Utah Jazz Rumors

Jazz Sign Jack Cooley

August 19 at 6:24pm CDT By Cray Allred

The Jazz have signed Jack Cooley, according to a team release. While terms of the deal weren’t announced, Jody Genessy of Deseret News reports that Cooley is a camp addition, adding that it’s very likely the deal is non-guaranteed (on Twitter).

The Jazz only have 12 players on guaranteed contracts for the 2014/15 season, so Cooley will have a better shot than many at this time of year of making an NBA team. Last year, Cooley chose to play in Turkey rather than accept one of several camp invitations. Cooley reportedly had mini-camp workouts with the Spurs, Nets, Cavaliers, and Jazz this summer.

The 6’9″ power forward went undrafted following his senior year at Notre Dame in 2013, but immediately performed well in summer league action. During his time overseas, the big man averaged 12.6 points and 6.9 rebounds in 22.9 minutes per game.

Jarnell Stokes Signs With Grizzlies

August 18 at 6:27pm CDT By Eddie Scarito

6:27pm: Stokes can become a restricted free agent at the end of the deal, reports Tillery in a separate article, since the third year of the deal is a team option.

5:49pm: Jarnell Stokes has signed his rookie contract with the Grizzlies, reports Ronald Tillery of The Commercial Appeal (Twitter links). The team has confirmed the deal via a press release. The agreement is for three years, and approximately $2.5MM, notes Tillery. Stokes had reportedly been waiting to finalize his contract to give Memphis more flexibility in pursing free agents this summer.

The 6’9″ power forward was selected by the Jazz with the No. 35 pick in this year’s NBA Draft, then was traded to the Grizzlies for a 2016 second-rounder that same night. Stokes was seen as a possible late first round selection leading up to the draft, and the Grizzlies may have gotten a steal by picking him up for a future second round pick. The 2016 pick that Memphis is sending to Utah is the more favorable of the second-round picks that the Raptors and Celtics sent to the Grizzlies in previous trades.

Stokes averaged 15.1 points and 10.6 rebounds per game for the Volunteers this past season. His career numbers were 13.0 PPG, 9.6 RPG, and 1.1 BPG. His career slash line was .530/.000/.628. Stokes had talked with Zach Links of Hoops Rumors for our Prospect Profile Series prior to the draft about his career goals and skills.

Murphy, Bost To Join Jazz For Training Camp

August 15 at 3:42pm CDT By Zach Links

FRIDAY, 3:42pm: The Jazz officially announced the signing of Bost, tweets Aaron Falk of The Salt Lake Tribune.

THURSDAY, 1:04pm: Kevin Murphy and Dee Bost will join the Jazz for training camp, according to Gino Pilato of D-League Digest (on Twitter). Both players spent last season with the Idaho Stampede of the D-League.

Bost, 25 in October, signed a non-guaranteed deal with the Blazers last fall before being waived in October.  The guard went undrafted out of Mississippi State in 2012 and spent the following season overseas with Budućnost Podgorica in Montenegro, averaging 8.3 PPG, 1.8 APG, and 1.3 turnovers in 21.5 minutes per contest.  In 50 games for Idaho last season, Bost averaged 15.2 PPG and 6.1 RPG in 40.5 minutes per night.

Murphy auditioned for the 76ers in March in hopes of securing a 10-day deal and also worked out for the Nets earlier this offseason.

And-Ones: D-League, Garcia, Love, Bost

August 15 at 2:22pm CDT By Zach Links

Sources tell Gino Pilato of D-League Digest (on Twitter) that the 2014/15 D-League season is likely to start a week earlier than last season, which could provide roster opportunities for teams.   Also, with the new schedule, the regular season is set to wrap on April 4th (link).  More from around the Association..

  • Despite some speculation to the contrary, agent Aaron Goodwin says that client Francisco Garcia has not agreed to re-sign with the Rockets, tweets Chris Haynes of CSNNW.com.  Late last month it was reported that there is mutual interest between the two sides, however.
  • With Kevin Love likely heading from the Wolves the Cavs in a little over a week, Michael Rand of the Star Tribune looked at five things he’ll miss about Kevin Love and five things he won’t miss.  Rand will miss Love’s willingness to take big shots and his beautiful outlet passes, but he won’t miss the All-Star’s inability to elevate the team around him and his lack of interior defense.
  • Sources tell Jody Genessy of the Deseret News (on Twitter) that Dee Bost‘s deal with the Jazz is guaranteed for $65K.  In total, it’s a three-year deal worth $2.35MM, tweets Eric Pincus of Basketball Insiders.  He’ll attend Jazz camp but will likely play in the D-League for the Idaho Stampede.  In 50 games for Idaho last season, Bost averaged 15.2 PPG and 6.1 RPG in 40.5 minutes per night.

