Andrew Wiggins

Pacific Notes: Warriors Rumors, Lakers, Clippers

The Warriors aren’t interested in trading Draymond Green or Klay Thompson ahead of the February 8 deadline, according to ESPN’s Brian Windhorst, but they might consider moving Chris Paul or Andrew Wiggins.

Former No. 1 overall pick Wiggins is having a disappointing year, but he’s played much better recently, while Paul, who is currently injured after undergoing hand surgery, is 38 years old and on a pseudo-expiring contract. Speaking to reporters on Thursday, head coach Steve Kerr said he was aware of Wiggins being mentioned in trade rumors, but he hopes he’s still on the roster late next week.

I’m very hopeful and I expect him to be here when the trade deadline passes,” Kerr said, per ESPN.

As for Green and Thompson, Windhorst’s report isn’t surprising. While Shams Charania of The Athletic has said Stephen Curry will be the only Warrior off the table in trade talks, he also downplayed the possibility of a trade involving Green or Thompson, two longtime veterans who helped Golden State win four championships — and make six Finals appearances — from 2015-22. Other reporting indicated Curry would have to sign off on such a deal, which was always considered unlikely.

Here’s more from the Pacific:

  • Appearing on 95.7 The Game’s Willard and Dibs show on Wednesday (Twitter link), Kerr said the Warriors might be better served by waiting for injured players to return rather than making trades. We’re not going to find better players than (Chris Paul and Gary Payton II) in a trade,” Kerr said. “It’s exceedingly rare to make a deal where you can upgrade your talent to that level.” Payton has been out since January 2 with a grade 2 left hamstring strain. Kerr also mentioned Moses Moody as another injured contributor. As Anthony Slater of The Athletic tweets, Moody will miss this weekend’s back-to-back, but he has a chance to return on Monday after being out since January 10 due to a left calf strain. Dario Saric is also out for at least Friday, as he’s away from the team with an illness.
  • After a major upset victory over the Celtics in Boston on Thursday without stars LeBron James and Anthony Davis, Lakers guard Austin Reaves said the team responded well to James’ frustrated comments about “doing their jobs,” which occurred after Tuesday’s lopsided loss to Atlanta (YouTube link). Reaves scored a season-high 32 points (on 10-of-18 shooting, including 7-of-10 from deep) in Thursday’s win.
  • The Clippers had more total victories in December and January than any team in the NBA. Should they even make a trade? Law Murray of The Athletic explores that topic, writing that P.J. Tucker, Bones Hyland and Brandon Boston look to be the three most likely trade candidates, but L.A. may just stand pat.
  • Tucker expressed frustration with his role — or lack thereof — in December, and nothing has changed since. However, he’s 39, doesn’t contribute much on offense, and holds a $11.54MM player option for 2024/25, which all hurt his trade value. According to Murray, the veteran forward has been a positive locker room presence, particularly for Russell Westbrook and James Harden, but the Clippers forward admits he’s trying to balance being a professional “while trying to get in a better situation for me, personally,” he told The Athletic. “It kind of is what it is at this point.” Tucker expressed skepticism about the possibility of turning down his player option, making him an unlikely buyout candidate. “That all depends on the situation, timing, where,” Tucker said. “It’s a lot of things that plays into that. I worked hard to be able to get myself in that position. The contract I got, the timing I got it, and all that … it means a lot and something I don’t take for granted. It’s definitely going to take a lot of thought and it’s going to take a real, real opportunity for me to have to go against that.”

Western Trade Rumors: Wolves, Kings, Mavs, Vincent, Suns, Tillman

The Timberwolves are exploring the point guard market and considering making a trade for a player who could back up Mike Conley, reports Jake Fischer of Yahoo Sports.

While Fischer suggests that a reunion with Tyus Jones may be an option for Minnesota, he hears from league sources that the team is also eyeing a pair of guards who have connections to president of basketball operations Tim Connelly: Monte Morris of the Pistons and Bones Hyland of the Clippers.

Both Morris and Hyland played for Connelly’s teams in Denver before he left for the Wolves, and both players are considered potential trade candidates. Morris is on an expiring contract on a lottery-bound team, while Hyland has fallen out of the regular rotation in Los Angeles.

