Warriors forward Jonathan Kuminga is set to hit restricted free agency this summer after an up-and-down fourth season in Golden State. As Anthony Slater of The Athletic details, Kuminga’s future with the Warriors is uncertain due a number of factors.
League sources tell Slater that Kuminga still views himself as a future All-Star and is trying to find a home where he can have an expansive offensive role to showcase his abilities. The 22 year-old forward had a rocky playoff run, having been outside of the rotation for most of the first-round series against Houston, only to have a featured role in the second-round series vs. Minnesota after Stephen Curry sustained a hamstring strain.
Kuminga was an effective and efficient scorer (24.3 PPG on .554/.389/.720 shooting) in those four games against a strong defense, Slater notes, giving some credence to the notion that the former lottery pick could put up big individual numbers under the right conditions. And despite some differences of opinion in how Kuminga sees — and values — himself and the way the team has wanted him to play, none of the differences between the involved parties are “irreconcilable,” according to Slater’s sources.
However, Kuminga may not be able to achieve his individual goals playing for the Warriors, who are trying to build out a championship roster around Curry, Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler. The “cleanest path” forward might be finding a sign-and-trade that could work for both the Warriors and Kuminga, Slater writes.
As Slater observes, head coach Steve Kerr has long hoped Kuminga would become a Shawn Marion-type player — someone who can excel without the ball, defend multiple positions, and rebound at a high level. But Kuminga is more of a ball-dominant scorer who is inconsistent in other areas, making his on-court fit in Kerr’s system an awkward one at times.
While the Nets are not currently expected to give Kuminga an offer sheet, Brooklyn may be open to the idea of multi-team sign-and-trade scenarios this offseason as a means to maximize its cap space, league sources tell Slater. That could give the Warriors, Kuminga, Nets and interested suitors a mutually beneficial way of finding something they’re all seeking.
The problem with a potential sign-and-trade, Slater explains, is that Kuminga will be subject to base year compensation rules, and the Warriors would be hard-capped at the first apron if they take back more than 50% of Kuminga’s starting salary. While everyone involved is “expected to explore all options,” due to the aforementioned restrictions, Warriors sources have been dropping hints to Slater that the “most obvious and prudent path” might be simply re-signing Kuminga.
Going that route would give Golden State more time to assess Kuminga’s fit, and the base-year restrictions would be removed in that scenario in January, when Kuminga would theoretically become trade-eligible.
Owner Joe Lacob is known to be a big fan of Kuminga’s and told the young forward to stay open-minded about a potential return, according to Slater, who hears Kuminga “hasn’t slammed the door shut” on that possibility. The Warriors have final say due to Kuminga being a RFA, but Slater suggests Kuminga might not be thrilled with a reunion unless certain circumstances change.
Kuminga to the Sixers for the 3rd pick. Thoughts?
How you gonna pull that off within the rules? Also I doubt that GSW want a prospect outside Flagg when trying to win now with an aging core, and the value of 3 is way less than 1 and 2 for asset purposes where most good draft people have the 3-8 prospects all sort of the same.
Even if it worked under the rules why would Philly do that? #3 is way too high for him. Would have to attach someone else or another pick.
It also costs you less if you trade for the #8 pick if the guy you like out of those 5 gets there since that far down a few teams have several picks and are maybe shopping a few.
Kuminga is better option to build with than any non-Flagg player in the draft. Kuminga is only 23 next season. If anything that’s way too light for an elite talent like Kuminga.
But the Ws don’t have any leverage to extract a pick that high. It’s obvious that they don’t want to keep him at the offer sheet he’s going to get.
He isnt going to get an offer sheet since BRK are the only team that can offer him a real one. Im not sure but I dont think you can make an offer with anything besides cap room so only a team with real cap space not an exemption can make an offer.
Its only a question of if he would take the QO if he isnt able to leave, since GSW will probably offer him a real deal with a promise to deal him soon if it doesnt work.
I’m also not sure about these arcane nba cap rules, but you may be right. This is one where Nets have very little to lose and much more to gain, imo… unless they get locked into an expensive deal for JK and he flops or gets hurt.
But the upside with him looks pretty big. And again, trying to sign a young rising FA next summer is going to be a lot more difficult with a lot more teams having cap space.
I think that once the fantasy of Giannis passes, the Nets will realize that they have to build something before they will be a desirable destination for top players. For now, Kuminga seems like a no-brainer especially if it won’t break the bank to get him.
I think the Nets will get better value renting their cap space to facilitate deals between other teams since they could scrape a bunch of value on the side of potential Giannis/KD deals. Also I think the Nets really want to be bad next year since they traded for their own pick back and next season is supposed to be a really good draft in the top 5. Like they can roll cap space into next season or the year after and sign a proven star to go with a top draft pick rather than pay Kuminga semi-star money in the hopes he can turn into a super star before the next contract.
I feel like its more of a team thats below the tax who can take him in a sign and trade, but then you need a player that makes a little more than half what Kumingas deal is, that will be more valuable to this team than Kumingas skill set. If the perfect deal doesnt arrive the team could get way more for Kuminga + picks after DEC when his full salary is counted for matching.