And-Ones: Morris, D-League, Kings

August 13 at 10:31pm CDT By Cray Allred

The NBA released its schedule for 2014/15, and it’ll feature an All-Star break that will extend longer than a week. Every team will get at least eight days off, as first reported by Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports (Twitter link). That will mean a few more sets of back-to-back games throughout the season, but it’ll be interesting to see the effect on the pre-deadline trade market, since the All-Star break usually falls about a week before the trade deadline. More idle time and a lower risk of injuries that could scuttle a trade might lead to more activity. While we digest the schedule and all of its ramifications, here’s the latest from around the league:

  • Darius Morris rejected an offer that would have given him a net $450K from a Serbian team, tweets David Pick of Eurobasket.com, who speculates that NBA interest was behind Morris’ decision.
  • There is no timetable on a decision to install a new D-League president, the league office tells Gino Pilato of DLeagueDigest.com.
  • Pilato has heard of some candidates for the job, however, naming Tommy Smith, Shawn Smith, Chris Alpert, and Jerry Murphy, all of whom currently work for the D-League
  • The Jazz announced (via Twitter) that Dean Cooper, whom the Rockets let go from their assistant coaching staff after this past season, has been named head coach of Utah’s D-League affiliate.
  • Demolition has begun for the Kings new arena, reports Dale Kasler of The Sacramento Bee. The project is moving forward with the expectation that some remaining legal challenges to the arena’s construction will fail.

Chuck Myron contributed to this post.

Toure’ Murry Close To Deal With Jazz

August 13 at 5:30pm CDT By Eddie Scarito

WEDNESDAY, 5:30pm: The Jazz are finalizing the deal with Murry, writes Stein, who adds that the Lakers were also interested in the guard’s services.

5:53pm: Murry’s agent, Bernie Lee, said the report of a pending deal with the Jazz is “news to him,” notes Jody Genessy of the Deseret News (Twitter link).

TUESDAY, 5:31pm: Toure’ Murry is close to signing a two-year, $2MM deal with the Utah Jazz, reports Marc Stein of ESPN.com (Twitter link). Murry had also been pursued by the Heat, and his former team, the Knicks, notes Stein. Murry will be able to provide depth at both guard positions for the Jazz, and will compete for playing time off the bench.

Utah will most likely begin the season with Trey Burke as the starting point guard, and Alec Burks at the two guard position. No. 5 overall pick, Dante Exum, will begin his career at shooting guard, but the franchise hopes he can develop his ball-handling and decision-making skills enough to eventually shift over to the point.

Last year, his first season in the league, Murry appeared in 51 games for the Knicks, and averaged 2.7 PPG, 0.9 RPG, and 1.0 APG, while logging 7.3 minutes a night. His slash line was .434/.417/.590.

Trade Retrospective: Deron Williams To Nets

August 9 at 12:18pm CDT By Eddie Scarito

The soon-to-be blockbuster trade that will send Kevin Love to the Cavaliers for Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett, and a future first-rounder, is just awaiting the 30-day moratorium from the date that Wiggins signed his contract to pass before the trade can become official. While the Timberwolves have no choice but to trade their star player, lest they risk losing him in free agency for nothing after the season, there is always a danger in dealing away a player of Love’s talent.

I’ve begun looking back at past trades involving big name superstars being dealt, and the results of these deals for all parties involved. Previously I had examined the four-team trade which sent Dwight Howard to the Lakers, and the outcomes for all the teams involved turned out to be less than stellar.

The next trade that I’ll be looking back at is the February 2011 deal that sent Deron Williams from the Jazz to the Nets. Let’s first recap the pieces that changed hands:

  1. The Nets received Williams.
  2. The Jazz received Derrick Favors; Devin Harris; a 2011 first-round pick (used to select Enes Kanter); a 2013 first-round pick (which was later traded along with Utah’s No. 14 overall pick for the rights to Trey Burke); and $3MM.