Here are a few more Western Conference rumors from Fischer:

  • Fischer, like Marc Stein, hears that the Kings have interest in Kyle Kuzma. However, outside of the Wizards forward, Sacramento hasn’t really been actively pursuing other targets that would require the team to part with Harrison Barnes, so Barnes could remain with the Kings through the trade deadline, Fischer says. Conversely, the Mavericks – who have also been connected to Kuzma – are known to have interest in several other forwards, including Dorian Finney-Smith and Andrew Wiggins.
  • Although D’Angelo Russell has been cited more frequently as a trade candidate, the Lakers are also including Gabe Vincent in various trade talks, sources tell Fischer. Vincent hasn’t been healthy this season and is under contract for one more year than Russell is, so his value will be limited, but his lower cap hit ($10.5MM) may make him a better fit in certain scenarios than D-Lo ($17.3MM).
  • The Suns continue to be the team linked most frequently by league personnel to Hornets forward Miles Bridges, Fischer writes, noting that both Bridges and Suns owner Mat Ishbia are former Michigan State Spartans.
  • Grizzlies big man Xavier Tillman has generated “a wealth of interest” from playoff contenders, according to Fischer. Tillman will reach unrestricted free agency this summer if he doesn’t sign an extension before then.

Western Notes: Kuminga, Lakers, Wolves, Watson

At 20-24, the No. 12 seed in the West, the Warriors certainly aren’t where they hoped to be in the standings at this point in the 2023/24 season. However, one bright spot of late has been the play of third-year forward Jonathan Kuminga, says Anthony Slater of The Athletic.

As Slater writes, Kuminga has been highly efficient attacking the paint over the past seven games, scoring 20-plus each game in averaging 25.1 points, 6.7 rebounds and 1.3 steals while shooting 61.9% from the field (32.0 minutes). Star guard Stephen Curry thinks Kuminga is turning a corner in his development.

(He has) clarity on how he can impact the game,” Curry said. “Defensive intensity, pressure, taking what the defense gives him on the offensive end. Whether it’s attacking driving lanes, finishing at the rim, getting transition buckets for us, and knocking down open shots. There’s just an element of aggressiveness. You don’t want him out there second-guessing anything.”

Playing Kuminga more and letting him learn from mistakes shows the team finally realized it needed to shake things up, especially on offense, according to Tim Kawakami of The Athletic, who notes that Andrew Wiggins has played well lately too with Draymond Green starting at center.

Kuminga’s prominent role is in stark contrast to the uneven minutes he received earlier this season, with a report just a few weeks ago suggesting the 21-year-old was losing faith in head coach Steve Kerr. However, Slater recently said Kuminga has felt better about his situation since he met with Kerr in the wake of that report.

Here’s more from the Western Conference:

  • Christian Wood sent out a tweet saying “lol” shortly before the Lakers announced their starting lineup on Tuesday featured Jaxson Hayes starting at center with Anthony Davis sidelined, but he said after the game it wasn’t related to basketball, writes Jovan Buha of The Athletic. “I meant to quote (tweet) something,” Wood said. “I thought I did and I just pressed send, and I couldn’t check my phone before because we have to go out (to the court), but it was an accident. … I looked at it just now. … It came off a certain type of way. I didn’t mean it that way.” After the loss to Atlanta, LeBron James also sent out a cryptic hourglass emoji, Buha adds. The trade deadline is next Thursday, and the Lakers are currently 24-25.
  • The Timberwolves have only advanced past the first round of the playoffs once in franchise history. How will they handle the pressure of being considered a title contender? ESPN’s Brian Windhorst explores that topic, writing that Karl-Anthony Towns‘ willingness to adjust his game has paid dividends thus far in 2023/24. “The winning helps. It’s good when you’re able to sacrifice to see the result you wanted and share the success,” Towns said. “We’re all making this happen. This is not just a singular effort. This is a team coming together and saying ‘We really want to do something special.’
  • Already an impressive defender in year two, Nuggets forward Peyton Watson says he’s looking to expand his game on the other end of the court, according to Harrison Wind of DNVR Sports. Watson has been taking far more mid-range shots lately, an area he’s comfortable in. “Coming in as a young player and trying to make a name for yourself and get a spot in the rotation, you’re not just coming in shooting of the dribble jumpers,” Watson told DNVR. “That’s not analytically the best shot, especially if you’re someone just coming in and trying to create his role. Now that I’ve created my role and people know what I’m going to do on the defensive end, it’s just been more about me expanding my game offensively, seeing what works, trial and error, and getting ready for when it counts in the playoffs.”