Problem is the draft lottery is a huge risk, as we’ve seen. And so, merely ‘having their own pick’ isn’t a good enough reason to throw away another whole season when they have a great opportunity to add good young players now. The idea of waiting till an elite Giannis level player falls in their laps is a bad strategy to count on.
Unless he hits his like 98th percentile I dont think Kuminga is a #1 on a title team, he may not even be a #2 so do you really want to commit to paying and rostering your #3 on a big contract before you find your #1-2? I think you want to create roster flexibility and lots of bites at the draft apple in a 3-4 year window so you can miss on some and still hit on enough. Beyond that the main thing OKC did was just do asset acquisition with any positive value transactions until they had found the multiple core pieces.
Ideally you want to have most of your best players on their first or second contracts at the same time since it gives you a lot more room to fill out the roster with real highly useful pieces during the start of your run.
I don’t agree… the idea of #1 or 2 or 3 is a dated notion. You just acquire good players when you can and be opportunistic about it.
There’s no rule that says you have to acquire your best player before you can get your complimentary players. And thing about Kuminga is that he hasn’t reached his ceiling yet and we don’t really know how good he can be. It’s worth taking that shot imo.
As weve seen you can try and run the warriors system, but without Curry it just doesnt work. Think of it this way a 1 is a top 10 in the league player. You can build a roster without one thats good, but the NBA is so top heavy in terms of value and playoff min that you need like amazing amazing 3-6 guys to make up for 1 Curry/Joker/SGA/Giannis/Bron type. And one of those dudes can totally beat a superior group of players in a series if they are clearly the best individual player. Like the team that won the 22 finals would have been one of the worst in the league without Steph.
ShaqFoo said:
> You just acquire good players when you can and be
> opportunistic about it.
Well stated. No team believes it needs to acquire it’s #1 player before it’s #2 or #3.
ChapmansVaccum said:
> do you really want to commit to paying and
> rostering your #3 on a big contract before you find
> your #1-2?
Damn straight! A #3 on a 5yr rookie extension at $30M for 5 years is a no-brainer for any NBA GM, especially for a 22 yr old that might be a #2 or #1.
I wouldn’t pay $40M for a #3 though.
Once you start signing big long term deals and then tacking on years you lose flexability to do a lot of the things that increase your odds of getting a top player.
Like TOR is a tax team thats been built sort of like that. They arent in the playoffs in the super weak east, but they are also to good to draft in the top top often, and cant sign or draft a centerpiece player. So they have a team full of players a lot of whom are decent individually, but it totally doesnt work as a team. I just dont like this paying a lot for a bad team. Part of the reason OKC got so many assets was they just churned every asset but SGA that made any money into more future assets and then made the finals with 2 of their 3 main guys on rookie deals.
I think with the new CBA it becomes more important when rebuilding to clear the decks of contracts, and keep dealing the money you take back into more assets till your left with a Kemba Walker you just stretch or buyout. I dont think SGA/Chet/JW are the best core 3 in the NBA, but they have like 11 guys that could be top 8 in most rotations all on super good deals, and I dont think they would have gotten there if they had started extending DS and CP3 or Galinari. They needed that cap space and roster spots to do the teardown right. With the second apron and most contenders having no cap space nowadays being the broker in the market for 2-3 seasons lets you arbitrage a bunch of value from thin air.
> Once you start signing big long term deals and then
> tacking on years you lose flexability to do a lot of
> !the things that increase your odds of getting a top > player.
Yes, for older players, but definitely not for younger players. By design, the CBA makes rookie extensions the best value and the veteran max deals the worst.
It’s about accumulating assets with the best value, and avoiding assets with the worst value. That’s where you get flexibility.
Look at the Butler and Paul George deals — at $60M/yr, those contracts limit flexibility.
The CBA intentionally makes rookie contract extensions the best asset a team can have, especially 4-5 year rookie extensions, whether rebuilding or not. Tatum and Brown were making in the low 30’s on their rookie extensions when the Celtics went on their run.
Its not the contract quality its just that having cap space is one of the best ways to acquire assets for free. If your capped out your pathways to more assets are much fewer.
The rookie deals make it easier to keep a team together, but with asset acquisition its keeping cap space open, and being ok with buying out over paid bigger names for nothing when you hit the end of the transaction road.
ChapmansVaccum said:
> its just that having cap space is one of the best
> ways to acquire assets for free.
What are these assets that you can “acquire for free”?
Free agents? Not many of good ones these days unless you’re an LA team.
MLE’s? Those tend to be role players.
Since most players are extended now rather than reaching FA far fewer teams have appreciable cap space. Being a team that can facilitate allows you to take unwanted contracts in deals, some of which you can re trade since not all matching salary is created equal. You dont send any assets out you simply get in on the deals.
