Trade Candidate: Nerlens Noel

In the months leading up to February’s trade deadline, Hoops Rumors will be taking a closer look at several players we consider trade candidates, discussing their value, speculating on potential destinations, and explaining why they are – or should be – available. These players won’t necessarily be dealt in advance of the deadline, but it won’t be surprising if they are.
Nerlens Noel vertical

Nerlens Noel, F/C
Philadelphia 76ers
2016/17 salary: $4,384,490
Eligible for restricted free agency in 2017
Trade restrictions: None

Since the 2016 offseason began, trade rumors have surrounded Sixers centers Nerlens Noel and Jahlil Okafor, and while those rumblings grew awfully loud around the time of the draft, both Noel and Okafor remain in Philadelphia. The team’s inactivity surprised many observers, including Noel, who kicked off training camp in September by calling the Sixers’ logjam at center “silly” and suggesting that something “needs to happen” to resolve the situation.

“I feel like it definitely needs to be figured out,” Noel said at the time. “I think at the end of the day, again, you have three starting-caliber centers (Noel, Okafor, and Joel Embiid). And it’s just not going to work to anybody’s advantage having that on the same team. That’s how I’m looking at it. I’m not opposed to anything, but things need to be situated.”

The Sixers’ logjam sorted itself out during the first several weeks of the season, as Noel was sidelined after undergoing to a knee procedure, and Embiid and Okafor were on minutes limits due to injury concerns of their own. However, Okafor’s minutes limit has been lifted, Embiid’s has been increased, and Noel appears close to returning to the lineup. With Embiid thriving in his first healthy season, and Noel ready to make his season debut, the 76ers’ frontcourt is more crowded than ever. That fact wasn’t lost on Noel, as Marc Narducci of detailed this week.

Noel’s public griping about the situation in Philadelphia so far has been somewhat subdued — it’s not as if he’s come out and demanded that the Sixers move him. Still, ESPN’s Marc Stein recently suggested that the big man would “prefer to be shipped to a new address,” and Steve Kyler of Basketball Insiders has heard similar whispers.

According to Kyler, all indications are that Noel wants to be traded this season, and the Sixers will do everything they can to accommodate that (Twitter links). If all things were equal, Philadelphia may have a tough call on which player to trade between Noel and Okafor, but Noel “does not want to be there” and would like to have his own situation somewhere, according to Kyler (Twitter links). The only problem? The former sixth overall pick doesn’t currently have a ton of trade value, per Kyler (Twitter link).

At age 22, Noel is still young and has plenty of promise. Last season, in 67 games for the Sixers, he averaged a solid 11.1 PPG, 8.1 RPG, 1.8 SPG, and 1.5 BPG, shooting 52.1% from the floor. Still, there are a few reasons potential suitors will be wary of giving up a whole lot of value to land Noel.

First and foremost, Noel’s injury history is a concern. A torn ACL wiped out his entire NBA rookie season, and another knee injury has kept him out of action so far this season. While the former Kentucky Wildcat doesn’t as extensive a history of health problems as his teammate Embiid, clubs will want to see him get back on the floor this season to make sure he looks 100% before anything happens on the trade front.

When Noel does get back on the court, teams will keep an eye on his continued development at both ends of the floor. Known for his defense, rebounding, and rim-protecting ability, Noel has the potential to be a Defensive Player of the Year candidate in his prime, and that type of player remains very valuable in today’s NBA. On the other end of the floor though, his offensive game is extremely limited. It’s worth watching to see if he shows improvement on offense, but possible trade partners for the Sixers will have to take Noel’s current limitations into account.

Finally, Noel’s contract situation will play a big part in upcoming trade talks. On one hand, a young player still on his rookie contract has plenty of appeal — any team conscious of cutting costs will love that Noel is only earning about $4.384MM this season. Since he’s in the fourth and final year of his rookie deal though, Noel is about to get much more expensive. Eligible for restricted free agency in July, Noel could command an annual salary exceeding $20MM on a new deal, given the free agent prices we saw this past summer for older centers with less upside such as Timofey Mozgov and Ian Mahinmi.