Pacific Notes: Wiggins, Siakam, Green, Clippers, Durant

The Warriors have fielded player-for-player offers for forward Andrew Wiggins, sources told Anthony Slater of The Athletic.

Though Wiggins is the Warriors player most likely to be moved before next month’s trade deadline, there hasn’t been an offer that has enticed them enough to make a deal. It’s key to note that they wouldn’t necessarily need to attach a draft pick to shed his contract, according to Slater. Wiggins is in the first season of a four-year, $109MM extension.

Golden State could go through the deadline without making a significant deal, despite its disappointing record. The internal expectations of making that kind of move have steadily decreased over the last month, Slater hears.

The Warriors remain in the buyers column, but they are reluctant to part with valuable pieces and don’t own their first-rounder this year. They are seeking a strong second option to pair with Stephen Curry but probably lack the assets to get that type of player.

They had exploratory conversations with the Raptors regarding Pascal Siakam before he was traded to Indiana. However, the Warriors’ most valued trade chip — Jonathan Kuminga — wouldn’t have been an ideal fit next to Raptors franchise player Scottie Barnes since their skill sets overlap.

We have more from the Pacific Division:

  • Warriors forward Draymond Green said he harbors no resentment for being left off Team USA’s pool of players under consideration for this year’s Olympics, according to Michael Wagaman of NBC Sports Bay Area. “I would like to believe that there’s some guys in that pool that I’m just not as good as,” Green said. “Didn’t quite think it would be so many great players in the pool because it just hasn’t been [that way] over the last couple of Olympic cycles. Then you look up and all of a sudden the ‘who’s who’ is there. I’m no idiot. You go with the who’s who and you figure it out.” Green was part of the 2016 and 2021 Olympic gold medal teams.
  • On that same topic, the Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard, Paul George and James Harden are on Team USA’s 41-player list and are legitimate candidates to make the 12-man Olympic roster, says Joe Vardon of The Athletic. Coach Tyronn Lue is an assistant on the USA coaching staff and he’d like to see at least one of them wind up on the 12-man roster. “Hopefully, it works out,” Lue said.
  • Suns star Kevin Durant says he’s looking forward to returning to Brooklyn for the first time since last season’s trade. Phoenix visits the Nets on Wedneday. “I’m excited,” Durant said. “It’s always fun playing in Brooklyn, it’s always fun playing in New York. Can’t wait to see some of the people that I worked with that I got to know over the last four years. New York City has become my favorite city in the world just from me living there for four years. I miss it a lot. I built a lot of bonds and relationships with the people that actually worked in the organization.”

Trade Rumors: Warriors, D. Murray, Hayward, Lowry, Knicks

No one will be entirely off the table for the Warriors at the trade deadline except for Stephen Curry, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic, who said on FanDuel’s Run it Back show (Twitter video link) that Andrew Wiggins, Chris Paul, and maybe even Klay Thompson are among the players who figure to come up in discussions in the next 10 days.

However, the Warriors are high on youngsters like Jonathan Kuminga and Brandin Podziemski, notes Charania, so those players are very unlikely trade candidates.

Additionally, ESPN’s Ramona Shelburne said on Monday (Twitter video link) that she doesn’t expect the Warriors to make any trades affecting their core unless Curry is “on board with that idea.” Thompson and Draymond Green are certainly part of that core, and it seems reasonable to assume Wiggins is in that group as well, given that he’s under contract for three more years and played a key role in Golden State’s 2022 championship.

Here are a few more trade-related notes and rumors from around the NBA:

  • Hawks guard Dejounte Murray is considered a strong candidate to be moved at next Thursday’s trade deadline, but at least one notable member of the organization doesn’t want to see him go anywhere. Sources tell Marc Stein (Substack link) that head coach Quin Snyder has lobbied the Hawks to hang onto Murray, who is under contract for four seasons beyond this one.
  • While the Hornets will certainly explore trading Gordon Hayward and Kyle Lowry, two veterans on pricey expiring contracts, both players are considered potential buyout candidates if Charlotte can’t find a deadline deal it likes. However, according to Stein, Hayward is “far less likely” than Lowry to seek a buyout if they’re still in Charlotte after February 8. If the Hornets were to retain Hayward through the end of the season, he would retain his full Bird rights and they’d have the option of re-signing him or signing-and-trading him in the summer. Stein also confirms that the Sixers would have interest in Lowry if he’s bought out, as previously reported.
  • While the initial reports on Julius Randle‘s shoulder injury are relatively positive, ESPN’s Brian Windhorst notes that shoulder issues can bother players for “months” and have a tendency to reoccur. As Adam Zagoria of NJ.com relays, Windhorst argued during a TV segment that the Knicks should consider making a move on the trade market to help offset the loss of Randle.
  • Bobby Marks of ESPN (Twitter link) passes along an interesting stat about movable first-round draft picks, noting that just 11 teams control 75% of the first-rounders that can be traded.

Pacific Notes: Warriors’ Lineup, Kerr, Bridges, Barnes

The Warriors dropped a little further in the Western Conference playoff race on Saturday, but coach Steve Kerr might have a lineup that’s capable of saving the season, writes Anthony Slater of The Athletic. Slater notes that Draymond Green has been outstanding since returning from his suspension and is no longer on a minutes restriction. He logged 46 minutes in last night’s double-overtime game, and the team was plus-31 when he was on the court and minus-32 without him.

Green has taken over as the starting center, with Jonathan Kuminga and Andrew Wiggins as the forwards. The Kuminga-Wiggins tandem was terrible earlier in the season, but Green’s defensive presence and ball-handling skills are making the combination work. Slater notes that the three of them are plus-41 in their minutes together since Green’s return.

“We’re trying to maximize the number of possessions that those guys play together,” Kerr said. “We’re in a position now with Wiggs playing at a high level and JK having come around, Klay (Thompson), (Stephen Curry), Draymond back after the suspension. We’re in a position where we can put those guys together and it’s probably our best five.”

Their success together likely minimizes any chance that Wiggins or Kuminga will be traded before the February 8 deadline.

There’s more from the Pacific Division:

  • Kerr found a quasi-diplomatic way to express his displeasure with the officiating after the Warriors fell to the Lakers Saturday night, Slater adds. “My Mom is here and I want to be on my best behavior,” Kerr said. “So I’m not going to comment on the 43 free throws to our 16. I’m not going to comment on Steph shooting three free throws in 43 minutes.” Raptors head coach Darko Rajakovic was fined $25K for complaining about the free-throw discrepancy in a loss to L.A. earlier this month.
  • Amid rumors that the Suns are confident about their chances of acquiring Miles Bridges from the Hornets, Gerald Bourguet of PHNX Sports argues against the move, saying the organization shouldn’t be considering someone with Bridges’ history of domestic violence. Bourguet also speculates that Phoenix hasn’t moved on Bridges already because it fears a backlash from fans.
  • With Kings forward Harrison Barnes frequently mentioned in trade speculation, James Ham of Kings Beat (subscription required) looks at how Barnes’ recent scoring outbursts might affect his future with the team.

Warriors Rumors: Kuminga, Wiggins, Defense, Draymond

The Warriors are happy with Jonathan Kuminga‘s development this season and aren’t inclined to trade him at the February 8 deadline, Michael Scotto of HoopsHype said in a conversation with The Athletic’s Anthony Slater on the HoopsHype podcast. It would likely require an “overpay” of draft picks or a deal that returns an All-Star caliber player to get Golden State to consider moving Kuminga, according to Scotto.

Slater essentially agrees with that assessment, noting that one reason the Warriors would be hesitant to move the former lottery pick is that they value him more than the rest of the NBA does. However, as Slater notes, the league-wide perception of Kuminga is likely rising based on how he’s performed lately.

As Slater wrote at The Athletic, in the Warriors’ emotional first game back on Wednesday following the death of assistant coach Dejan Milojevic, Kuminga had a perfect night, scoring 25 points on 11-of-11 shooting to help lead Golden State to a 22-point win. On Thursday vs. Sacramento, Kuminga racked up a season-high 31 points in 30 minutes and was a +16 in a game the team lost by one point.

The Warriors’ investment in Kuminga is paying dividends, according to Marcus Thompson II of The Athletic, who hears from his own sources that the team doesn’t plan to trade the third-year forward and never did.

