Jazz, Celtics Discuss Hayward Sign-And-Trade

JULY 7, 8:29am: As of Thursday night, sign-and-trade talks between the Celtics and Jazz had been “dormant” for most of the day, per Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN (Twitter link). Boston continues to explore other trade options involving Crowder, Smart, and/or Bradley.

JULY 6, 3:28pm: The Celtics and Jazz appear to be getting closer to a sign-and-trade agreement that would involve Crowder, says Mark Murphy of The Boston Herald. According to Murphy, any deal is expected to be more than just Hayward for Crowder, since the Celtics would want something else in return, but details on assets aren’t currently known.

JULY 5, 11:14pm: Hayward and his agent, Mark Bartelstein, will help facilitate a sign-and-trade, according to Jones. When asked about the possibility of making the swap, GM Dennis Lindsey said that the team “would never comment on any trade speculation.”

8:31pm: The Celtics and Jazz have engaged in discussions on a trade that involves sending Hayward to Boston via sign-and-trade in exchange for Crowder, Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.com tweets.

7:39pm: The Jazz are open to working out a sign-and-trade agreement with the Celtics which would send Gordon Hayward to Boston, according to Tony Jones of the Salt Lake Tribune. Jones adds that Utah is only willing to accept a deal as long as Hayward signs off on it.

The small forward agreed to a max deal with the Celtics on Tuesday, though the team currently does not have the cap space to make that lucrative of an offer. Boston is looking to deal either Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart or Avery Bradley in order to make room for Hayward.

The Celtics most likely could garner significant value in a trade for any of the aforementioned players. While it’s possible that the team sends one of the three to Utah in a sign-and-trade for Hayward, such a move would be peculiar since it could likely fetch more in a trade with another club. Jones adds via Twitter that Boston may agree to such a move if Hayward told them it was a condition for him to sign with the club.

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118 thoughts on “Jazz, Celtics Discuss Hayward Sign-And-Trade

  1. Dretorade

    crowder or Bradley to Utah would definitely help lessen the blow of losing Hayward

      • John Barney

        You’d be getting a really decent player. in Crowder, and Bradley especially. Would hate to lose either one of those guys.

        • liamsfg

          Yeah both are good. I was expecting boston to trade smart over the other two but i guess not.

  2. gmflores27

    This is like losing your girlfriend and having your mom offer to take you out for ice cream to make it feel better

    • They need to clear some additional cap to sign Hayward to the proposed contract. Trading one of those three is the easiest way. It would also clear the logjam on the wing as one of Bradley or Smart are likely to walk at the end of the year and clear up some minutes for Brown/Tatum.

      • Connorsoxfan

        Yeah but any playoff team with 7 million in cap space should be offering their lottery protected first rounder in like 2 or 3 years right now. It’s a better deal.

    • hiflew

      Not really. They could sign him for an additional year through a sign and trade if I am not mistaken. So in effect it would be Crowder for an additional year of Hayward.

      • Connorsoxfan

        I think you are mistaken. Also Hayward only wants 3 years because then he’s eligible for the 10 year vet max which is 35% of the cap instead of 30.

  3. Bransonreynolds

    The celtics should trade one of them for a draft pick. They’re running low….for an NFL team

  4. GMB 883

    Why would the Celtics do that when they already have Hayward and can get good value for Crowder, Smart or Bradley. They want Bigs to rebound and block shots and I think that’s the focus.

    • Md2t23

      I said this on the story of looking to deal one, some, or all of these three…

      Crowder returns to Dallas with Smart for Dwight Powell. Young athletic big capped by Noel, for Crowder (capped by GH) and smart (blocked by IT and AB) plus clearing up about 3-4 mil in cap space which is all Celts need.

  5. dust44

    Crowder to the Jazz… only makes sense. Crowder is the odd man out. Even tho he would b a very good small ball 4. But smart gets after it on D at the guard spot and Bradley stretches the floor and is clutch. I think it only makes sense

    • Md2t23

      Cause it doesn’t help the Celts to deal to the jazz. They can get the 4/5 in trade they are wanting for just one or two of these three.