Note: The Nets also traded forward Troy Murphy and a 2012 second-round pick to the Warriors for center Dan Gadzuric and forward Brandan Wright the same day. This deal was announced at the same time, but wasn’t part of the Jazz-Nets transaction.

This deal came together after Williams had expressed his displeasure with playing in Utah, and his season-long friction with then coach Jerry Sloan, which had a direct influence on Sloan resigning from his long-time position with the team. The Nets made this deal after being unsuccessful in their numerous attempts to land Carmelo Anthony from the Nuggets, who forced his way into being traded to the Knicks instead.

From the Nets’ perspective, it would be safe to say that this trade hasn’t quite worked out for the franchise as planned. Williams has been hobbled by injuries for much of his time in New Jersey/Brooklyn, and his production hasn’t quite been worth the assets surrendered, nor the subsequent 5-year, $98MM extension he signed with the team in July of 2012.

Let’s look at Williams’ numbers since joining the Nets:

  1. In 2011/12, Williams averaged 21.0 PPG, 3.3 RPG, and 8.7 APG. He appeared in 55 games that year, and his slash line was .407/.336/.843.
  2. In 2012/13, he appeared in 78 games, averaging 18.9 PPG, 3.0 RPG, and 7.7 APG. His slash line was .440/.378/.859.
  3. In 2013/14, Williams played in 64 contests, putting up 14.3 PPG, 2.6 RPG, and 6.1 APG. His shooting numbers were .450/.366/.801.

His numbers the first two seasons were very respectable, but arguably not in line with the level of his contract, nor the perception of him being a franchise player. Injuries have had much to do with this, and he underwent surgery this May on both of his ankles. Both the Nets and Williams hope this will alleviate the pain he was forced to play through, and perhaps help him regain some of the explosiveness that he has lost since his days in Utah. Williams still has three years and $63.1MM remaining on his contract, so Brooklyn certainly hopes it helps.

From Utah’s perspective, the trade looks better every time Williams hobbles up and down the court, and I’m sure they’re happy not having to pay max-level money for his decline years. But the deal hasn’t helped them advance in the standings. Since dealing Williams, the Jazz have gone 104-126, and have made it to the postseason just once, and were ousted in the first round by the Spurs that year. During the same time period, Brooklyn sits at an even 115-115, with two playoff appearances.

As for the players they received in return, the results have been mixed. Both Favors and Kanter have improved with each season, and have the potential to anchor a productive frontcourt for years to come. But neither player has performed at an All-Star level. Let’s look at their numbers since arriving in Utah.

Favors:

  1. During the 2011/12 season, Favors averaged 8.8 PPG, 6.5 RPG, and 1.0 BPG. His slash line was .499/.000/.649.
  2. In 2012/13 he averaged 9.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, and 1.7 BPG, while shooting .482/.000/.688.
  3. Last season, Favors put up 13.3 PPG, 8.7 RPG, and 1.5 BPG. His slash line was .522/.000/.669.

Kanter:

  1. Back in 2011/12, as a rookie he put up 4.6 PPG, 4.2 RPG, and 0.3 BPG. His slash line was .496/.000/.667.
  2. During the 2012/13 campaign, Kanter provided 7.2 PPG, 4.3 RPG, and 0.5 BPG. His shooting numbers were .544/1.000/.795.
  3. Last year’s numbers were 12.3 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 0.5 BPG. Kanter’s slash line was .491/.000/.730.

Harris played one full season in Utah, and averaged 11.3 PPG, 1.8 RPG, and 5.0 APG. He was then traded during the offseason to the Hawks for forward Marvin Williams. Williams was a productive rotation piece for the Jazz, averaging 7.2 PPG and 3.6 RPG during the 2012/13 season, and 9.1 PPG and 5.1 RPG last year. Williams signed a two-year, $14MM deal with the Hornets this offseason.

The last piece of the deal for the Jazz was the 2013 first-rounder they received, which ended up being the No. 21 overall pick. Utah packaged that selection along with their own first-rounder (No. 14) in a draft night trade with the Timberwolves. The Jazz received the rights to point guard Trey Burke, whom Minnesota had taken 9th overall.