While Kuminga’s standing in Golden State looked shaky just a few weeks ago when Slater and Shams Charania reported that he had lost faith in head coach Steve Kerr, the 21-year-old has felt better about his situation since meeting with Kerr in the wake of that report, per Slater. Now he’s playing some of the best basketball of his career and cementing his place in the Warriors’ future.

Here’s more out of Golden State:

  • Scotto and Slater discussed several more Warriors-related topics and rumors in the HoopsHype podcast, including Andrew Wiggins‘ trade market, why Golden State values Chris Paul as more than just an expiring contract, Steve Kerr‘s desire to continue coaching the Warriors beyond this season, and Slater’s belief that Klay Thompson will re-sign with the team in the summer. Regarding Wiggins, both Scotto and Slater have heard whispers about the Mavericks potentially having interest in the former No. 1 overall pick.
  • Warriors general manager Mike Dunleavy Jr. said during an NBC Sports Bay Area appearance on Thursday that he continues to evaluate the roster and to consider possible trade opportunities. Dunleavy admitted that the defense has “struggled” and is an area the team wants to “shore up,” but said that won’t necessarily happen on the trade market. “A lot of times, it’s hard at the trade deadline to bring in a player or players that are just going to dramatically improve your defense,” Dunleavy said, per Monte Poole of NBC Sports Bay Area. “Look, if that player is available, we’ll look to pursue it. … (But) I think it’s got to come from within. And that comes from everybody. That’s coaches, that’s players, that’s the whole deal of we’ve got to tighten this thing up and find a way to be better defensively because, frankly, offensively, we’ve been great.” Two of the Warriors’ top defenders, Draymond Green and Gary Payton II, have missed significant time this season.
  • Green has come off the bench in all three games since returning from his suspension, but Slater notes (via Twitter) that Kerr quickly subbed in the former Defensive Player of the Year just three minutes into the second half on Thursday. That might have been Green’s last half out of the starting five, Slater adds.

Pistons Notes: Muscala, Thompson, Ivey, Cap Room

The Pistons got a strong performance from their new-look bench in Saturday’s loss to Milwaukee, writes Omari Sankofa II of The Detroit Free Press. Alec Burks scored 33 points and teamed with newly acquired Mike Muscala to hit 11-of-18 shots from beyond the arc as Detroit’s reserves put up 85 points, the most of any team this season. Muscala has noticed a commitment to effort from his new teammates since being acquired in a trade last week.

“Guys play really hard here, and it’s an honor to be a part of that,” he said. “It was a good game today, we just couldn’t get it done, especially on defense. We get a chance to play them again on Monday, and obviously they’re a great team. They have a lot of weapons on offense, but I thought we battled hard today.”

Rookie forward Ausar Thompson, who started for much of the first half of the season, has also become an important part of the bench unit, and Sankofa notes that his rebounding and ability to attack the basket make him an effective complement to Muscala. Coach Monty Williams seems confident in his current bench group.

“Ausar coming off the bench and knocking down shots was huge for his confidence and huge for the development of our young group,” Williams said. “Having (Danilo) Gallinari and Mike out there, they’re seamlessly fitting in and figuring out how we play. Burks has been phenomenal. His ability to score the ball, his ability to communicate and help the young guys on the floor have helped us a ton. You don’t typically get that kind of bench production, but with the vets we have coming off the bench, it certainly helps us.”

There’s more from Detroit:

  • Jaden Ivey has excelled over the past two weeks with Cade Cunningham sidelined by a left knee strain, and he’ll continue to have a role in running the offense once Cunningham returns, Sankofa adds. “It’s good to see him not just score the ball. Like I said he’s defending, attacking the basket, knocking down open shots,” Williams said. “I think it’s going to be a good complement with those two playing together within the system.”
  • The Pistons could have $60MM in cap room this summer, and James L. Edwards III and John Hollinger of The Athletic look at how they might spend it, agreeing that it’s likely to be more useful in trading for big salaries rather than signing free agents. Hollinger speculates that the Pistons might have interest in Andrew Wiggins if the Warriors can’t move him before the trade deadline, although he’s a gamble with three years and $85MM left on his contract. Hollinger mentions a few other potential targets with long-term deals, including the NuggetsZeke Nnaji, the SunsNassir Little and the KingsDavion Mitchell.
  • The NBA has moved the starting time of the Pistons’ January 28 contest against the Thunder so it doesn’t conflict with the Detroit Lions’ playoff game on that Sunday, tweets Tim Reynolds of The Associated Press.