      • Md2t23

        They already have Hayward. Only way this happens is if GH said the S&T is how he wants to go to help Jazz (which usually only happens if going for a fifth year type deal.

        • hiflew

          They don’t have Hayward until they get enough cap space for him. They HAVE to move someone. Other teams know this and are not going offer a great deal because the Celtics have ZERO leverage. Their best bet is to sign and trade Crowder for Hayward. At least they can get Hayward signed for an extra year that way.

          • Boston2AZ

            Hayward has an opt-out after 3 years. Why would he want to add another year when he can hit FA again when he’s 30 on the deal he agreed to?

            • hiflew

              I didn’t say it made sense for Hayward, I said it would make sense for Boston.

  6. BStevens

    Do you think the celtics are just gonna swap crowder for nothing? So they’ll do the sign and trade? You’re delusional. You could get a pick of any kind from a number of teams and hane the cap space you need.

    • jbone23

      I agree, I would offer Crowder/Smart and a late 1st round pick for Drummond or Orlando big, Vucevic.

      • Connorsoxfan

        Can’t that adds salary and they need to cut salary to fit in Hayward

  7. BStevens

    True.. as soon as they resolve the Hayward situation they would be able to make trades though. Matching salaries of course

    • Connorsoxfan

      Right but the thing is they don’t have much non essential salary on the roster right now. Basically have to use the room exception well, bargain hunt for 1-2 minimum guys, and hope Zizic doesn’t suck.

      • BStevens

        Zizic looks awful. Have you watched either summer league game? and that’s against guys in the rookie league. Smh

  8. the dude

    They might be doing the sign and trade to lock down Hayward longer or maybe just as a good show of faith. Clears the numbers up and they can still get a cheap rebounder with one of the exceptions and I’m pretty sure it creates a trade exception too or whatever it is.

  9. GMB 883

    If the Celtics agree to a S&T with the Jazz and Crowder goes to Utah then the Celtics would get another asset back which is probably a draft pick (maybe second round) or a back up Big. Don’t see them doing this for nothing. A lot of teams like Crowder. Celtics will probably work to clear up a lot more space if they really want to put a deal together for Marc Gasol.

    • UTEP Two Step

      The Marc Gasol report was ridiculous. He’s 32 and Memphis would want the world for him. So no on the age and no on the price tag. Why does the media feel like Boston needs to win the 2018 Eastern Conference when they could be in position to contend every year for 10 years if they manage this correctly. Build methodically, dominate for years.

  10. mchaney317

    The people who are saying that the Celtics have no reason to do this don’t understand. They need to clear cap space, so one of Crowder/Smart/Bradley is gone no matter what. Sending one of them to the Jazz would be intended as a sign of goodwill, especially since the return for any of them probably wouldn’t be great anyway given Boston’s lack of leverage (and Danny Ainge would probably draft and stash someone with a pick he’d acquire for one of them anyway). Besides, swapping any one of these guys for Hayward is a net gain anyway. This would be a win-win for both teams, at least in the sense that it’s the best outcome for the Jazz at this point since they’re losing Hayward.

    • James203

      Yes I agree, a sign of goowdill, though not just to the Jazz, but Hayward as well. He becomes less the villain for leaving Utah and settles more quickly in Boston. The last line of the story also touches upon this – it may not have been a condition of Hayward signing, but the Celtics may have stated they would be receptive to a sign and trade to facilitate a smooth transition from the Jazz. It’s only 48 hours since they were trying to convince him to sign, and they may have dangled this out there to alleviate the guilt.

  11. steve

    The C’s have to dump salary, and teams in general don’t get good value for dumping salary, let alone when you’ve got an in word agreement to sign a guy but no cap space to do it. That being said, I think if they willing to send Crowder to Utah for nothing, the deal would have been done already. They likely get, as another fellow pointed out, a pick of some nature or a bottom end rotation player or two. They could of got more if they moved Crowder before getting the agreement from Hayward, but thats the gamble you take (although I think they still should have moved him sooner given the drafting of Tatum and already having Brown on the roster).