Noel’s looming free agency makes it tricky for certain teams to construct a deal that makes sense. The Trail Blazers, for instance, could use a big man with Noel’s skill set, and the Sixers’ ability to take on some extra salary would benefit Portland in the short term. But could the Blazers afford to extend Noel next summer, considering the club already has nearly $130MM in guaranteed money on its books for 2017/18? Sending a big contract or two to the Sixers would help reduce that number, but an extension for Noel would likely put the franchise right back in tax territory.

Teams like the Raptors and Warriors would be in the same boat as Portland, facing financial challenges when it comes to extending Noel, but both teams would be solid fits for the young big. Toronto could offer a package that includes Terrence Ross, while Golden State could perhaps offer Ian Clark, Kevon Looney, and/or draft picks.

Of course, the Celtics have long been mentioned as a potential landing spot for Noel, and Boston could use a shot-blocker in the middle. Despite the C’s wealth of assets though, GM Danny Ainge may be reluctant to part with some of them for Noel until he determines whether he needs to hang onto all of them to pull off a bigger trade for a star. If no star-level player is available, perhaps the C’s get more serious about someone line Noel. The Sixers would likely target a guard such as Avery Bradley or Marcus Smart.

One intriguing potential trade partner for Philadelphia is the Suns. Phoenix has the cap flexibility to comfortably afford a long-term contract for Noel, and the team has a crowded backcourt at the moment, with starters Eric Bledsoe and Devin Booker pushing Brandon Knight to the bench. It’s not clear if the Sixers would have interest in Knight, but he’s under contract through 2019/20 at a reasonable rate ($14.125MM per year) and could provide the sort of backcourt scoring punch Philadelphia has been lacking.

Ultimately, Noel is right that the Sixers’ logjam at center is untenable, and with his contract set to expire at season’s end, Philadelphia will likely have to move him by the deadline to recoup some value for him. Even if the team only gets 50 cents on the dollar, that’s a better outcome than losing Noel for nothing next summer, since it doesn’t appear as if he has a long-term future in Philadelphia.

What do you think? Should the Sixers trade or keep Noel? Weigh in below in the comments section with your thoughts and possible trade ideas.

Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.

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116 thoughts on “Trade Candidate: Nerlens Noel

  1. Noel and Covington to the Timberwolves for Shabazz Muhammad and a 2019 first round pick.

    • They need a pg tyus jones and shabazz for noel and there first pick need more trade chips to find established talent to mix with young nucleus in minnesota. I would like to think guys like shumpert and beverly could be had at cheap trade price wolves need defense first players to mix in with dynamic scorers. If both those two can be had forget noel start shump have lavine play big bench minutes next to d first pg like beverly man that would be nice

      • TheFrenchFreak

        Jones and Shabazz might not even be enough for Noel to be honest. No way we’re adding a first rounder

      • The Rockets aren’t going to trade their starting PG for cheap. Beverley fits perfectly next to Harden because of his defense, so the Rockets would need to get a quality player to trade him. Cleveland might be willing to trade Shump for cap relief, but at the same time, he’s an important rotation player and the Cavs would want a rotation player back who can fill in on the wing. Point is, neither player is going to be had for cheap.

      • Trust the process... lol

        You must be drunk.. Sixers wouldn’t do Noel for Tyus Jones and seabass straight up. Let alone throw in our 1st rounder which will be top 3??? Tyus is a 2nd round pk backup PG. And sixers don’t want another big….

        Noel and a future top 10 protected first and a bench player for Levine….

  2. Wasn’t there some interest from the Raps?
    Noel can fill that rim protector role that Toronto lost when Biyombo left. Maybe the discussion starts with Ross going back to philly??

      • TheFrenchFreak

        As a Sixer I’d take that. Not sure Ujiri would give up on Poeltl just yet

        • ThePriceWasRight

          not sure you need poeltl if you have Noel Jonas and Patterson siakam and a draft pick.