Fischer’s Latest: Tucker, Suns, Warriors, Mavs, Blazers, Graham

After being traded from Philadelphia to the Clippers earlier this season, veteran forward P.J. Tucker is a “strong” candidate to be moved again ahead of the February 8 deadline, says Jake Fischer of Yahoo Sports.

According to Fischer, Washington is viewed as a potential trade destination for Tucker, who would likely be bought out if he’s sent to the Wizards. In that scenario, the Suns and Bucks would be among the teams expected to pursue the 38-year-old on the buyout market, Fischer adds.

Tucker is earning $11MM this season, with an $11.5MM player option for 2024/25, so unless he gives up a significant portion of his remaining money in a buyout agreement, he’d still have a real impact on his team’s salary cap for next season. With that in mind, the Wizards (or another trade partner) would presumably want a solid asset or two as a sweetener to take on his contract, especially if they’re also giving up a rotation-caliber player in the process.

Here’s more from Fischer:

  • The Suns are one of the more active teams on the trade market and have explored what a package that includes Grayson Allen and Nassir Little could bring back, Fischer reports. Those efforts are complicated by the fact that Phoenix’s draft assets consist of just four second-round picks, according to Fischer, who points out too that Allen has been arguably the team’s most important players outside of its three stars.
  • Although the Warriors and Mavericks have displayed interest in Raptors forward Pascal Siakam, Golden State has shown little desire to part with either Jonathan Kuminga or Moses Moody, Fischer writes. As for the Mavs, they’ve been linked to many forwards, per Fischer, including Andrew Wiggins, P.J. Washington of the Hornets, and former Mav Dorian Finney-Smith, now a member of the Nets.
  • Jerami Grant is the sort of player who would appeal to teams like the Mavericks and Kings, but the Trail Blazers aren’t expected to seriously consider offers for the veteran forward, according to Fischer. Portland guard Malcolm Brogdon, on the other hand, is viewed as a more viable trade candidate.
  • In addition to veterans like Doug McDermott and Cedi Osman, who were previously identified as trade candidates, guard Devonte’ Graham is another Spurs player who is available via trade, sources tell Fischer. Graham has been out of San Antonio’s rotation all season and has a $12.1MM cap hit for this season, with a $2.85MM partial guarantee for 2024/25, so he presumably won’t have positive value.

Stein’s Latest: Hield, Wiggins, Finney-Smith, O’Neale, Fultz, McDermott, Osman

The Pistons and Wizards pulled off a trade involving four players and two draft picks on Sunday. Expect a lot more activity in the coming weeks, according to Marc Stein in his latest Substack post.

Stein offers a number of interesting tidbits from around the league:

  • Buddy Hield‘s name was prominently mentioned around the trade market after the veteran guard and the Pacers failed to reach an extension agreement during training camp. Sources tell Stein that Indiana continues to look for ways to move Hield. The Pacers are trying to package his expiring $18.6MM contract and a future first-rounder to get an impact player. Raptors forward Pascal Siakam continues to be talked about as a potential Pacers target. However, Indiana would be reluctant to give up second-year guard Bennedict Mathurin or rookie Jarace Walker in any trade.
  • Warriors forward Andrew Wiggins is looked upon as another potential Pacers target but it may be difficult for Golden State to create a market for him, Stein writes. Wiggins not only has three more years left on his contract, his production has nosedived.
  • Dorian Finney-Smith and Royce O’Neale could be on the move. The Nets are listening to offers for both of those forwards and Stein suggests the Cavaliers should pursue O’Neale, considering they need a wing and he’s close friends with Donovan Mitchell. O’Neale has an expiring contract, while Finney-Smith is signed through 2025/26.
  • Speaking of expiring contracts, the Magic are “exploring the trade market” the top pick of the 2017 draft. They’ve made guard Markelle Fultz and his $17MM expiring deal available, along with center Wendell Carter Jr, per Stein.
  • Another team dangling expiring contracts is the Spurs. Forwards Doug McDermott and Cedi Osman are available for teams looking to clear cap room this summer or upgrade their second unit, according to Stein.