lakers): Nate Roberts
  18. Memphis Hustle (Grizzlies): Keith Williams
  19. Long Island Nets (Nets): Taz Sherman
  20. Raptors 905 (Raptors): Devon Daniels
  21. Sioux Falls Skyforce (Heat): Jai Smith (Overtime Elite)
  22. College Park Skyhawks (Hawks): Adrian Delph
  23. Wisconsin Herd (Bucks): Tyrn Flowers
  24. Windy City Bulls (Bulls): Nick King
  25. Ontario Clippers (Clippers): David Collins
  26. Delaware Blue Coats (Sixers): Derek Culver
  27. Motor City Cruise (Pistons): Ryan Turell (Yeshiva — Division III)
  28. Motor City Cruise (Pistons): Tom Digbeu
  29. Maine Celtics (Celtics): Kendall Smith

Round Two:

  1. Cleveland Charge (Cavaliers): Rashad Vaughn
  2. Mexico City Capitanes (N/A): Jassel Perez (Dominican Republic)
  3. Greensboro Swarm (Hornets): Tyson Jolly
  4. Raptors 905 (Raptors): Hasahn French
  5. Greensboro Swarm (Hornets): No pick
  6. Sioux Falls Skyforce (Heat): Landon Kirkwood
  7. Austin Spurs (Spurs): Justin Kier
  8. Iowa Wolves (Timberwolves): No pick
  9. Santa Cruz Warriors (Warriors): Jayce Johnson
  10. Delaware Blue Coats (Sixers): No pick
  11. Cleveland Charge (Cavaliers): Remy Martin
  12. Oklahoma City Blue (Thunder): Noah Starkey (Southern Nazarene – Division II)
  13. Oklahoma City Blue (Thunder): Philip Flory
  14. Maine Celtics (Celtics): Zak Irvin
  15. Westchester Knicks (Knicks): Jahvon Blair
  16. Sioux Falls Skyforce (Heat): Brandon McCoy
  17. South Bay Lakers (Lakers): John Meeks
  18. Stockton Kings (Kings): Seth Allen
  19. Grand Rapids Gold (Nuggets): Norris Cole
  20. Memphis Hustle (Grizzlies): No pick
  21. Stockton Kings (Kings): Austin Trice
  22. College Park Skyhawks (Hawks): No pick
  23. Greensboro Swarm (Hornets): No pick
  24. Stockton Kings (Kings): Isaac Johnson
  25. Salt Lake City Stars (Jazz): Elijah Lufile
  26. Delaware Blue Coats (Sixers): No pick
  27. Rio Grande Valley Vipers (Rockets): Eron Gordon
  28. Santa Cruz Warriors (Warriors): Jack Nolan (Washington University in St. Louis – Division III)
  29. Salt Lake City Stars (Jazz): Armon Fletcher

Round Three:

  1. Cleveland Charge (Cavaliers): J.J. Moore
  2. College Park Skyhawks (Hawks): No pick
  3. Greensboro Swarm (Hornets): No pick
  4. Lakeland Magic (Magic): Jachai Taylor
  5. Lakeland Magic (Magic): No pick
  6. Birmingham Squadron (Pelicans): Trey McGowens
  7. Austin Spurs (Spurs): No pick
  8. Oklahoma City Blue (Thunder): Kevin Kangu
  9. Windy City Bulls (Bulls): Wayne Stewart Jr. (Texas A&M-Commerce – Division II)
  10. Fort Wayne Mad Ants (Pacers): No pick
  11. Maine Celtics (Celtics): No pick
  12. Cleveland Charge (Cavaliers): No pick
  13. Fort Wayne Mad Ants (Pacers): No pick
  14. Maine Celtics (Celtics): No pick
  15. Westchester Knicks (Knicks): Dazon Ingram
  16. Grand Rapids Gold (Nuggets): No pick
  17. Mexico City Capitanes (N/A): No pick
  18. Windy City Bulls (Bulls): No pick
  19. Long Island Nets (Nets): Alan Griffin
  20. Austin Spurs (Spurs): No pick
  21. Austin Spurs (Spurs): No pick
  22. College Park Skyhawks (Hawks): No pick
  23. Wisconsin Herd (Bucks): No pick
  24. Grand Rapids Gold (Nuggets): No pick
  25. Ontario Clippers (Clippers): No pick
  26. Delaware Blue Coats (Sixers): No pick
  27. Santa Cruz Warriors (Warriors): No pick
  28. Capital City Go-Go (Wizards): Nick Hornsby
  29. Raptors 905 (Raptors): No pick