          • TheFrenchFreak

            Fair point. There’s Sully too!
            It was just that trading Poeltl now would be selling a bit low

    • TheFrenchFreak

      I think Smart is enough. As a Sixers fan I’d take him straight up for Noel, although Noel is the better player atm

  3. DarkGhost

    Suns make sense. They want to get rid of brandon knight and Alex Len so bad it hurts. Noel and a future first for knight, and Len. May have to thrown other players in depending on salaries and such.

      • DarkGhost

        I don’t see Bledsoe as part of the deal. Suns defiantly want to keep him

        • And agreed, the Suns aren’t trading Bledsoe for Noel. That is a terrible trade.

          • Bledsoe is hurt as much as Embiid and Noel… good player but we need healthy guys if we’re ever gonna be any good again one day

      • TheFrenchFreak

        Better as of now maybe, more valuable no. There are too many guards in the league and not enough rim protectors, let alone guys like Noel with that defensive ability

    • Rubio is worth more than Noel at the moment. Need to atleast add Covington. And I still probably wouldn’t do it if I were the wolves.

      • Kenweas

        For those who havent heard B Simmons will be playing pg so the need is for a scoring combo guard, Rubio wouldn’t fit

    • Smoke

      Rubio is a horrendous player for sixers to target. Simmons is playing pg for the sixers for the next 10 years. They need combo guards who can shoot and play off guard. And Rubio does not add as much value to a team as Noel and his rim protection/defense.

    • Not the right kind of player they need. He can’t shoot or play D at all. Simmons will be the point so whoever is gonna be running with him has to be able to get buckets and D-up the other teams PG

    • Ayy-Aron

      Agreed with LA, but who do you give up? It would have to be something like Nance, and either Russell or Clarkson. Neither of which I think would be wise to give up…

      • Robby Bonfire

        Clarkson, take note, has badlly regressed this season. Not a player to covet in trade talks, right now and until he gets his head back into the games.

        • What numbers are you looking at? Clarkson’s numbers have barely changed. The only thing that is different is that he no longer starts. And Russell has much more value than Noel (so a Nance and Russell for Noel deal is a steal for the 76ers and an overpay for the Lakers, and something they would never do) and Clarkson has just about as much value as Noel. Using the players listed above, a Lakers deal for Noel would be Clarkson-for-Noel with maybe minor pieces thrown on each side or Russell-for-Noel plus a 76ers first round pick.

  4. smittybanton

    Noel can block shots at the rim. But he can’t keep bigs from getting there in the first place. Guys like Vucevic and even Luis Scola abuse Noel regularly. On the other hand, I’ve never seen a 7footer scare the heck out of point guards. Guys like Michael Conley and Kyle Lowry pick up their dribble and pass when Nerlens is on them. He’ll never reach his potential until he realizes he is in fact a defensive savant all over the court–and thus could play behind and with Embiid. There is nothing MKG does better at the small forward spot than Nerlens Noel. But he doesn’t see it, and wants out. So let him.

    Mavs 1st rd pick, straight up.

    In case folks haven’t heard, Ben Simmons is the Sixers’ point guard. So if the deal is with the Warriors, its gotta include Patrick McCaw.

    • Unless the pick is for this year, Noel for the Mavs pick is a bad deal for the 76ers. If it is this year, the Mavs are giving up too much considering their struggles and chances to get a better player in the draft with their pick.

    • Caio Silotti

      Noel in Oakland? GSW already has 3 C in rotation and more Damian Jones in recovery, so what else a C? Even more to McCaw or Clark and Looney. Best option for warriors would be Zaza + Clark x Noel

    • TheFrenchFreak

      Yeah get an elite defender for two scrubs…. add in your first rounder if you want to unload McRoberts haha

    • Trust the process... lol

      Waiters was interested in coming home to philly as a FA this summer and sixers didn’t even contact him. They don’t want him at all.

    • The level of crack use while people talk rock amazes me!!!! Waiters and McRoberts yo, I know you not serious. Noel ain’t an all-star or nothing but he could be a legit 15ppg 10rpg 3bpg guy. Not to mention he plays man to man D well too. He can pick you for 2spg… Them Heat cats, BUMMMMS!!!!