  12. GMB 883

    It’s not like Ainge has his feet to the fire to clear space. He can do that just by renouncing players. They key is teams don’t know who is offering what and it’s not like the Celtics need to move all 3 players mentioned. Translation he won’t give Crowder away for nothing in return. Let’s see how this goes. I doubt the S&T comes together with Utah. He knows from previous discussions what the market is for all of these players. Ainge gives nothing away and usually wins most trades.

  13. crazysull

    Boston-Memphis-Utah trade

    Boston gets: Hayward, Gasol
    Memphis gets: Smart or Rozier and a future(2020 or later or a heavily protected) 1st from Boston
    Utah gets: Crowder

    Not sure if this would work but it has been rumored that the Celtics asked about Gasol and this trade allows them to have a lineup of IT Bradley Hayward Horford Gasol. That is a pretty good lineup and having Brown Taytum Zizic Smart/Rozier come off the bench along with others is a pretty dangerous team

    • bosox90

      The whole point of this conversation is that the Celtics need to shed some money in order to be able to fit in Hayward’s contract under the salary cap. Adding Gasol while only giving up Crowder and Smart/Rozier is going to put them in a worse position financially. Plus, Memphis’ asking price would be much, much higher than a future first rounder and a back-up PG.

    • Connorsoxfan

      It doesn’t work logically. It doesn’t work money wise. This is why people hate Celtics fans.

    • SuperSinker

      Lol Memphis gives up Gasol and gets Rozier and a 1st round pick five years down the road?

    • shawnybig

      Celts get Hayward and Gasol
      Utah Gets Crowder and a second pick and Demetrius Jackson
      Memphis gets Smart or Bradley and J Mickey 1st round picks from Clippers and Memphis own pick . Maybe Nader D league MVP or Yasubele also in package

  14. formerlyz

    I don’t know how they wouldn’t be trying to move Marcus Smart, of the 3. And losing Crowder for nothing can’t happen. That would be a really odd move by them

  15. BStevens

    Memphis is not giving Boston gasol for a protected 1st rd pick and smart

    • shawnybig

      Clips and Memphis first round picks plus Marcus smart and either Nader The D league MVP or yasubele first round pick a last year With potential. If memphis get the own pick back and trade gasol that adds a lot of value to the pick

  16. GMB 883

    Are you kidding me? The Celtics would make that trade in a nano second. Marc Gasol averaged 19.5 last year and he rebounds well. Memphis loses in that deal big time but he is 32. Needs to be another 1round pick such as the LA pick and another good player or a 3rd first round pick.

  17. gmflores27

    Gordon Hayward will never be forgiven, he is a liar and was never a good teammate. The Jazz will get crowder out of this and be better without him

      • JamesW26

        I’m not saying Boston fans are any better, because I’ve found them to be an insufferable lot more often than not as well, and I’ve never been to Philly or New York or the other stereotypically tough places to visit for away teams, but when I was 8, I went to the Salt Lake summer league dressed in Nuggets gear, and I had multiple grown men and women screaming at me and telling me that I was going to hell for being a Nuggets fan. In the grand scheme of bad fans, that’s pretty close to the worst thing I can imagine a city doing to a kid who just wants to watch some basketball. A lot of players say that Utah is one of the most difficult places to play, and it’s not because of the altitude.

        • gmflores27

          Well I’ve had people in Boston call me numerous racial slurs for going to Red Sox games as an LA Angels fan so I know what it’s like

    • gmflores27

      He lied about making his decision this week but everyone knew it was going to happen a long time ago let’s not bs here. He basically said he would stay if Lindsey would resign Ingles and trade for Rubio. He’s a loner in the clubhouse who whines constantly

  18. GMB 883

    BStevens when you said settle down to me I was not referring to your post Lol – I was referring to the trade crazysull suggested.