Like OKC got more than 1/3 of their picks in the huge pick acquisition spree off simply taking on unwanted salary between teams that couldnt do the deals on their own, or ones that needed to jettison a player for nothing to then complete the deal they wanted. They got a 1st for taking on Derrek Favors 10M deal… Most of the best picks they got were from either shipping out the best players at the start of the rebuild or their own, but they got a ton of seconds and protected firsts just being the middle man on trades. The only downside is no longer being allowed to roll cap space into the season since in season trades are harder to complete always so being able to middle in season usually gets you a bigger premium.
On top of the trade aspect when you keep cap space open you always have your MLE and other exemptions so it will bring back additional picks to sign some of the better mid tier FA as MLEs and then flip them mid season. You can get protected firsts for good signings on guys like Divincenzo that are MLE types at the trade deadline from contenders easily.
It helps a lot to be all in on the rebuild where the only players you keep are maybe one young star on the fun max (SGA), and guys on rookie deals. It lets you use the asset of being unconcerned with winning to maximize the rebuild. If you go the OKC route and JW doesnt work out you can just deal 5 1sts for a #2, so it lets you try for the draft your stars route, with the trade for them as plan B. If plan A works your left with enough assets to keep a deep team while turning over the guys like Dort/Hart eventually to keep a reasonable payroll while still maintaining a premium roster, or you have some left after you trade a good chunk for an established star.
Chap- it’s fun to talk about this stuff with you, but now you’re too far away from my thinking to find any common ground.
No yeah its fun stuff to think about.
I just dont see many scenarios where signing Kuminga for 35M per over 5 seasons leads to a contender in BRK, so I figure theres better uses of that cap room. Like he has more upside, but Cam Thomas is already a better scorer who makes defensive mistakes, and hes already in house so they know him. Thomas prolly costs less than Kuminga also.
Im just big on going full teardown until you find your crown jewel and then try to fill in the right pieces around that make your strategy and coaching style work. I like Kumingas upside, but I think he would end up the crown jewel maybe 8% of the time. He needs to be a way smarter defender that doesnt get lost ball watching and over helping, and he needs to be a say 15% better 2pt shooter not in make rate but skill, and 35% better 3pt skills, including some off the bounce movement shooting off screens for that to happen. His 95% in 5 years is prolly peak Jimmy Butler with better 3pt shooting, since hes already about as good.
Chap, Ok, I’m willing to talk about JK. I like thinking in a range of probabilities, as you do, above.
Another consideration: his superior on-ball defense and 3-point defense substantially raise his floor. You can’t teach freakish athleticism and size. Yes, his help defense needs work, but that comes with experience. Jaylen Brown and Giannis were terrible help defenders in their first few years, but they got there eventually.
The higher floor makes teams less uncomfortable with a longer contract.
I believe the support for Kuminga’s upside amongst NBA scouts is stronger than yours. Kuminga’s stats over the last 2 years when he either, one, plays 24 minutes or more or, two, starts, are extremely impressive. In those cases, he scores ~26 points per 36 minutes — surprisingly close to Anthony Edwards under those conditions. And he does better against the best competition.
Is he a Top 10 player in 6 years? We agree that’s unlikely. But I believe he can be a #2 guy on a contending team as a strong 2-way player. Pascal Siakkam, Sean Marion, and Jaylen Brown are the comps.
I’m pretty comfortable saying that if Kuminga had been drafted by a crappy team like Houston or Detroit, where he would have been horrendous in his first 2 years, he’d have much higher stock
I mostly wonder about his BBall IQ since thats the stuff he seems to be lagging in. Like he is good on ball, but in the modern NBA you need to be able to function in switch and zone. He cant just play box and one as the one which he could rule at. Like I wonder if this is as good as he is defensively since his athleticism is peaking the next 2 years, and if anything I feel like he has gotten worse on D since his rookie year not better.
He is a bucket going downhill in a way thats truly special. It just sucks that he is like so many of these GSW where he cant stick the wide open 3 when defenses just dont respect him. Its like we get burned by every Aldama/McConnel type on every 3 thats remotely open, but our guys cant hit the warm up ones on complete breakdowns. He attacks the basket well and then shoots poorly from the line to negate it some. Really though if he can become an avg 3pt shooter consistently everything else is minor. It also doesnt help that he has these amazing games followed by 1-11 with 9 MJ fadeaway jumpers while well guarded and like 6 utter bonehead defensive lapses.
I find his stock super hard to peg. He was hyped, and anyone can watch tape and see flashes or look at some of his stats and be really excited. I just have no idea what hes worth to other teams. I think he might be on a decent deal for GSW if he stays, since this was a terrible time for him to hit RFA.
Such an elite talent that he found himself on the bench during the playoffs until the Warriors desperately needed offense with Curry injured. Teams are tripping over themselves to give up a king’s ransom for Kuminga.
For the record, I do think Kuminga can be a solid player but the Warriors just have no leverage in a deal. Anybody who trades for Kuminga needs to extend him so him being young doesn’t matter as much. Its a weak draft but a high lottery pick is still a lot for Kuminga.
