Central Notes: Pacers, Hayward, Kennard, Pistons, Bucks, Bulls

In a pair of stories, Scott Agness of Fieldhouse Files and J. Michael of The Indianapolis Star (subscription required) provide a few additional details on the Pacers‘ pursuit of Gordon Hayward in free agency, confirming that the Celtics sought a second starting player in addition to Myles Turner in a potential Hayward sign-and-trade. That lines up with what Gary Washburn of The Boston Globe reported last week.

Agness says that Hayward and his family purchased a home in the Indianapolis area over a year ago and that his wife was excited about the possibility of moving back to Indiana. However, Ainge apparently drove a hard bargain in trade discussions — Michael reports that even an offer of Turner, a first-round pick, and a rotation player (possibly Doug McDermott, as Washburn reported) wasn’t enough to win over the Celtics.

It’s possible that the hard line drawn by Ainge wouldn’t have ultimately mattered — the Hornets‘ offer of four years and $120MM was about $15MM higher than the Pacers were willing to go, according to Agness. That difference certainly may have been enough to lure Hayward to Charlotte even if the Pacers and Celtics had agreed to trade terms.

Still, both Agness’ and Michael’s reports seem to suggest there was a window when the two teams’ inability to work out a sign-and-trade agreement may have been the only thing standing in the way of Hayward going to Indiana. According to Michael, once the Hornets put their $120MM offer on the table, Ainge wanted to go back to the Pacers to negotiate in “good faith,” but Hayward’s agent Mark Bartelstein “pulled the plug” on that as the veteran forward chose Charlotte.

Here’s more from around the Central:

  • It flew under the radar a little since it wasn’t reported as part of the initial agreement, but the Pistons gave up an eye-popping four second-round picks in their deal that sent Luke Kennard to the Clippers and landed them No. 19 pick Saddiq Bey. According to ESPN’s Zach Lowe (Insider link), those four second-rounders “appear to have been in part the cost of Kennard’s past knee issues.” However, Kennard’s camp is confident those issues are behind him, and it seems the Clippers are too, writes Lowe.
  • While the 2020 draft may not be packed with future stars, Pistons general manager Troy Weaver said his club “really liked” this year’s class, which was why the team traded for multiple extra picks. “We liked the players that were in it and we just felt there were quality young men that could help continue to build our program, we were aggressive,” Weaver said, per Rod Beard of The Detroit News. Referring to Bey, Killian Hayes, Isaiah Stewart, and Saben Lee, the Pistons’ GM added, “Hopefully, we can look back in time and call this our core four.”
  • The failed Bogdan Bogdanovic sign-and-trade was a bad look for the franchise, but Matt Velazquez of The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (subscription required) contends there’s a case to be made that the Bucks will ultimately be better off with the moves they made instead. Not landing Bogdanovic allowed Milwaukee to offer more than the minimum to add role players like D.J. Augustin, Bobby Portis, and Bryn Forbes, and the team didn’t end up having to part with promising 23-year-old Donte DiVincenzo.
  • In his latest mailbag, K.C. Johnson of NBC Sports Chicago fields questions about the Bulls‘ surprising No. 4 draft pick and the club’s relatively quiet free agent period.
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44 thoughts on “Central Notes: Pacers, Hayward, Kennard, Pistons, Bucks, Bulls

  1. Wonder if Hayward is going to bail the C’s out by agreeing to a sign and trade with the Hornets. If he really wanted to go to Indiana it’s gotta sting that Ainge was only throwing out unreasonable offers to make it happen

    • that ship has sailed…
      a) the hornets had cap space
      b) the hornets wouldn’t have much to trade that made sense for Boston.

      Can only think Ainge really didn’t want Turner on his club and would rather have no return on the asset, and some cap space.

      • El Don

        CHA mustn’t add any asset, they must get them from BOS that is the whole point!