    As for gmflores27 – Wow you sound like a scorned lover of Gordon Hayward. I bet you were one of the people who burned his jersey. No one said he is LaBron James or Russell Westbrook but he is definitely a top 20 to 25 player who has improved his scoring every year for 7 straight years. Watch how many points he scores this year playing next to Isiah. My guess is he goes from 21.9 to 25. Why would he not want to play for the Coach who believed in him more than he believed in himself. I love Jae Crowder but he is not in the same conversation as GH. I think he was very close to staying in Utah based on the 7 years of relationships he build. As for Danny Ainge his record as a GM speaks for itself. Not many better if at all in the league. Example: remember he still has 5 first round draft picks and If your watching the Summer league, Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum might be better than GH in 2 or 3 years. Maybe better than Paul George. Watch what Jaylen Brown does with the Celtics this year. He is a stud why just needs time. You sound like a guy who wants to dig a hole and jump in it. Pretty sad. Celtics lot out on a lot of FA’s (see KD last year) but they don’t cry. They work to get better and move on to other ways of improving their team (ie; DA).

    • gmflores27

      GMs Better than Ainge are Buford, Myers, Presti, Ujiri, Olshey, Morey, Nelson, Riley, Lindsey, Marks, Hammond, and many more. If it weren’t for one trade with the King of GMs (Billy King) then he wouldn’t be in Boston anymore

      • Flubby

        And the Isaiah trade for a pick, and the crowder trade that got rondo out of town.. he has a pretty successful track record my man

  19. Chad Watkins

    Celtics must hate jimmy butler. At one point rumors were they didn’t want to give up crowder in a bulls-celts deal. Now they’ll do it to cut salary? I agree with most, even though this seems likely, I don’t get it. Crazy as it sounds selling high on Thomas for a haul could be fun. They are building to try and be good for the next 6 -10 years.

    • bosox90

      Possibly, but IT was a huge reason GH came to Boston.

      To gmflores/other DA haters: In today’s NBA it is NOT easy to set a team up for current and future success the way Danny Ainge has, especially with no access to a top-five superstar. They have an extremely well-balanced roster with plenty of scoring and defense (albeit a bit weak on the boards) in an increasingly weak Eastern Conference. They also have an infusion of young talent that will continue to bolster this roster from years to come. It is possible that while being a playoff team, and now a legit contender in the EC, they will have four top-five picks in three years. That is some absolutely insane maneuvering by Danny Ainge, and if you can’t grant him that then it’s hard to take your opinion seriously.

      • Chad Watkins

        I hope you’re not talking about my opinion…… my last sentence basically praised Ainge for doing just that. All I was saying was that it would’ve sucked to have to give up crowder for basically nothing. Glad they figured out how to get a return for Bradley. I’m a Bulls fan so I know too-notch GMing when I see it (because GarPax are light years from what Ainge is capable of)

  20. Connorsoxfan

    Woj said that the Celtics making all their cap clearing moves would leave them 300k short of a max deal for Hayward while retaining Smart, Crowder, and Bradley. Would Utah be open to Crowder and Smart for Favors and a lottery protected first? Crowder makes like 7 and Smart makes 5 I think and Favors makes 11. They shed just enough and manage to add a quality player who fills a need. Then it wouldn’t technically be a sign and trade because they’d have the space open but they could probably make it that way if they wanted to.

  21. GMB 883

    What you are saying makes sense but can the Celtics afford to give up that great defense from Crowder, Smart or Bradley? Smart and Bradley should be 1st team all defensive players and if you give up too much defense you better make up for it on the offensive end. If it were me I would trade Crowder and try to get another 1st round pick with a contract coming back that I can renounce right away. Plus whatever else can be done to create cap space to finalize the Hayward contract. Then I would consider putting a great package together of picks and a couple players for either Marc Gasol or Demarcus Cousins. The Pelicans can’t really win with that team and unless they are willing to trade Anthony Davis (maybe) then in Brad Stevens offense, Gasol or Cousins fit very well. If they have a center like that so Horford can play the 4 with Hayward at the 3, Bradley at the 2 and then Isiah they would have a very realistic chance to beat Cleveland and compete against GS. Especially if Brown and Tatum become what they appear to be capable of. We are talking about a lot of 3pt shooters with good rebounding and good defense led by a talented Coach who the players respect. Could me interesting. They would be over the cap after next year but like Cleveland and GS I don’t think they would care.