What teams are tripping over themselves to trade for JK?
Yeah Kuminga was on the bench simply because Kerr is an idiot who wants to play Pat Spencer-types over actual elite talents, I have been saying it for years at this point. Kerr is the only reason why Kuminga is an elite talent who is behind in his development because Kerr has put zero effort into developing him. Catch up.
GSW should fire Kerr and replace him with Andre.
> Its a weak draft but a high lottery pick is still a lot for Kuminga.
Seriously? No way, Lacob or Dunleavey trade for Kuminga for that anything lower than the 2nd pick. At 18 years old, Kuminga was a high lottery pick in the deepest draft since 2003. He’s still only 22 years old, and he’s “de-risked”.
The draft is still a crap shoot, even for lottery picks. 40% of the top 15 picks are out of the NBA by year 6. 25% of the top 10 picks are released by the teams that drafted them before being offered a rookie extension. This year, Cooper Flagg looks like a sure thing, and probably Dylan Harper.
Assuming a draft pick sticks in the NBA, it takes time to develop. Victor Wembynyama and Chet Holmgren are the only players drafted in the last 5 years that could start for a championship contender by their second year, and that includes Anthony Edwards.
The Warriors need a starting calibre player that can help in the next 2 years. Cooper Flagg and, maybe, Dylan Harper can do that.
Their only leverage is to keep him then. And it seems pretty clear that they don’t think there’s room for someone on their bench at $20M+ per, assuming that would be the kind of offer sheet he gets. And given their cap situation, it’ll cost them more than that to keep him. So yeah they’re pretty boxed in.
> And it seems pretty clear that they don’t think
> there’s room for someone on their bench at $20M+
> per,
Disagree because Lavon has said several times over this past season that he does expect to sign Kuminga and pay the penalty.
Whether it’s Kuminga or not, GSW can certainly afford it and Dunleavey said that they must have a “reliable” 3rd scorer. That costs money.
Keep in mind that the Big 3 will be 38, 36, and 36 years old.
I agree with what you’re saying, tho I don’t know what they’re comfortable spending. Obviously they didn’t need to get Jimmy if they were big believers in JK. Regardless, I’ve just put out there what I have been seeing… that said, I’m sure the Dubs don’t want to lose JK for nothing. I’m sure they are open to a s&t.
Shaq , good points. I’d argue that nobody in the org has expected Kuminga to be a top 20 player in the next two years. JK, Podz, and Moody are 22 years old. Owner/Lacob and GM/Dunleavey want to enable them to develop as secondary players, and then be ready when the Big 3 is gone in 24 months. (Few on this board share that perspective, but they don’t have to worry about empty seats.)
Slater’s article addresses the organization’s challenge: the coach and Big 3 care only about the next 24 months, and prefer to trade the youth now for vets. That’s the perspective of most on this board.
I mean Okoro had no offers last season, and CLE got to bargain him down pretty low compared to what people thought he wanted/could get. If BRK doesnt do an offer sheet and no other team creates cap space to make one, then GSW have so much more leverage than JK since the qualifying offer is still so much less than even a below market deal from them.
Chapman, why would they want to sign him for less than his market value?
Are you joking?
Because Kuminga on 4/40 would be super valuable in a lot of scenarios. It would basically be a second rookie scale deal. Now I think he takes the QO over something that cheap, but the lower it goes the easier it is to trade him for positive value. The only upside to giving him more is having a larger matching salary in a trade.
If you get Kuminga on a deal that isnt insane you can use at least the TPMLE also which would help fill out the roster for this year.
Like would he say no to a 2+1 thats a little back loaded on like 3/75M if nothing else is out there?
> Because Kuminga on 4/40 would be super valuable.
Do you understand why that would never happen?
Kuminga can sign a 1 year deal for $8M and be a UFA after 1 year, after which he is in the best possible position on the market.
Why would any party commit to a price that grossly undervalues an asset and, moreover, locks them in for 4 years?
Thats my point I said he wouldnt do 4/40, but in the same way Okoro took a deal that was at somewhere in the 60-80% range of his actual market value coming off a decent season, Kuminga may take 70% of his value if he has no path to any more. I think he would be a little insane to turn down 24M to take 8M along with the future guarantees beyond that year just as injury coverage. He hasnt made enough, I would think, to turn down 75M locked in for 8M and maybe more if he has a great year in GSW. Being an RFA is pretty bad especially in a year with zero cap space, but almost nobody turns down never worry about money again money to bet on themselves.
The real question is what would his maximum contract be in a world where all teams had cap space and hes UFA? Like is he 5/135M in an unencumbered market?
Chapman , We keep on coming back to why Lakob and Dunleavey don’t want a contract for Kuminga that doesn’t reflect his true market value.
Read the Slater article: they’re inclined to sign him and keep him for six months so they can get his full value, not 1/2, if they trade him.
It’s in nobody’s interest for Kuminga to sign a deal that is obviously below market value.
I will take him on 4/12M all day long and just keep him because of the value he can provide at 3M lols.