Teams will fill out their rosters with affiliate players, returning-rights players, tryout players, and players who are assigned to the G League from the NBA roster (including those on two-way contracts).

G League training camps open on Monday, with this year’s NBAGL Showcase Cup tournament tipping off on November 4.

Blazers’ Olivier Sarr Out At Least Six Weeks

Trail Blazers big man Olivier Sarr had his Exhibit 10 contract converted into a two-way deal last Thursday, but it doesn’t look like he’ll see regular season action for the team anytime soon. According to the Blazers, Sarr has been diagnosed with a high-grade partial tear of the scapholunate ligament in his right wrist.

After originally being diagnosed with a right wrist sprain last week, Sarr underwent further testing to determine the full extent of the injury. The team announced today that he will be reevaluated in six weeks.

Sarr, 23, spent a portion of his rookie season in 2021/22 with the Thunder, signing a pair of 10-day contracts with Oklahoma City and then receiving a two-way deal. He averaged 7.0 PPG and 4.2 RPG in 22 NBA games (19.1 MPG), with a solid shooting line of .574/.448/.828.

Sarr joined the Trail Blazers on a non-guaranteed training camp deal this offseason and beat out several other camp invitees for one of the team’s two-way slots. Rookie big man John Butler Jr. holds Portland’s other two-way deal.

Given Sarr’s strong preseason, it seemed as if he might challenge Drew Eubanks for minutes as Jusuf Nurkic‘s primary backup at center, but Eubanks is now in position to occupy that role for the foreseeable future.

Dwayne Bacon Signs With Panathinaikos

Veteran free agent swingman Dwayne Bacon has signed with Panathinaikos, the Greek team announced today in a press release. Bacon received a two-year contract.

Bacon was in training camp with the Lakers this fall, but didn’t earn a spot on the team’s 15-man regular season roster and was waived about two weeks ago.

A 2017 second-round pick, Bacon has appeared in 207 regular season NBA games for Charlotte and Orlando since making his debut five years ago. In 2020/21, he averaged 10.9 PPG and 3.1 RPG in 72 games (50 starts) for the Magic.

However, Bacon didn’t play in the NBA last season after being waived by the Knicks in the fall. He signed with AS Monaco shortly after being cut by New York and competed in France’s top basketball league and the EuroLeague in 2021/22. He’ll be returning to the EuroLeague this year, in addition to playing in Greece’s top league.

2022/23 NBA Waiver Claims

Waiver claims are something of a rarity in the NBA. In order to claim a player off waivers, a team generally must be able to fit the player’s entire salary into cap room, a traded player exception, or a disabled player exception.

Given those limitations, the players most frequently claimed on waivers are those on minimum-salary deals, since any club is eligible to place a claim on those players using the minimum salary exception.

Even then though, there are some caveats — the minimum salary exception can only be used to sign players for up to two years, so the same rules apply to waiver claims. If a player signed a three-year, minimum salary contract, he can’t be claimed using the minimum salary exception, even if he’s in the final year of his deal.

Taking into account all the rules that reduce the odds of a waiver claim – not to mention the limited roster spots available for NBA teams – it makes sense that nearly all of the players who get released ultimately clear waivers. The 2021/22 league year featured a total of just six waiver claims, for instance.

Despite how infrequent they are, we still want to track all the waiver claims that take place during the 2022/23 league year, since you never know which claim may end up being crucial, such as the Pistons‘ July 2019 claim of Christian Wood. Last season, the Lakers‘ claim of Avery Bradley and the Rockets‘ claim of Garrison Mathews were the most noteworthy.