The Wolves used those selections to take Shabazz Muhammad (No. 14) and Gorgui Dieng (No. 21). Nether of those players have set the league on fire, but Dieng has showed flashes of potential and could become a productive rotation player in Minnesota. Muhammad has been a bust thus far, displaying maturity issues, and his offensive game hasn’t developed as hoped.

Burke has easily been the most productive player involved in that deal. In his rookie season, he averaged 12.8 PPG, 3.0 RPG, and 5.7 APG. His slash line was .380/.330/.903. Burke’s shooting was abysmal, but he displayed some improvement towards the end of the season. He also brings a number of intangibles to the table, which can’t be discounted. He is a high-character player, who outperforms his athletic ability.

His role as a starter could be in jeopardy though, seeing as the Jazz picked Dante Exum with the 5th overall selection in this year’s draft. Exum will likely begin his career as a shooting guard, pairing with Burke in the backcourt, but Exum views himself as a point guard, and if he develops quickly, could push Burke into a role off the bench.

As with the Howard trade, this is another example of neither franchise “winning” the deal. If Williams had remained healthy, and put up similar numbers to his days in Utah, then the Nets would have come out on top. A star player in the NBA is worth far more than a number of good rotation pieces.

But in light of Williams’ injury issues, and him being unlikely to regain his past explosiveness at the age of 30, coupled with his enormous contract and resulting cap hit, Utah did reasonably well here. Kanter and Favors could anchor a solid, if unspectacular frontcourt for the next few seasons, and if Burke can improve his outside shooting and keep Exum at shooting guard, then this trade will look much better from the Jazz’s perspective.

That’s a lot of ifs, and it only serves to illustrate the risks involved when franchises deal away their star players. Like the Jazz had with Williams, Minnesota has very little choice but to deal away Love, lest they risk getting nothing to show for their troubles. But while they might acquire some pieces that can help, even acquiring a player of Wiggins’ potential doesn’t mean they’ll be selling playoff tickets any time soon.

Knicks Still Considering Pablo Prigioni Trade

August 6 at 5:46pm CDT By Cray Allred

The Knicks are still considering trading Pablo Prigioni, tweets Marc Stein of ESPN.com. Frank Isola of the New York Daily News initially tweeted that New York was still open to trading Prigioni while the Knicks trade with the Kings was still unfolding earlier today. In a separate tweet, Stein adds that those trade discussions at one point included the option of sending Prigioni, along with Travis Outlaw and a draft pick, to the Jazz as a facilitating third team.

New York’s remaining willingness to part with Prigioni contradicts an earlier report from Stein that said the Knicks were fond of the point guard, and only considered trading him as an incentive for another team to take on Wayne Ellington‘s contract. Ellington has already been shipped off, so perhaps New York’s fondness of Prigioni is measured.

Prigioni has played two seasons in New York, coming to the NBA for the 2012/13 season after a successful career in Europe. The 37-year-old was a reliable backup last year, but his skills maybe viewed as expendable by Knicks president Phil Jackson, who’s helping new coach Derek Fisher install the triangle offense. The Knicks acquired point guards Jose Calderon and Shane Larkin from the Mavs the day before the draft, and Iman Shumpert is a combo guard who remains on the roster despite trade speculation dating back to last season.

Trade Retrospective: Dwight Howard To Lakers

August 5 at 9:17pm CDT By Eddie Scarito

It’s an enormous gamble for franchises to trade away their superstars because there’s almost no way to get back equal value in return. Teams usually have to settle for quantity over quality, and have to bank on the returns panning out down the line, or being able to in turn, flip the acquired assets for another team’s star player in another deal. It’s a gamble either way you look at it, and might help in explaining the turnover rate of NBA GM’s.

The current Kevin Love situation playing out in Minnesota is a great example of this. Team president and coach Flip Saunders is still trying to decide whether or not to pull the trigger on the deal, and if he does, which package provides the best return? There’s no way to get equal value for a player of Love’s caliber, at least not for the coming season. If Saunders lands the right package it will benefit the Timberwolves more in the seasons to come, rather than during the 2014/15 campaign. This is true even if they do in fact land Andrew Wiggins, as most of the current rumors suggest.