  5. Joeycalexc

    Should trade okafor instead. Can only play low post offense. A liability in every other aspect. Trade okafor and roco who stinks to get a starting guard

  6. Tyler Affeld

    Milwaukee gets Robert Covington and Nerlens Noel
    Philadelphia gets Greg Monroe and Rashad Vaughn

    • Eddie Scarito

      I don’t think adding Monroe helps Philly, given its glut of frontcourt players. I’d posit that the Sixers will likely try to add a wing or backcourt depth when/if moving Noel. However, if he hasn’t soured on Philly too much, I think keeping Noel and trading Okafor would be a wiser move for the franchise. Noel and Embiid could form an effective tandem for the team if it could add more shooters who can create their own opportunities. Especially if Embiid can continue to expand his range.

    • Robby Bonfire

      Great trade recommendation, for Philadelphia. Milwaukee has no idea of what they have in Monroe. Vaughn may have an upside but even if he bombs, Monroe makes this deal a winner for Philly.

      • TheFrenchFreak

        You have to be kidding. Sixers don’t need another Jahlil Okafor. If any of our bigs is traded it’s for a wing or a guard.
        People underrate Noel’s defensive ability, he has first-team all defense written all over him. The only why his value is that low is that we have a logjam and he’s been vocal about leaving

        • Robby Bonfire

          OK4 and Monroe may be similar in ~style~, but Monroe is vastly a more complete and productive player, at this stage, with OK4 having upside, yes, but we don’t know if he will ever engage in off the ball play?

          Of course our stockpiling up front leads to at least one more trade, hopefully for a decent SG. This would also allow us to move Stauskas and/or Henderson along. They are plugs in a bath tub, at best.

    • Robby Bonfire

      Getting Monroe alone, makes that deal a steal. The Bucks don’t seem to know what they have in Monroe. He could and should be starting for 20-25 teams in this league.

      By the way, more rumors re a Wiggings trade are popping up and we are mentioned as a possible destination for this stone monument who cannot get to the letter “D” in the alphabet. I would trade, within reason, for Wiggins, just to flip him to the Knicks or any other sap team that still overvalues him. All he has left is being young, because he is not productive, on an efficiency basis, in any facet of the game – what with 3 DR’s per 40, a derelict dish off game, and hot and cold shooting like any other journeyman. I was the ONE voice about how selfish and limited this hot dog was, when he was coming out of college where he bypassed feeding Joel Embiid passes (2 assists per 40 in conference play) from his SG position. Good luck, whoever takes the bait on this crow bait.

  7. I don’t get it, Noel isn’t even playing and embiid is on a minutes restriction. There is plenty of playing time to go around right now. Haven’t even seen them play together.
    This shouldn’t even be a discussion till next offseason. Don’t know why Noel is so worried, no team is in any position to give him more playing time.

    • Luke Adams

      Noel is a free agent next offseason though, so if the Sixers wait that long, they’re probably in a position where they either lose him for nothing or have to match a huge offer sheet from another team.

    • thedude

      They also have 3 centers that could pretty much start on any team. Embiid’s restrictions should be lifted soon, and since he’s putting up all-star numbers playing only 20 mins, he’s probably gonna be the one they want to keep. Okafor is insurance, an Noel thinks it’s stupid to have that much talent at one position.

    • thedude

      Celtics should send them Marcus Smart straight up. Smart would fill their need for a starting PG.

      • Kenweas

        Why do C fans keep saying this, B Simmons will be the PG, smart would not fit, need is for a scoring combo guard

        • Breyon

          Wait for a guard and get ball from ucla the modern day kid trade him for ross and a draft pick keep covington till next year and if he still inconsistent send him packing or you can do a package deal Washington wanted to get rid of wall or go for devin booker

          • Robby Bonfire

            Don’t be a sap for the Booker, Wiggins, Klay Thompson crowd of selfish, turnover prone, hot and cold shooting ball hogs. Check out their DR’s per 40, their assists per 40, their total points divided by missed floor shots, and most of all, with the guards, Booker and Thompson, check out their assists per ~missed~ floor shots (then check out James Harden in that respect), and with the SF Wiggins, check out his DR’s per missed floor shot – and brother you might just be horrified and come to the realization that these are NOT team players, these are selfish s.o.b’s who just gun the ball up, and miss far too many shots, for the total of points they score.