      • The hornets didn’t need to help Boston out by gifting a trade exception. I was muddling the focus with Indiana who offered that package with Turner, where Ainge must really not have wanted Turner and his contract to not pull the trigger there, preferring to keep the cap space for other players and having no return with CHA.

  2. mike.honcho

    Would you look at that …….. Ainge did overplay his hand after all.

    I wish I had the receipts with me.

    • Curtisrowe

      “It’s possible that the hard line drawn by Ainge wouldn’t have ultimately mattered — the Hornets‘ offer of four years and $120MM was about $15MM higher than the Pacers were willing to go” You gotta start reading the ENTIRE article bro, not just the parts you like.

      • OrienGreene

        Charlotte offered more money than Indiana. Hayward took the money. Ainge doesn’t value Turner highly. It’s not that exciting a story TBH.

        • bdpecore

          I don’t think Hayward and his agent were interested in other destinations until Ainge kept denying Indiana’s trade proposals. Turner, McDermott and a first is more than fair when you’re alternative is losing him for nothing. Turner and McDermott is a huge upgrade over Tristan Thompson who they ended up using the full MLE to sign.

          I guarantee it wasn’t because Ainge didn’t want Turner since it’s been reported for years his interest in acquiring Myles. Ainge simply overplayed his hand and lost when his bluff was called.

          • OrienGreene

            “Ainge simply overplayed his hand and lost when his bluff was called.”

            Or Charlotte offered way more money.

      • mike.honcho

        Exactly …….. I understood it well.

        You might want to read past first few paragraphs. I’ll attach one portion for you, see below.

        “Still, both Agness’ and Michael’s reports seem to suggest there was a window when the two teams’ inability to work out a sign-and-trade agreement may have been the only thing standing in the way of Hayward going to Indiana.”

        Article indicates it well, that its likely that the haggling between Ainge and the PACERS took some time – likely because of Ainge’s demands.

        This extended window of days, ultimately paved the way for the HORNETS to make an offer, which GH deemed to good to pass up.

        • buttholesurfer69 2

          You can agree or disagree on the value of Turner but Ainge wasn’t high on him then that’s not really “overplaying” a hand.

          It’s just turning down an offer you don’t like.

          In which case Indiana is probably as big if not a bigger loser than BOS. Because BOS was never gonna pay Hayward long-term anyway. IND actually wanted the guy. BOS just wanted something they valued in return.

  3. Ainge got greedy and will ultimately walk away with nothing. But I think as a Celtics fan that’s almost okay. Let Heyward walk, give more minutes to somebody else and that 34 million going away is a godsend really.

    • Curtisrowe

      They got Thompson instead of Turner, for half the money. It’s kind of irrelevant.

      • bdpecore

        I guess this works since Thompson is only provides about half the skills Turner does. I’m sure Boston doesn’t need a C who can stretch the floor, defend the PnR or can play above the rim. Every team needs a big bodied, bruising plodder in the playoffs who can be benched when their opponent goes small to close out games. (FYI I’m being sarcastic if you can’t tell)

        • OrienGreene

          You ever hear of Daniel Theis?

          Celtics needed someone who can bang with big guys and get rebounds.

        • Chris_Favreau

          Theis and Grant Williams are still on the roster… They more than work in a small bag lineup…plus there’s still Time Lord to turn to if he can ever learn the defensive rotations. I think that the other consideration is that Turner’s contract would restrict the C’s in the future… I’m not an expert, but I don’t believe that he’s twice as good as Thompson, even though his contract is almost twice as much for one additional year.

        • mike.honcho

          Exactly ……… contracts aside, Turner does more things than Turner. He has a long-ball and defends well. He fits the timelines of both Tatum & Brown as well.

          Both Williams are still too raw, while Theis can’t keep off foul trouble, ever.