Minnesota’s quandary made me want to take a look back at some other blockbuster trades where superstars changed hands, and to examine how the trades worked out for both sides. Since we’re discussing a big man, I decided to begin this series with a look back at the August 2012 deal that sent Dwight Howard from the Magic to the Lakers.

First let’s recap the trade, and all the assets and teams involved:

  1. The Lakers received Dwight Howard, Chris Duhon, and Earl Clark from the Magic.
  2. The Nuggets received Andre Iguodala from the Sixers.
  3. The Sixers received Andrew Bynum from the Lakers, and Jason Richardson from the Magic.
  4. The Magic received Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, a 2014 first rounder from Denver via the Knicks (traded to Sixers for the rights to Elfrid Payton) and a 2013 second-round pick (Romero Osby) from the Nuggets; Maurice Harkless and Nikola Vucevic from the Sixers; Josh McRoberts, Christian Eyenga, a top-five protected first rounder in 2017, and a conditional second-rounder in 2015 from the Lakers (protected for picks 31-40).

Looking back at the trade from the Lakers’ perspective, it’s not as bad a deal as one would have thought, considering Howard ended up being a one-year rental. During Howard’s lone season in Los Angeles, he averaged 17.1 PPG, 12.4 RPG, and 2.4 BPG in 76 appearances. His time was most notable for his displeasure with then coach Mike D’Antoni‘s offensive system, and the perception that Howard wasn’t satisfied with being the second biggest star on the team after Kobe Bryant.

Los Angeles went 45-37 in Howard’s only season, earning the seventh seed in the playoffs, where they were swept in the first round by the Spurs. Howard then left the Lakers to sign a four-year, $87.59MM contract with the Rockets.

In retrospect, the Lakers didn’t surrender all that much for their one season of Howard. At the time giving up Andrew Bynum, who was coming off of a season where he averaged 18.7 PPG, 11.8 RPG, and 1.9 BPG, seemed like a gamble, considering re-signing Howard wasn’t guaranteed, but Bynum ended up missing the entire 2012/13 season, and he’s only appeared in a total of 26 games since then.

Josh McRoberts has turned out to be a valuable bench contributor, but he’s not a player who would have significantly changed the fortunes of the purple-and-gold. McRoberts was subsequently traded by Orlando to the Hornets for Hakim Warrick midway through the 2012/13 season, and most recently signed a four-year, $22.65MM deal with the Heat.

The biggest loss from the trade could turn out to be the 2017 first-rounder that went to Orlando. It’s top-five protected, which gives Los Angeles some margin for error. But unless the Lakers make a splash in free agency the next two summers, the loss of the pick will cost them a much needed cog in the rebuilding process, and will negatively impact the franchise. I would say that setback wouldn’t be worth the single season of Howard they received. The record the Lakers have compiled since the trade is 72-92, hardly the result they intended when making the deal.

The Nuggets received a big boost from Iguodala in his one season with the team. He averaged 13.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, and 5.4 APG while appearing in 80 contests. Denver went 57-25 that year, securing the third seed in the playoffs, before getting ousted by the Warriors in the first round.

Iguodala then left the Nuggets in a sign-and-trade deal with the Warriors that netted them Randy Foye. The Nuggets also swapped 2018 second-rounders with Golden State as part of that trade.

Foye had a decent season last year, averaging 13.2 PPG, 2.9 RPG, and 3.5 APG in Denver. He actually outperformed Iguodala’s totals in Golden State, thanks to Iguodala being slowed by injuries for much of the year. Still, in the long term, Iguodala is a much more valuable player, especially on the defensive end.

From Denver’s perspective this trade wasn’t a great success. The one season of Iguodala cost them two excellent years from Afflalo, who averaged 16.5 PPG, 3.7 RPG, and 3.2 APG in 2012/13, and 18.2 PPG, 3.6 RPG, and 3.4 APG during the 2013/14 season, numbers that surpassed anything that Iguodala has provided in Denver or Golden State. Afflalo was re-acquired by Denver this summer in a trade with Orlando which sent Evan Fournier and the No. 56 pick (Devyn Marble) to the Magic. Since the 2012 trade, the Nuggets record is 93-71.