            Best example is Klay Thompson scoring 60 points, BUT missing 23 shots from the floor and committing five turnovers, while adding just three assists along the way. You can buy into hot dog players like this all day and night, I prefer to grade players on efficiency and production, not “style points.”

      • Robby Bonfire

        Smart CANNOT shoot straight, and maybe you should look up his record given you do not seem to know that? Another sieve at SG (not PG, that is for Simmons) we do not need. We have nearly a lock on enfeebled SG’s in our division, starting with Henderson and that faint-hearted Stauskas.

  8. Robby Bonfire

    At some point this team has to stop deferring winning and just go for it now. Continuing to stockpile assets, with Embiid, and soon Simmons here, starts to become a broken record.

    Just get rid of The Coach From Hell, and get rid of the plugs like Thompson, Stauskas, and Covington and put a top-to-bottom decent roster in place, why don’t you.

    • So you expect that just instantly the 76ers are going to turn their team into a perennial contender? Brown has hardly been “The Coach From Hell”, up until this season, he’s had basically no NBA-caliber players on his roster. But I assume you can definitely do better right?

      • Robby Bonfire

        Brown is the worst strategy and tactics coach in the history of the NBA. Not only that, but he gives his lousiest players – Covington, Hollis Thompson, and that God-awful lazy bum Stauskas more playing time than some other decent players on the roster, starting with giving the outstanding two-way player Ric Holmes, barely 10 minutes a game. Philly just lost a game to Boston by one point, a game in which Stauskas was given 32 minutes of playing time, and was, by far, the worst starter on the court. Making a case in defense of Brett Brown is one difficult thing to do, but you are doing your best, I take it, as Brown’s first cousin, no doubt. Even his family knows he is a joke.

        • Stauskas had his minutes bumped because Covington and bayless couldn’t play giving us a shortage on the wing. He also has improved significantly this season since he expanded his game and learned to drive to the hoop. So much so that up until recently he led the nba in fg percentage. Although I agree he is a not a 30 mpg player, given the circumstances they had no other options, thus the reason Noel/okafor must be traded for a wing.
          On a side note, in the back of my mind I keep thinking this Simmons playing point guard talk is all an attempt to reduce the perceived notion of our logjam with the bigs to increase value for a trade. Via “if Simmons is playing pg they aren’t as desperate so we won’t charge them as much for one”. Any opinions?

          • Robby Bonfire

            Stauskas popped out of the ether for a few games, but now is back in the tank. Here is a stinker of a lackadaisical player with ZERO upside. BC is horribly remiss in not moving Stauskas and Covington along. And Hollis too, although Hollis puts forth effort and is marginally improved this year, something you cannot say as regards Stauskas and Covington. So long as BC coddles downside “project” players we are supposed to believe are “developing” we are not getting to the next level.

          • Robby Bonfire

            Good point re the posturing at PG of Simmons for trade value purposes. Simmons in college was a lights out shooter from TWO in conference (55 per cent). We don’t know what he brings from THREE at PG, at this time. If he cannot develop and outside shot, he should be put back on the front line.

      • Robby Bonfire

        What – four years of abysmal futility is INSTANTLY where you come from? We fans are supposed to put the present on hold in deference to the future for what – 10 years of Brett Brown and a milquetoast General Manager?

  9. weezlur11

    Philly values Noel way higher than 85% of the teams in the league because he looks decent when comparing him to the guys around him. He is going to get far less playing time if he goes anywhere else. 76ers asking way to much, I’m guessing he stays there and becomes free agent.

  10. My TTisbig

    Better chance the Lakers trade someone like Clarkson straight up for Noel.