Aristotle, I get your point, but don’t you think that having a player on a low salary is good in certain scenarios? Don’t you think that Mikal’s rather low salary is what contributed to Brooklyn getting so much for him in that trade with NY?
Not that it matters for Kuminga, he will not sign and will not be signed to a contract below his value. But in general.
Peter_Cantrope, if a team knows that it doesn’t want to trade a player in the future then it absolutely makes sense to pay him as little as possible, as was the case with Mikal Bridges. Great example, by the way.
However, with Kuminga, GSW wants to keep the trade option open, in which case they don’t want his contract to be under the value of what they could get in return.
If the Nets offer 4/108M, what do the Dubs do?
Easy match. Otherwise you lose him for nothing. I think Kuminga on 27M at the deadline lets you do some stuff with all the draft assets as well.
Sure, but will that cause the Dubs to try and make a deal with Bklyn? No one wants a $27M player they see as redundant on their roster.
When you can only take back like 13M on that right now, yeah I think you live with being uncomfortable for a half season because the rules basically force you to trade him later instead.
Also Im not positive it doesnt work better. Kuminga was rolling when he got hurt. After he missed almost 3 months he came back slow with it still bothering him and under performed. His jump shot was a complete mess when he got back and was way worse from 3 than it was when he got hurt. I thought he just never got back in rhythm in the regular season. So I could see them working out some lineup with Post and Kuminga with some time in the preseason to figure things out more. He was playing good in the playoffs the last series so not sure he couldnt do that with Steph. He is still young so if he spent the whole summer working on his 3 and D he could take another leap too.
Chapman said:
>!Also Im not positive it doesnt work better. Kuminga
> was rolling when he got hurt.
Listen to the Dunleavey interview on the day after the playoffs ended. He agrees with you. He talks about “what happens if somebody gets injured early in the season?”
No core as old as our Big 3 has come close to winning a NBA Championship before. Posters here forget the Big 3 will be 38, 36, and 36 years old. They will likely miss 55-60 games between them.
Dunleavey says the team needs to figure out who to rely on when the old guys are inured or resting.
I mean from how everything has played since they were eliminated we now know that Butler was still hurt from the fall, Podz had a wrap on his shooting hand in the Wolves series and got it fixed after, Moody also had a wrist procedure done, and of course Stephs hammy. I think they still beat the Wolves if Steph doesnt get hurt, and maybe beat OKC, since I think theyre one of OKCs worst matchups, if all 4 are healthy.
Like this team had a real shot at another title this year if the injury bug hadnt bitten.
They need to go get some help though since they do have their picks. This team needs one more starting calibre player, and more 3pt shooting off the bench.
I think they try to move Butler to a 3rd team for assets and combine those with all the picks for Giannis. I just dont know if Giannis will make any attempt to steer his way to the Warriors, or what the offers will be from other teams. Warriors draft picks that come after Steph retires are on the upper end of draft pick values as opposed to OKC who shouldnt have a single OKC pick better than 25 the next 7 years. People talk up OKC/SAS assets, but those teams are so young and good already that 1sts from them are really not much better than high seconds.
GS match in any case, they will match even if he gets the max from someone (which he won’t).
The real max I think they pause and think, but anything where the signing team thinks the contract is good I think they match.
The hornets must trade the 4 pick for Kuminga
Nets are unlikely to make a offer to Kuminga
Kuminga is a cold product
Warriors would have to take bad contracts for SNT
Huerter and 12th pick for Kuminga
That is the best SNT offer Warriors can get
Below teams don’t want Kuminga
Wizards
Spurs
Pelicans
Sulliovan you are so funny if it was the lakers trading Kuminga you would have them gettinf Flagg for Kuminga. 12th pick in the draft is not that great of a position and to take a bad player back is even worse.
Sullivan that 12th pick is a bit much,any second rounders available instead?
I really wonder if they offer that much. RFAs rarely get that much in a s&t bc the team losing the FA has no leverage.
In Kuminga’s case is they don’t want him to be lost for nothing. So they can match a contract since it will not be a large deal.
Everyone is pumping the idea that the Nets aren’t seeking anything. Not buying that.
The Nets GM said that he was only going after polished free agents. They have a boat load of picks. Why screw it up and sign a FA now.
why screw up losing..?
Teams have to rebuild at some point. The CBA limits what you can spend. So, why waste a lot of money on FAs?
Next summer there will be a lot of teams with cap space… then good luck getting any FAs to sign there.
I doubt the Nets will be contenders next summer.
I doubt it also. It’s a multi-yr progression.
It makes more sense for Kuminga to stay. There is a better path for him to succeed. If he had been more consistent last season, the would never have traded for Butler. They were able to play Wiggins and JK together with some success. Butler is obviously better than Wiggins. He can learn from Butler. Having a camp together, they can work on the issues that couldn’t be addressed in a playoff chase.