From the Sixers’ perspective, this trade wasn’t a great deal–unless you are on board with their perceived tanking, and the assets they are gathering as a result. The acquisition of Bynum, which at the time was looked at as a win, turned out to be a disaster. Iguodala was a team leader, extremely popular in Philadelphia, and arguably the team’s best player at the time. Bynum had injury and motivation issues, and he ended up being far more trouble than he was worth during his brief stay in Philadelphia.

The loss of Harkless and Vucevic also doesn’t help the trade look any better from Philadelphia’s perspective. Harkless hasn’t set the league on fire, but he averaged 8.2 PPG and 4.4 RPG during the 2012/13 campaign, and 7.4 PPG and 3.3 RPG in 2013/14. He’s still only 21 years old and could develop into a valuable rotation piece down the line.

Vucevic, still only 23 years old, has turned out to be a very productive big man for Orlando. He put up 13.1 PPG and 11.9 RPG in 2012/13, and then 14.2 PPG and 11.0 RPG last season, far better numbers than anything from either Bynum or Richardson, who averaged 10.5 PPG and 3.8 RPG during his one healthy season in Philly.

The Sixers have gone 53-111 since the trade, a ghastly mark that stands in stark contrast to what they were envisioning when making the deal. They couldn’t have anticipated the injuries to Bynum, but that’s the risk a franchise takes with any transaction.

Finally, we come to the Magic. They were in a similar position to the one that Minnesota now finds itself in. They had a disgruntled superstar who wanted out, and they didn’t want to risk losing Howard for nothing if he left as a free agent. So, they made the difficult decision to deal away their franchise player.

After running through what the other teams received, and the minimal returns those assets provided, this might be one of the rare cases where the team trading away the best player actually came out on top.

As I’ve previously mentioned, Afflalo gave them two solid seasons, and Orlando probably should have retained him for another year, considering his talent level and affordable contract. Harkless has given Orlando decent production, and he hasn’t reached his full potential yet.

But the big prize was Vucevic. Productive big men are at a premium in the league, and he is still improving as a player. The problem will come after this season. Vucevic is eligible to sign an extension this summer, or he’ll become a restricted free agent in 2015. He won’t come cheap, and the Magic will have to decide if he’s worth the $10-15MM per season he will most likely seek in his new contract.

The final piece to this trade is Payton. If he can develop into a reliable starter, this trade will look better from Orlando’s perspective. Payton’s presence will allow Victor Oladipo to return to his natural position at shooting guard and reduce his ball-handling duties. The knock on Payton is his lack of a reliable jump shot, and with his questionable mechanics, it might not be a part of his game that will ever stand out. But if he can improve his defense, stay away from turnovers, and facilitate the offense effectively, he’ll be a valuable piece of the puzzle going forward.

Despite “winning” this trade, it hasn’t been reflected in the standings. Orlando has gone 43-121 since dealing away Howard. So, despite acquiring some intriguing building blocks, it also proves that one star player is far more valuable than a roster of good ones. Minnesota, take heed. You might have no choice but to trade Love, but no matter the return, your ranking in the Western Conference most likely won’t improve over the next few seasons.

And-Ones: Wiggins, Cavs, Murry, George

August 3 at 10:44pm CDT By Zach Links

The No. 1 overall pick in June’s draft is in a weird spot, writes Tim Bontemps of the New York Post.  Andrew Wiggins has been heavily connected to a possible Kevin Love deal between the Wolves and Cavs and on top of that, it turns out that he hasn’t even chatted with LeBron James since the game’s top player announced in Sports Illustrated that he was going back to Cleveland.  “No. I’m sure he’s busy,” Wiggins said. “I feel like I’m busy, so I am sure he’s busy.”   More from around the NBA..

  • Toure’ Murry still has interest from the Heat, Jazz, and Clippers and a return to the Knicks remains a possibility, writes Ian Begley of ESPNNewYork.com.
  • Paul George‘s injury isn’t just a loss for the Pacers, it’s a loss for all of basketball, writes Candace Buckner of the Indy Star. It has been noted that in 1985, when quarterback Joe Theismann suffered a similar horrific fracture, the injury forced him into retirement at age 36. However, Buckner notes that George has the advancements of modern medicine on his side as well as his youth.
  • Italian team Ferentino is eyeing former D-League guard Chris Roberts, sources tell Paolo DePersis of Sportando.  The swingman spent last season in Serie A with Caserta averaging 11.6 PPG and 3.1 RPG.