    • Robby Bonfire

      Clarkson is one of the most over-rated players in the NBA. He is not a productive cog in the machine.

  11. JFactor

    Is it unrealistic for all three to play PF/C about 32 minutes each? And rotate minutes a little based on performance?

    And then Simmons is their 3?

    • Luke Adams

      They could try it, but Noel/Okafor didn’t really complement one another that well when they played together last year, and Embiid hasn’t played extensively with either guy yet — it’s not clear if any pairing would have a lot of success. Plus, if you do that, you rule out lineups with basically anyone else (Richaun Holmes, Dario Saric, Ersan Ilyasova, Simmons, etc.) playing at the 4/5.

  12. Clutch city94

    I don’t follow philly to much but with Simmons gonna be the point they could really could use a guy like j.j. Reddik a 3 and d shooting guard

  13. RipCityLos

    Allen Crabbe, Meyers Leonard & a (CLE’s) 1st rnd. pick for Noel & Covington.

    • Robby Bonfire

      Crabbe is an awful shooter, plus an off the ball disaster. Philly acquires him it will be proof that this G.M. will never take this team to the next level, I don’t care who they land in the draft. The coach is already the biggest court side disaster the fans of Philly have ever suffered. The owner is trying to sell this team. This team is mired in quicksand until that happens.

    • Not nearly enough. Clark is, at best, a backup combo guard. The 2018 1st round pick is basically an early second rounder. And Looney, despite his potential, hasn’t proven much. Plus, his inclusion just further clogs up their frontcourt situation. So you’re talking a backup guard, an early second rounder, and a young guy with potential but no clear playing time available for Noel (an established rim-protecting big).

      • Gwydion

        Maybe on another team, but on the Sixers, Clark is your best guard the moment he steps on the floor. Btw, I don’t think that 2018 1st can be traded. Don’t bag on Looney. Kid is still getting his feet wet and he can do a lot of the stuff Dray does.

        • Robby Bonfire

          Looney stays healthy – which is the major question, he is a steal for whoever bags him. Lights out shooter with a solid floor game. Like to have him here in Philadelphia, along with McCaw.

          • Rhys Wade

            Looney has had issues with both hips, but seems fine now. If I was a Sixer fan, I’d want McCaw, too. Another late round steal. Why have the Sixers ignored their backcourt for so long? That’s the one part of the process I don’t get.

  14. Bill Farally

    Sounds like a lot of people r overvaluing Noel. Expiring contract and very limited offensive skills will not get them a lot in return

  15. Portland will give up bieber i mean Myers Leonard and 2 second round draft picks lol

  16. Rubio may get in the passing lanes for the occasional steal but don’t try to tell me he’s some great defender. That does not equate to good defense. If that was the case his value would be much higher. He’s a solid overall player with an extremely high IQ when it comes to passing…. so you gotta look at the big picture before you call yourself calling someone out. You invalidate yourself with corny stuff like that

  17. CoolC

    6ers need Zach Levine…give T’Wolves Noel and the kings pick we have
    no clarkson or knight…we need someone who can shoot the 3 and jump out of the building…..

    • Robby Bonfire

      Yes on Noel for Zach. This is a doable deal. Zach is not a complete player yet, but will almost surely outlast Noel in this league and has more upside. In fact, Noel has little upside from what he has shown, so far.

      • Gwydion

        You know the TWolves, while young, aren’t exactly hurting at center. Noel would be a backup to Towns at best. Trading LaVine for Noel would be a backwards move.

    • Rhys Wade

      Do you mean Klay or Tristan? No way Noel gets you Klay, no matter how much the Dubs need a center. Doubt the Cavs would do Tristan either.

      • Robby Bonfire

        Klay is not an efficient shooter, plus he turns the ball over a lot for someone who is bypasses on offensive sets, so much. Vastly over-rated, they should trade him for value and plug McCaw into that position, tout de suit, understanding that McCaw is all “upside” right now, and not yet an established NBA guard. With a core of Curry, Green and KD, the Warriors can win another the NBA crown in their sleep, given how dumping Klay will actually make them a better team. And look up his record before you just reflexively bark back at me. Starting with how he was not the best player on the floor the night he scored 60 points. Look at how many shots he missed (23), look at his five apple turnovers, and look at his stat line = 3 assists. Sorry, Klay Thompson is the wrong number for whoever acquires him.