  4. Sillivan

    Fair trade would be
    Hornets get Hayward
    Celtics get 33 million TPE
    Thunder get Batum AND
    Celtics 2021 top 20 protected First
    Hornets 2021 And 2022 Seconds

    • Or if BOS needs a player to fill the Hayward gap, here is a similar framework as above:

      Hornets: Hayward
      Spurs: Batum, picks
      Celtics: Aldridge

  5. I thought the Pistons spent (in cap space and draft capital) like drunk sailors through the draft and FA. But I like Weaver’s moxy regarding the draft. There was a lot of late lottery level talent in the late teens of this draft, and he just went out and got two of those picks. Stewart and Bey may not have the upside of the top 10 picks, but they are rock solid players. We’ll see.

  6. formerlyz

    Detroit putting together an interesting roster, adding multiple defenders and wing shooters, if they can stay healthy…which is potentially an issue when 2 of your better players are Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose

    Josh Jackson
    Wayne Ellington
    Saddiq Bey
    Jerami Grant
    Blake Griffin

    Derrick Rose, Delon Wright, Sekou Doumbouya, Svi Mykhailiu, Isaiah Stewart/Okafor/Mason Plumlee, Killian Hayes

    …if they’re keeping McGruder, he should obviously be in that rotation

  7. That Hayward sign & trade story is fake news..
    C’s didn’t take Turner a 1 & McDermott for H who was leaving anyways…

    That H deal is terrible, Turner at that contract is more valuable than heyward alone.

    Not to mentions Celtics biggest roster home is clearly center, why would they not want turner as a the ultimate 3 & D center..

    DJ Augustin will be a missing piece for MIL

    • Montezuma

      Nope. Turner is an overpaid average player. Celtics didn’t want that asset weighing them down. If Turner is such a great asset, why was Indy willing to trade him plus other assets for a 30 year old oft injured player about to enter his decline? Fake news? Seriously? Half a dozen or more credible reporters have all reported roughly the same information and it’s coming from both sides.

        • Clearly Danny didn’t want the long term money on the books, at a position increasingly being devalued around the league.

      • BishopL

        He plays defence shoots threes and is someone they could have used against Miami. Bam had a field day against them. Boston fans should be passed ainge got in his own way. Of making the team better. All those assets and it hasn’t resulted in much of anything for them.

        • buttholesurfer69 2

          In much? They were a game away from the Finals last year and have a top 5 under 25 dude in Tatum locked up for 5 years

          Pretty sure theyre doing alright

    • Take LaMarcus Aldridge into the trade exception, if they’re able to work it out with CHA.

    • Chris_Favreau

      Yeah, because he sucks and there are so many obviously better GM candidates out there…

      • davidkaner

        Not the point…..it’s his second attempt to leverage a free agent leaving and it’s the second time he came away with nothing. He didn’t learn the first time. He’s trying to win with a pair of 2’s and the other teams know it. A big set of balls only matters if you win the trade. He’s looking to rape a team & so he loses. 0-2 on top free agents leaving. Its a pattern now.

  8. raz427

    Bulls aiming for Cade Cunningham next year! I see this team completely tanking and bottoming out. This season will be god awful. Still didn’t address the PG, have a logjam with Markkanen, WCJ, Gafford, Thad Young. AK values passing and cutting, something Markkanen doesn’t well on either end of the spectrum. I see him likely being dealt so they don’t have to pay him for the RFA deal he is scheduled to make after this year.

  9. davidkaner

    Let’s be clear here. Ainge’s ego got too large and thought he could leverage Indy and Hayward emotions. He had a first round pick & a player for a guy who was leaving. You take it and run. Now what does he have? Cap space….good luck with that….

  10. LordBanana

    People trying pretty hard to defend a GM that hasn’t achieved much in a decade

  11. KnickerbockerAl

    link to nba.nbcsports.com
    This says Celtics were offered #1 pick and Turner. This is true Danny definitely Blew It. I’ve always said. They should have moved him at deadline. Still Thompson and Teague was a nice comeback. Celtics still need a rim protector imo.

  12. FingerRowe

    Celtics and Hornets and OKC should just send Batum to OKC and Horfird to Celtics… Win Win for all

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