He has to stay
Nobody would offer anything SNT
Warriors don’t let him walk for nothing
Warriors don’t take bad contract like Huerter
I’m sort of assuming that Kerr will sort of think of a new system that allows JK to be the primary next year. Just to help manage all the minutes for Curry and Butler. Maybe not a completely brand new one, but I think he’ll start incorporate some of the sets he had when KD was on the team.
Just wish JK hustled more for boards, etc.
Stay with Kerr? Cmon. I don’t know what Kuminga can become, but I’m sure he won’t become anything of note under Kerr. Kerr wants him to be three’n D player. And on low-ish salary like Moody – that’s why he didn’t play him too much, to keep his value down. I think it would be a waste of talent and time to try to do that. His 4 years in San Francisco have already been mostly a waste, he did not develop there. The guy can score with ease on the likes of Gobert under the basket or on Houston’s defenders, and he had it in him from day 1. He added very little to what he had.
What saves the player is that he was one of those 18 yo rookies with a late birthday. He’s only 3 months older than Amen Thompson, so he has a lot of basketball ahead of him.
I have been very disappointed with Kuminga and Giddey’s time at their respective teams. Those were not good landing spots for them, for sure. That 2021 draft class has so much talent, it’s crazy. Kuminga would be head and shoulders above everybody else in the 2024 draft class and a clear No. 1 pick.
Claiming Kerr didn’t play JK just to “keep his value down” is one of the worst takes I’ve heard on here
Okay, I agree that was a reach to say that, Kerr is a coach, not a manager. But still, Kuminga’s entire time there gave me the impression that as an organisation, they never wanted to be in a situation where they would have to give him a contract like they did to Poole or the one Wagner received last summer.
What do you by Kerr not wanting to play Kuminga? That was obviously not true. He played him lot. He struggled with his shooting. Why can’t you see that?
Giants74 said:
> What do you by Kerr not wanting to play Kuminga? That was
> obviously not true. He played him lot. He struggled with his
> shooting. Why can’t you see that?
You may be the only person on this board that thinks any of those things are true, but keep on saying it.
For the first 3 years of his career, Kuminga was 60% true shooter, which is higher than the league average and significantly higher than what players on rookie contracts typically do. He was shooting much better than Wagner, who only got more stats because he played 24% more minutes per game than Kuminga in 23-24. And Wagner got the max.
Kuminga is an efficient scorer, but in Kerr’s (and probably most GS fans’ world) “good scorer” from positions 1-4 is only somebody who’s making 3s at 40%+ rate.
Scoring is not just about threes, which Kuminga clearly showed during his time, and in that Minnesota series, when he could efficiently score on Gobert while Butler was just turning away from the basket every time he saw Rudy there.
Peter_Cantrope, here’s a bit more perspective because the analytics show exactly when Kuminga is an efficient scorer or not. He’s highly efficient when he handles the ball on the wing, and highly inefficient when stationary in the corner. And it has little to do with 3 point shooting.
When used efficiently, as in the 2nd half of 2023-24, Kuminga was part of the 2nd most effective 5 man lineup in the NBA, as measured by point differential over 400+ possessions. The 5 were Steph, Podz, Dray, JK, and Wiggins.
The problem is that beginning Oct 2024, as the analytics show, Kerr made a deliberate choice about not running actions for Kuminga on the wing or in the post (which may be for the better of the team, but that’s another discussion.) And Kerr said last week that he has no intention of changing the offense for next season if Kuminga stays.
You’re right: Kuminga could be an efficient scorer in an iso offense. And, maybe, even, a modified Warriors offense if Kerr was willing, but Kerr says he is not. There’s no doubt that Lacob and Dunleavy wish that Kerr felt differently, but it’s a dysfunctional organization.
Dezpoo said:
> I’m sort of assuming that Kerr will sort of think of a new system that allows
> JK to be the primary next year.
Then you haven’t been listening to what Kerr has been saying publicly since the end of the season: nothing about the system is changing, no special provisions are being made for Kuminga, and Kuminga will leave if he doesn’t.
Warriors should either make him part of the Giannis package, or sign and trade and hold onto him until January when he becomes eligible to be traded and see what superstar is pouting and trade them for each other.
sign and trade and hold..?
Rather, sign and hold then trade as soon as its possible.
Giannis is not get traded to the Warriors.
So much speculation about a player that hasn’t said what he wants.
Best for JK to go to another team, more playing time and somewhere he can actually find and develop his game.
Lots of putrid teams in the East.
He just needs to work on his FT shooting and listen to Jimmy and Draymond, like he was doing. It showed in the playoffs.
He has the tools, just too everywhere on the court at times …… some games he seems content chucking up threes, like it was going out of fashion.
It doesn’t help that it’s Kerr, probably one of the worst coaches when it comes to player development.
Send him out East.
He doesn’t shoot that many 3s. It has been a problem for awhile now.
Well, it looks like the best move for the business is to sign Kuminga to a reasonable contract and then wait till December or the trading deadline to move him if it’s still not working out.