  18. Robby Bonfire

    Responding to tell me you cannot respond is, well – responding.

    Hey, I am open to your perspective on the subject, if you want to add something to the dialogue?

    • Gwydion

      BTW, Robby, I’m Rhys posting under my usual web name, in case you’re wondering who Gwydion is. You’re making a lot out of a box score line that you misread. In that 60 game, Klay had the ball in his hands for 88 SECONDS. If that’s not efficient…

  19. Gwydion

    Okay, I’m out in California and I’ve been a Warriors fan since the early 80’s (just to get my prejudices out of the way). Klay is an excellent defender and he brings that every night. He’s not a great assist guy, but that’s not really his role. Does he have cold shooting nights? Yeah, but unlike some guys, he doesn’t try to shoot himself out of it to the detriment of the team. BTW, you should go back and check the stat line for that 60 point game. He was 21-33. He didn’t miss 21 shots, he missed 12. You must be thinking of Kobe’s last game.

    • Robby Bonfire

      Good catch. Sloppy on my part, the numbers I gave you were for a recent game for Russell Westbrook, and yes, RW did go 12-35 from the floor with five turnovers and just three assists. That is 28 “strikes” by my count. The media was all over the “triple-double” story line, so I felt compelled to point out the deficiencies in his over all game.

      Now, as regards Klay Thompson, a couple observations…

      First he and that fraud Andrew Wiggins tied, one season ago, for the lowest rate for NBA guards of 23 assists per missed floor shots. This is not a conventional stat, it is my stat, as am interested in isolating the team-first guards in this league, from the ME-FIRST/TEAM LAST guards in this league who are gunners, who miss far too many shots for the number of points they score, and who contribute next to nothing off the ball.

      For offensive efficiency, my incisive indicator is PPX, that is total points scored divided by missed shots from the floor. So far this season Klay is at a decent but not great 2.34. Curry is at 2.86. For forwards, KD – the REAL MVP so far this season, is at a blistering 3.47. LeBron, a year ago, finished at 2.83.

      So that I have Klay Thompson down as a fair efficiency shooter ,but a net deficit as regards zips per 40 (DR’s + assists + steals + blocks), and a wash-out as a team-last player as is evidenced by his hot shot gunner mentality, and his current rate of just 22 assists per 100 MISSED shots from the floor. I should mention that in this assists per missed shot category, a year ago the two leading guards in the NBA were Harden at 67 assists per 100 floor misses; and Curry at 66.

      I am a Philly fan, and believe me, selfish players like Wiggins, Klay Thompson, and Devon Booker and that abominable Buddy Hield I do not want to see acquired by our myopic G.M. who signed bench-warmer Gerald Henderson and made a starter out of him in Philadelphia. It could take another millennium before we get to the next level.

      By the way, the best quick scan formula I know of for instant player evaluation on merit, is called Game Score. (Add turnovers to the total of missed floor shots and put on memory. Then add zips and total points and multiply this result by memory. So far this season KD is off the chart at 124. Wiggins, by the way, is at 29 because he does not do a damn thing, off the ball and has devolved into becoming a mediocre, hot and cold shooter. Minny has lost a bushel of close games with Wiggins screwing up the win, this season.)

      • Gwydion

        Well, as I said, Klay’s not a big assist guy, but beyond that, I doubt you’d find too many teams that would turn him down if offered. Actually none. And I’d have to object to Klay being called a selfish player. A selfish player forces shots and won’t pass. Neither is true for Klay. He’s a willing passer, it’s just most of his passes aren’t for assists. Everybody passes on the Warriors. We don’t have any black holes. That, and the fact that we have great shooters is why we have such a great offense. There’s very little ISO offense. And believe me, no one thinks Klay is a bad teammate or wants him traded.