We’ll track this year’s waiver claims in the space below, updating the list throughout the season to include the latest moves. Here’s the list:


  • Spurs claim Isaiah Roby from Thunder (July 5) (story)
    • The victim of a roster crunch in Oklahoma City, Roby was waived by the Thunder before his salary for 2022/23 could become guaranteed. However, the under-the-cap Spurs didn’t mind locking in Roby’s minimum salary and taking a flier on the young forward, who made the team’s opening night roster.
  • Rockets claim Darius Days from Heat (October 11) (story)
    • Days was initially on a two-way contract with the Heat, who preferred to give that spot to Jamal Cain. But since the Heat still wanted Days to play for their G League affiliate, the Sioux Falls Skyforce, they converted the forward to an Exhibit 10 contract before waiving him. The Rockets didn’t let Days to get to Sioux Falls though — instead, they claimed him and converted him back to a two-way contract to open the season.
  • Heat claim D.J. Stewart Jr. from Mavericks (October 14) (story)
    • The Mavericks signed Stewart to an Exhibit 10 contract, but the Heat and their affiliate, the Skyforce, still held his G League rights. So when Dallas cut Stewart ahead of the regular season, Miami placed a claim on him to ensure that he would receive his $50K Exhibit 10 bonus if he reported back to Sioux Falls to start the season. The Heat waived him shortly thereafter.
  • Hawks claim Jared Rhoden from Trail Blazers (October 14) (story)
    • Like the Heat with Stewart, the Hawks claimed Rhoden for G League purposes. He had been on an Exhibit 10 contract with Portland, but the Trail Blazers are one of two NBA teams without a G League club of their own and had no plans to make him an affiliate player. Rhoden was waived by Atlanta shortly after being claimed, but the College Park Skyhawks – the team’s G League affiliate – selected him in the NBAGL draft.
  • Spurs claim Julian Champagnie from Sixers (February 16) (story)
    • After promoting Charles Bassey to their standard roster, the Spurs had an open two-way contract slot. Instead of bringing in a free agent, San Antonio filled that opening by placing a claim on former Sixers two-way player Champagnie, who had just been cut by Philadelphia to make room for Mac McClung.
  • Spurs claim Sandro Mamukelashvili from Bucks (March 3) (story)
    • The Spurs claimed Mamukelashvili, who had been on a two-way deal in Milwaukee, despite both of their two-way slots being full. By immediately converting Mamukelashvili to a standard, rest-of-season contract, San Antonio was able to claim him and move him to the 15-man roster, waiving Isaiah Roby to create room. If the Spurs had wanted to keep Mamukelashvili on his two-way deal or convert him to a contract that covered more than the rest of the season, they would have had to waive one of their two-way players to make the claim.

Thunder’s Jalen Williams Undergoes Surgery For Orbital Bone Fracture

Thunder rookie Jalen Williams has undergone surgery to address a right orbital bone fracture, the team announced today in a press release.

Williams sustained the injury in Oklahoma City’s season opener on Wednesday when he took an inadvertent elbow to the face from Timberwolves forward Jaden McDaniels.

According to the Thunder, Williams will be reevaluated in approximately seven-to-10 days, so he’ll miss at least the next few games on OKC’s schedule.

The 12th overall pick in this year’s draft, Williams had scored five points in six minutes in his NBA regular season debut on Wednesday before going down with the injury.

While Williams’ exact recovery timeline is unknown, the injury shouldn’t be a long-term concern in the same way that an issue related to an ankle or knee might be. However, I imagine he’ll probably have to temporarily don a mask to protect his face when he returns to action.

And-Ones: Breakout Candidates, Wembanyama, Thornwell

Michael Scotto of HoopsHype polled 20 NBA executives on their top three breakout candidates for the 2022/23 season and found that Sixers guard Tyrese Maxey was the most popular pick. While I’d argue that last season represented a breakout year for Maxey, some executives have far higher expectations for him going forward.

“Maxey’s going to be better than James Harden,” one general manager said to Scotto. “He just keeps getting better and better and will be a huge reason why they have success this season.”