The whole reason why Kuminga doesn’t have a contract is that he refused to sign “a reasonable contract”, and I don’t see him doing it now. GSW was probably hoping to get him on smth like Deni Avdija, 14 mil a year for 5 years, but that is not happening, Kuminga won’t sign a deal like that.
Is he going to become a UFA in a year if he refuses a contract and takes a qualifying offer for 1 season? I think that’s how it works.
Nice way to show your ignorance. The Warriors offered Kuminga $30 million a year. He wanted $35 million. This is publicly known.
Giants, are you referring to my statement? Are you saying I’m showing my ignorance?
Why write abrasive wording? We’re both warrior fans?
What was “commonly known” was that Jonathan Kuminga wanted the max. $30 million I believe is $10 million less per season than the max?
No. I was referring to Peter’s belief that the Warriors offered Kuminga $14 million.
Got it. Cool.
OK, so Peter, if JK doesn’t sign a reasonable contract then you see him signing a max contract somewhere?
Who’s going to give JK $40 million a year? I really don’t think that’s going to happen.
Last summer, Orlando gave Wagner the max, and his stats (per 36 and advanced) were similar if not slightly worse than Kuminga’s. Toronto gave Ingram 3/120. I’d rather have Kuminga than Ingram, probably, but not sure. Green got 3/105 at Houston – I would 100% rather have Kuminga than Green.
Kuminga and his team likely think “I can prove myself just give me the chance”, so the option of taking 3 years on 30+ a year like Green somewhere away from GS must be tempting, and then sign the max.
And the 30 mil thing, at first the reports were that the sides were not even close in negotiations, and then that GS were not willing to go above 30 per. Sounds like what they offered initially was even lower than that. Kuminga clearly felt undervalued during talks, because of minutes played etc.
Also, 30mil for 5 years (which is what GS wanted) is not the same as 30 mil for 3. With the cap going up, in 3, 4, 5 years 30 mil is what decent and even average role players will be making, GS and most teams around the league would love to have somebody of Kuminga’s quality, physicality, age and no serious injury history on that kind of money 3-5 years from now. But Kuminga is planning to be making max by that time, which will be what, 60 million per year?
OK and that’s why I wrote in the very original comment here that the Warriors will probably “sign him to a reasonable contract” which is not the max of 40 but less.., maybe the 30 you’re mentioning, and then go from there.
They can then keep him or trade him after that. I think we’re all on the same page here.
I’m just a little confused by your comments because you’re originally giving JK‘s perspective (“and I don’t see him doing that now”) and now you’re giving the Warriors perspective too?
I see.
To sum up, my understanding and prediction of the situation: GS wanted to sign Kuminga last summer on a 5-year deal for less than 30 per, he was pushing for more. In the end, GS were ok with 5/150. Kuminga didn’t want that, for him it’s likely “how do I make the max as soon as possible, and preferably away from GS”.
Fast forward to today, I think some teams will offer Kuminga 3 years for 100-115mil, and he will sign it in the hope of getting his max soon. GS will not let him go and will match it. He will stay at GS, but on a less team-friendly contract, so the situation is better for him (at least from his perspective, because ofc there are plenty of folk who think he should have taken 5/150). GS will not get what they wanted initially, but will not be left empty-handed.
And then he will be most likely traded, but again, GS will get less for him than they would had he signed a longer-term and more team-friendly deal.
Makes sense. I look forward to seeing how this plays out.
Peter_Cantrope said:
> I think some teams will offer Kuminga 3 years for
> 100-115mil.
In most any other year, I’d agree. But this is the worst off-season in memory to be a free agent because only 1 team, Brooklyn, has cap space.
My best guess: a 2 year deal at $32M/yr because that’s the least risky, and most tradable contract for all 3 parties — GSW, Kuminga, and the eventual destination team
Lacob & Dunleavey have the incentive to offer Kuminga his true market value if they want the option of trading him. If paid more than he’s worth, he can’t be moved. If paid less than he’s worth, he will yield less than he’s worth in return.
It’s also in JK and his agent’s interest in getting the right price since that will enable a trade.
Yeah. My guess is gsw wouldnt mind if they did a cheaper deal over a few years since as long as theres more than one teams interested in his upside would be down, and I doubt they are afraid of paying him in a couple years if it works out and he stays.
Perhaps you are right. But the teams around the league are so inventive, they always find clever ways to sign :)
“But the teams around the league are so inventive, they always find clever ways to sign :) “
So true.
If I am the Warriors I am replacing Kerr with Andre and then getting rid of everyone under 6’6″ on the roster not named Curry. Draymond at the 5 is over, he himself admits it, he has absolutely no way of stopping Wemby or anyone over 7 foot. GSW needs bigs and they need as many of these guys as possible: Giannis, KD, Sabonis, Vucevic, Brook Lopez, Steven Adams, Ben Simmons, Jarrett Allen, Bam Adebayo, Herbert Jones, Isaiah Hartenstein, Walker Kessler, Anthony Davis.
I could see Nets trading away Cam Johnson and signing Kuminga to be a volume scorer on a bad Nets team next season. They own their own ‘26 pick.