        BTW-I would totally agree regarding Westbrook. KD won’t say it, but I think the reason he left OKC was Westbrook’s mismanagement of late game situations. He puts up great numbers, but I see no sign he know how to run a team.

        Harden, on the other hand, has been really impressive now that he’s playing the point. He’s such s ball hog, Houston should have made the switch years ago.

        • Robby Bonfire

          Harden had great PG numbers when he was at SG. How often do you see that?

          The reason I like my assists per 100 missed floor shots ratio/stat, is because it evens the playing field between PG’s and SG’s, and this is important because we know PG’s handle the ball a lot more and have that many more opportunities to score points and rack up assists.

          The revealing results I get from this stat really turn me off re players like Klay, Wiggins, Booker, and Hield who are “flashy” players, but not all around productive players. Wiggins has regressed this season, at a time when many thought he would be getting his all around game together. He even said he needed to pull down more rebounds, before the season started, but he is still mired at the rate of 3 DR’s per 40. Thanks for your input.

          • Gwydion

            Yeah, but Robby, you’re completely wrong about Klay. I’m not saying anything about Wiggins or Booker except they’re both young guys charged with carrying bad teams. It’s a mistake to judge any player entirely on one stat. If there is one stat that covers most things, it’s plus/minus, but even that is misleading based on how good your team is. Metrics aren’t everything.

            BTW-I’ve enjoyed this conversation with you. We’ve managed to do it without descending into name calling which is really rare on these boards. Kudos to you.

  20. Robby Bonfire

    Let’s talk about Wiggins a little bit. If you want to do some interesting research, check out the box score of all the close Minnesota losses this year, and at the same time, scan Wiggins’ derelict floor game production – DR’s, assists, steals and blocks, and you will start to grasp WHY Minny is losing so many close games, and the fact that it is because Wiggins is one lazy-ass bricklayer who refuses to get expend the effort to help his team win games. All he wants to do is shoot the ball and not be bothered with making the effort and the sacrifice players on a team have to do to win the close games.

    If that is not enough, Wiggins averaged just TWO assists per 40 at Kansas in conference play with Joel Embiid as his center. In fact, Wiggins deliberately kept the ball away from Embiid to hold down Joel’s production numbers and ensure his being taken first in the draft that year.

    Finally, check out Wiggins’ rate of assists per 100 missed shots from the floor. Only one player I know of in the NBA this year is doing worse – Hezonja – who is a total wash-out Euro-Klutz, from the looks of it.

    Andrew Wiggins is the most selfish, over-rated player in the history of the NBA, and when Minny trades him, you will see the T-Wolves start winning consistently and come together as a team.

  21. Honestly why are people mentioning the Warriors? They don’t have the players or the cap space. Nobody wants their backups. I think that expecting Simmons to play PG without help is wrong. There’s also a chance he may not even be back this year.

  22. The T-Wolves already have KAT and Dieng as bigs. They aren’t trading half a year of Noel for anything good. Especially since they won’t resign him. The Mavs may be an option.

  23. Robby Bonfire

    Nobody wants the Warriors back-ups? Well, I want McCaw in Philadelphia where we do not have one, single upside or talented SG; and I want Looney, a lights out shooter/scorer who is too good to waste away on anybody’s bench. For these two you can have Covington, Stuaskas, Henderson, Thompson, Saric, Ilyasova and TLC, our latest Euro-bust, with Korkmaz, waiting in the wings, an even bigger defensive sieve than Stauskas.


    So many of these comments include a Center. that is already the problem to many bigs. I think Noel going to PHX, NO, DAL, or CHI might be what’s best for Noel but I don’t see the pieces fitting well in a trade for PHY. Maybe Knight and Tucker or Warren for Noel (no picks, or a second round) could work. I think Noel hasn’t shown what he can really do yet, but currently hasn’t done enough to be so valuable not with the bank he will get next year. Personally I’d like to see him play next to fellow Kentucky Wildcat Anthony Davis but I don’t see the pieces they can offer to get him.

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