    • Connorsoxfan

      Yeah they can afford to give up 2 of them. Favors plays good defense too and Brown is good there as well. Hayward is decent defensively, Bradley is the one I would keep, and they should basically have enough defense and a great offense.

    • Well if Gasol, Cousins, or Davis is a target for the Celtics, they’re going to have to give up Brown and Tatum (could probably get away with giving up only one in a Gasol deal). A package headlined by Smart isn’t as attractive as it could be as he’s due a big raise at the end of the year. So unless the Celtics plan on giving up the Nets pick AND the LAL/SAC pick, they’d have to gut their rotation to add one of those three. And thats besides the cap issues that arise. If the Celtics have to move one of Smart/Bradley/Crowder for Hayward, they’d have to move the other two to clear enough salary.

  22. crazysull

    Can’t the Celtics just ask one of their players who is making a lot of money like Horford to take a little pay cut to make room? Or is that not a thing in the NBA?

    • Luke Adams

      Not a thing. If a contract is being renegotiated, it can only be upwards.

    • Connorsoxfan

      You can’t do that in the NBA. Or any sport but the NFL really. A-Rod tried to in MLB during the almost trade to Boston but the players union wouldn’t allow it bc it set bad precedent and most other sports are the same. NFL is the one exception because they locked out the players and got everything they wanted.

    • Connorsoxfan

      No because they can trade Crowder to any other team in the league and give the Jazz nothing for Hayward. Any number of teams should be willing to trade a future first or a young rotation guy for him. So yes. Boston is asking for more.

    • Connorsoxfan

      Boston wants more because they can just deal Crowder elsewhere and get something for him. They aren’t required to give the Jazz anything for Hayward, so they’ll trade him to the Jazz if they can get something of value from them alongside Hayward.

  23. crazysull

    Celtics Get: Hayward(S&T) Bender
    Suns Get: Crowder future 1st from Boston
    Jazz Get: 2018 second round picks from the Celtics.

    I am looking at this trade like the one involving Gallo, where the Nuggets his former team only got a 2nd round pick in return so that is my thinking.

    The Celtics have a need for a big man who can rebound and Bender can do that as well as stretch the floor. This would also allow Horford to move back to the PF and have Bender start at center. Plus he is only 19 or 20 years old. With the addition of Hayward Crowder becomes a bit more expendable and given the fact that they need to clear space he is the one who unfortunately is the likeliest to go. The Suns get Crowder who can mentor Jackson who is a defensive specialists just like Crowder but Crowder can also shoot so Jackson can learn from him plus the Suns can use all the help they can get and Bender wasn’t even playing that much. The Jazz will only recoup a 2nd round pick like I said before, this is because the Celtics can just sign him from the Jazz and not need to give them anything in return so why give them something valuable.

    This is probably not going to happen but it was an idea that just popped into my head and I thought that it might just work.

    • Connorsoxfan

      In that case they wouldn’t give the Jazz anything. They would just trade Crowder and the pick for Bender. At that point they would have the necessary cap room and it would defeat the point. Also, no way Phoenix trades Bender just for that. If it was the Lakers Sacramento pick then yeah, but he’s not as valuable as Crowder and the Nets pick, but just a random future first from the clips or Memphis or us won’t cut it. Also Bender is definitely not ready to start.

  24. Better players than assets, and certainly not great rebuilding assets. The Celtics need to move one of them to open up 2.5 mm of cap space to sign Hayward. How does that translate into the Suns giving up a 19 year old potential star big to the Celtics. If the Celtics get a lottery protected 1st round pick for any of these guys, they should be estatic.

  25. beantownmassacre

    This sign and trade is now dead since the Celtics just traded Bradley

  26. Reflect

    So if the sign and trade can’t be done is Heyward still gonna sign with Boston? Or did he not want to sign straight up?

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