2 Separate trades, but agreed in conjunction with each other:
1. Moody, the W’s ‘26 lotto-protected first rounder and a few near-minimum W’s free agents signed and traded for salary matching to the Nets for Cam Johnson.
2. Kuminga signed and traded to the Nets for a few 2nd rounders.
Warriors capped at $207M for next year but they dramatically improve their starting and closing 5 by adding Cam Johnson to their Curry/Draymond/Butler core. All 4
are free agents in two years, lining up a potential summer of ‘27 star free agent pursuit when the books are clean.
Their regular-season C’s would still be Post, Jackson-Davis, maybe Looney re-signed on the cheap, but come playoff time it’s still Draymond at 5 with Buddy Hield or Podz in small lineups.
Free agents in 2027 won’t be great. Out of the 2023 class Wemby, Thompson twins, Brandon Miller will get extended with their teams, for sure. And who else is there?
This summer is actually very good, there are excellent RFAs out there from an amazingly high-quality 2021 draft class – Giddey, Aldama, Cam Thomas, Quentin Grimes, Kuminga himself. And good FAs in Myles Turner, Beasley, Naz Reid, Alexander-Walker.
I think it will be a lot worse in 2027 and especially in 2028 when the weak 2024 draft players will be RFAs.
Summer of ‘27 is Giannis and Jokic if they don’t sign extensions. Both are reasonable flight risks from their incumbent teams too.
Cmon, nobody is picking up Gianni or Big Tipper as FAs in 2027. Players like that don’t just appear in free agency in the modern NBA. Also, these are Europeans, not some Rich Paul agents making trouble and looking to play in Miami because “it has warm weather and I want to play with LeBron!”.
I also expect LeBron’s slot on the Lakers to open up then. Giannis and Luka would make the Lakers the “World’s Team”, and many of us will crawl into a hole.
Draymond has literally said he does not want to play the 5 anymore. He is useless vs 7 footers, he shouldnt be the biggest guy on the floor, GSW must go bigger in order to survive this brutal, lopsided West. Why cant we get rid of east/west and just run 1 big league? Sick of crappy East teams in the playoffs…
Wow some real delusional fans in here.
Use him in a package for Giannas, you don’t have enough assets and can’t combine multiple players in sign and trade offers.
He must stay blah blah blah, there ain’t no way he stays, he wants minutes and to be an all star and Kerr had him benched and wants him to be a Shawn Marion type off ball guy. Unless they agree to overpay him like crazy then I don’t see him wanting to return.
To Charlotte for the 4th… why not draft a guy and save 20mil a season ….
To Sixers for the 3rd… firstly not how the salary cap works. Secondly again why not draft a guy and just save the money….
Brooklyn makes loads of sense cause they have cap space and lack of long term players actually worth building around. Kuminga might not be their main guy but he could be worth developing or using as an asset or something.
Honestly I thought what about Kuminga for Wiggins…
GSW know Wiggins and how he fits in their system and all that. He’s won with them in 22 and would be the ideal 3/4th option and wing defender. As for Miami they get the bigger upside young player. Herro Kuminga Bam Ware Jovic Jacquez they’d have a nice little core there. Plus play style he’s perfect wing/forward athletic, aggressive, hard working and good defender
Otherwise Kuminga for Rob Williams and Thybulle. Add depth and defenders and try save some money idk
Portland needs that ball dominant PF. They are well positioned for a multi team trade, too, if necessary. And based on last years’ draft and with their move with Avdija, I’m thinking they are looking for someone 24 or 25 yrs old with some experience. They have to move Jerami Grant, he’d have to be a part of all of this.
Warriors fans out here saying they want Steven Adams and Brook Lopez and you call them “delusional”. There is simply no situation where you wont say this. Wiggins is a legitimately bad player and his performance on the Heat proves it.
I said there delusion for other things not in relation to those two guys you names but go on….
What’s disingenuous about “Kerr hoping he’d be like Shawn Marion” is that Marion was getting major minutes as a starter in every game for the Suns after his rookie season.
Obviously Kuminga would love to be anywhere else on a team that won’t hold him back.
From the book of Nostradamus: JK will sign and it will be smiles all around. Until game 8, or there about, when JK calls his own number 3 times on plays that Kerr called for Steph. Then it’s back to the end of the bench and wait to be traded before the deadline. Dray and Steph run Floor Operations for the Dubs…
When was JK ever at the end of the bench? Draymond said publicly that he was willing to give up his starting role for Kuminga.
@ Giants74
When? Kerr didn’t even play him in blowouts down the stretch after the Butler trade and didn’t play in 4 playoff games vs the Rockets.
Saying stuff publicly means little. Simmons has been saying for 5 years “I will be more aggressive”.
Draymond has his own ambitions, he’s seen a lot of young players come and go during his time at GS.
I’m a Warriors fan but hope for Kuminga’s sake they let him go. The Warriors just don’t seem capable of developing guys like this properly
Kuminga, Pods and Moody along with a boatload of picks for Giannis?