Pacers guard Tyrese Haliburton, Timberwolves guard Anthony Edwards, Magic forward Franz Wagner, and Rockets guard Jalen Green were among the other popular breakout picks, based on the responses Scotto got from executives. Interestingly, Warriors big man James Wiseman and Pistons forward/center Marvin Bagley III were each picked as this year’s top breakout candidate by one GM.

Here are a few more odds and ends from around the basketball world:

  • In his latest look at the top prospects in the 2023 NBA draft class, David Aldridge of The Athletic passes along several entertaining quotes from NBA executives, including one Eastern Conference exec’s response to whether Scoot Henderson could surpass Victor Wembanyama as next year’s No. 1 pick: “Scoot’s good, but, no. Short of Wembanyama having murdered somebody, there’s just no way.”
  • Veteran guard Sindarius Thornwell has signed with Frutti Extra Bursasport, the Turkish team announced this week (via Twitter). Thornwell has appeared in 160 total NBA games and played for New Orleans and Atlanta in 2020/21, but wasn’t in the league last season.
  • Longtime NBA referee Tony Brown, who officiated over 1,100 games, including one in the 2020 NBA Finals, passed away on Thursday after a fight with pancreatic cancer, according to his family (story via ESPN.com).

Hawks’ Owner Ressler Talks Murray, Hunter, Expectations

After acquiring Dejounte Murray from San Antonio in a blockbuster trade that saw them give up three first-round picks (two unprotected) and a pick swap, the Hawks expect to be a playoff team and not just a play-in club in 2022/23, team owner Tony Ressler tells Jeff Schultz of The Athletic.

Ressler conducted separate one-on-one interviews with Schultz and Lauren Williams of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution to discuss the Murray trade, his expectations for the team, and a handful of other topics.

The Hawks’ owner stressed in both conversations that the team will have to wait to get to the 20- or 30-game mark to get a real sense of where it stands in the Eastern Conference, but Atlanta got off to a solid start on Wednesday with a 117-107 victory over Houston.

Here are a few of the more notable comments from Ressler’s two interviews, which overlap a little but are worth checking out in full:

On whether there was much internal debate over making the Murray trade:

“Yes, there was a lot of debate. Dejounte is a great player, and we gave up a lot to get him. There wasn’t debate about the quality of Dejounte and what he would bring to the Hawks. And now, our starting five, I think we have a good team. (Wednesday) was only one game, but it did say, ‘Hey, we have four guys who can give you 20 points any night.’ And if that’s an aberration, then we screwed up, but we don’t think it’s an aberration. We’re deeper and better than we were last year.”

On whether the Hawks felt like they were mortgaging their future and opening up a win-now window with the Murray deal:

“I try not to speak that way. That’s not good business talk. Good business talk is, ‘Is this a good trade for us now?’ Not, ‘We have to win now.’ As you point out, that’s a lot for any player, and it’s worthy of evaluation and discussion. After losing in the first round of the playoffs, we saw a lot of things we can do better, and we thought Dejounte would help us do many of those things. And we do still have some picks for the future, so we can still draft young players for the future. We’re not out of that part of the business.”

On why the Hawks felt comfortable signing De’Andre Hunter to a four-year extension worth at least $90MM:

“De’Andre has done everything well. He’s had some bad luck in his first three seasons, health-wise, whatnot, injury wise, but you know what, he’s a kid that can do everything. And he’s a great kid, he’s a great player, wants to get better. And for whatever it’s worth, we believe he’s getting better, continuing to get better and off a pretty high bar. So that’s a kid that you’re thrilled to have here. I actually think he complements the rest of our guys beautifully.”

On the desire to bring an NBA championship to Atlanta:

“Franchises that have won a championship or multiple championships I have grown to respect even more. This is my eighth season, and we still haven’t won a championship. I’m proud of the direction we’re moving in. But to be a great, top-tier NBA franchise, you must win a championship. Some people in our franchise are, ‘We won one in St. Louis.’ I don’t count that. I wasn’t there. I wasn’t born. I don’t give a f–k. Our job is to win a championship or multiple championships, and we’re not there, yet.”